The Positive Brexit Thread

[horsefly 4,273]

Good to see that brexit has been so successful at regaining control of our borders:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ex-border-force-boss-warns-migrant-influx-is-ongoing-process-and-uk-isn-t-coping/ar-AAKM7g8?ocid=msedgdhp

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Panic stations as the country suffers from a shortage of camping and garden equipment.

Not from UK manufacturers, but from China.

Not enough containers. Backlog after the Suez Canal blockage. And demand that is outstripping orders.

So they prattle on about Trade Deals but the public will dictate consumerism. 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 05/06/2021 at 14:13, SwindonCanary said:

A Reuters poll of analysts published on April 13 showed an average forecast for growth of 5.0% in the UK, the world's fifth-biggest economy, in 2021. The International Monetary Fund has projected a 5.3% expansion.

you are talking from a position of a country that is held up by a shoestring made up of arms deals to countries who have no crux with human rights. A decline in western neo liberalism, democracy and justice that is expressed in fixing the gold price, offshoring monies that have bypassed the exchequer and determined to rather have another world war than to engage in a genuine global cooperation.

You are of a fraudulent persuasion tweety pie, shutting libraries and stopping free speech will not shut minds or stop words and making up economic figures according to a world view that is defunct, will not do for our children.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,180]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Good to see that brexit has been so successful at regaining control of our borders:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ex-border-force-boss-warns-migrant-influx-is-ongoing-process-and-uk-isn-t-coping/ar-AAKM7g8?ocid=msedgdhp

The UK is stealing  French illegal immigrants, apparently 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

SKY News saying that many believe the Irish Border problem is the EUs fault. 

So its their fault we left. Its their fault we want to renege on the agreement. Its their fault that we are clinging onto NI, a 100 years after partition, and we haven't been able to let it go back to its original owners.

Why is it they are prepared to believe all these ongoing lies yet if Biden or the EU says we are wrong, then they are portrayed as the liars?

[SwindonCanary 455]

24 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

SKY News saying that many believe the Irish Border problem is the EUs fault

TRUE !

[horsefly 4,273]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

TRUE !

Remind us who signed the deal which included the NI protocol.

[SwindonCanary 455]

12 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Remind us who signed the deal which included the NI protocol.

Boris signed it, but did not realize that the EU would want to punish us by their many checks 

[horsefly 4,273]

5 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Boris signed it, but did not realize that the EU would want to punish us by their many checks 

So he signed a deal that said there was a requirement for custom checks on certain goods, but is now complaining that the EU require those custom checks to be carried out. So basically you are admitting that Boris is an idiot. At last you have got something right.

And btw, they haven't even begun to enact the full range of checks yet.

Edited June 7, 2021 by horsefly

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Remind us who signed the deal which included the NI protocol.

Exactly, and the only way that the EU are in any way 'at fault' is in giving the UK the deal that Johnson and Frost asked for.

Theresa May's deal was an extremely poor deal but Johnson was so determined that 'he' would be the one to negotiate the deal that actually went ahead that he asked for, and got from the EU, an even worse deal than we already had.

Johnson and Frost are the only people responsible, but primarily Johnson both because he set the parameters, he signed of the deal and then he told a series of bare-faced lies about what the deal actually entailed - lies which the Brexit numpties, including many of his own MPS believed and voted for, only to realise that Johnson had taken them for fools when (far too late) they actually got round to reading the deal.

Idiots and liars leading liars and idiots - typical Brexiteers deceiving other Brexiteers too stupid to realise that they were being made mugs of to feed Johnson's ego.

[SwindonCanary 455]

4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

And btw, they haven't even begun to enact the full range of checks yet

They have over done the checks !

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

7 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Boris signed it, but did not realize that the EU would want to punish us by their many checks 

Yes he did - he had been told it quite clearly, by the EU themselves and by the UK civil service advisers and by the UK media (or at least the parts of the UK that report factually which of course excludes the fairy tales published by the Express, Mail & Torygraph).

If you don't believe me then perhaps you should ask yourself why Johnson has consistenly refused (both before and after signing) to have the Treasury produce even the most basic impact assessment of the deal - this is standard routine procedure on major public projects, budgets and trade deals yet on the biggest change to our trading arrangements for 40 years there is absolutely nothing for the very simple reason that Johnson knew any reasonable assessment of the deal would make very grim reading.

What Boris thought, because he is an idiot and a lazy one at that, was that he could sign a deal with the EU and then simply ignore the parts of it that he didn't much like and not implement them. That approach, along with his subsequent attempts to break international law, were very quickly shot to pieces not just by the EU but also the US, who have both told the idiot Johnson in no uncertain terms that he has to stand by the deal that he requested and signed - his fault and his problem to fix, and since he has done pretty much everything he can to p*ss the EU off he certainly won't be getting any help or favours from them.

[horsefly 4,273]

7 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

They have over done the checks !

What is it about contract law that you don't understand? Boris signed this deal and the deal contained the requirement for these checks. The reality is that the EU hasn't even applied all the checks the deal actually requires. The true regime of customs checks is far more onerous. When will you happy-clapping brexiteers get it through your thick skulls that this is what you voted for. It's YOU and your ignorant fellow brexiteers that are responsible for this, NOT the EU. You were told time and again that this would be the outcome of voting for brexit but you chose to ram your fingers in your ears and hum Rule Britannia to drown out the truth. Welcome to the shi*t storm that you created.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

I'm really guessing that SC (or Frost or Johnson) has never known the joy of customs declarations forms, import, export issues or frankly been trusted with anything officious. 'Winging it' just doesn't fly (literally).

That probably explains the Brexit fiasco. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

look at trade between Switzerland and the EU why hardly any checks 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

On 05/06/2021 at 15:13, SwindonCanary said:

A Reuters poll of analysts published on April 13 showed an average forecast for growth of 5.0% in the UK, the world's fifth-biggest economy, in 2021. The International Monetary Fund has projected a 5.3% expansion.

The UK isn't even the world's biggest economy any more so I wouldn't get too excited about that report.

It's true to say that pretty much all economists are predicting (what in normal times) would be a pretty good recovery in the UK but again I wouldn't get too excited about that either because the plunge in the UK economy last year was by far the worst of the major economies so unfortunately we have a lot more ground\slack to make up than some of our competitors and whether it is 5% or 5.3% we wouldn't be back to pre-pandemic levels for some time.

[Herman 9,696]

3 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

look at trade between Switzerland and the EU why hardly any checks 

There are some checks but they also have a lot of treaties and agreements. Please do a tiny bit of research. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

10 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

look at trade between Switzerland and the EU why hardly any checks 

Of course not you idiot - because they have bi-lateral agreements which don't require many checks.

But Johnson choose and asked for an agreement that required an awful lot of checks - or controlling our borders as the idiot likes to call it 🙄

Maybe if he or you had listened to some of us he would have understood the difference between the two although in practice I think he just didn't give a t*ss about the details as long it was him signing the treaty - the big I am.

As indeed he is, the big idiot 😂

Edited June 7, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

40 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes he did - he had been told it quite clearly, by the EU themselves and by the UK civil service advisers and by the UK media (or at least the parts of the UK that report factually which of course excludes the fairy tales published by the Express, Mail & Torygraph).

If you don't believe me then perhaps you should ask yourself why Johnson has consistenly refused (both before and after signing) to have the Treasury produce even the most basic impact assessment of the deal - this is standard routine procedure on major public projects, budgets and trade deals yet on the biggest change to our trading arrangements for 40 years there is absolutely nothing for the very simple reason that Johnson knew any reasonable assessment of the deal would make very grim reading.

What Boris thought, because he is an idiot and a lazy one at that, was that he could sign a deal with the EU and then simply ignore the parts of it that he didn't much like and not implement them. That approach, along with his subsequent attempts to break international law, were very quickly shot to pieces not just by the EU but also the US, who have both told the idiot Johnson in no uncertain terms that he has to stand by the deal that he requested and signed - his fault and his problem to fix, and since he has done pretty much everything he can to p*ss the EU off he certainly won't be getting any help or favours from them.

Of course all of that is true, but if millions  of voters believed the Leave lies (many created by BoJo the Clown) about the EU being the villain in the relationship with the UK then they will probably buy the BoJo the Clown lie that now it is the EU causing all the problems with the Irish Sea border.

[Well b back 3,180]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Of course all of that is true, but if millions  of voters believed the Leave lies (many created by BoJo the Clown) about the EU being the villain in the relationship with the UK then they will probably buy the BoJo the Clown lie that now it is the EU causing all the problems with the Irish Sea border.

Biden’s not buying it.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

43 minutes ago, horsefly said:

What is it about contract law that you don't understand? Boris signed this deal and the deal contained the requirement for these checks. The reality is that the EU hasn't even applied all the checks the deal actually requires. The true regime of customs checks is far more onerous. When will you happy-clapping brexiteers get it through your thick skulls that this is what you voted for. It's YOU and your ignorant fellow brexiteers that are responsible for this, NOT the EU. You were told time and again that this would be the outcome of voting for brexit but you chose to ram your fingers in your ears and hum Rule Britannia to drown out the truth. Welcome to the shi*t storm that you created.

You are presuming knowledge of the existence of such a thing as contract law. Truthfully, you need to go way further back to the very basic first principles of understanding if you are going to make any headway here...

[horsefly 4,273]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

You are presuming knowledge of the existence of such a thing as contract law. Truthfully, you need to go way further back to the very basic first principles of understanding if you are going to make any headway here...

Haha! I don't think anything can penetrate the fog that swirls in the average brexiteer's head. And let's be honest, when it comes to SC we're talking a full on 1950s toxic smog.

[Herman 9,696]

12 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Of course all of that is true, but if millions  of voters believed the Leave lies (many created by BoJo the Clown) about the EU being the villain in the relationship with the UK then they will probably buy the BoJo the Clown lie that now it is the EU causing all the problems with the Irish Sea border.

This is more of the Cummings style £350 million trick. They know it's a lie, we know it's a lie but every time they repeat it, then we repeat it with complaints, the more it sticks into people's heads. They have always relied on there being enough people out there that aren't interested and won't check the full facts.

I'm not sure how we deal with this level of political dishonesty. Highlighting the lies seems to help them.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

This is more of the Cummings style £350 million trick. They know it's a lie, we know it's a lie but every time they repeat it, then we repeat it with complaints, the more it sticks into people's heads. They have always relied on there being enough people out there that aren't interested and won't check the full facts.

I'm not sure how we deal with this level of political dishonesty. Highlighting the lies seems to help them.

There was an interesting piece in The Guardian a week or so back (possibly by Martin Kettle) about how voters used to value competence in their leaders but that this now seemed much less the case. Cases in point being Trump, entirely incapable of being president in any meaningful sense, and Johnson, almost as totally useless. 

I can't find the article now, but roughly the argument was that in an increasingly instant age populists, with catchy slogans and symbols and a simple message, even though frequently  just a lie, were more immediately appealing than more competent politicians with less soundbitey solutions.

[SwindonCanary 455]

more closer to home, trade between the EU AND GIB 

[horsefly 4,273]

6 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

more closer to home, trade between the EU AND GIB 

I assume you mean Gibraltar, the place that voted 96% to REMAIN in the EU (with a record 84% turn out).

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

They have over done the checks !

No they haven't, they are doing what was agreed and in fact they are only doing a subset of what was agreed because the checks are being gradually phased in, there are a lot more coming along. That itself is a concession by the EU to help the UK out because the EU was ready to operate the new deal on Jan 1st 2021, but the UK wasn't and still isn't because of the total incompetence of this governemnt.

None of this a surprise, except to those such as yourself who were foolish enough to believe Johnson's lies.

[SwindonCanary 455]

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

I assume you mean Gibraltar, the place that voted 96% to REMAIN in the EU (with a record 84% turn out).

Yep, look at the controls between the two.  They did not want to go back to air lifts for all their goods so they voted to remain but were out voted by the good people over here 👍   No checks on the thousands who work either side   

[sonyc 5,481]

6 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

look at trade between Switzerland and the EU why hardly any checks 

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

I asked a remainer to say how he would persuade the 63% of constituencies (which voted to leave) to vote to rejoin.

He said that “the EU is going to grow and we can share in that growth” - to which I responded.

The Eurozone has lagged every other major developed economy since the global recovery started in 2009.

EU output fell from 30% of world GDP in 1980 to 17% in 2015. The IMF predicts that 90% in global growth will come from outside of the EU over the next two decades.

Why do you disagree with the IMF and why is it going to be different now?

Not only has the EU been in decline for years but so have our exports to it - while EU unemployment rates have been around twice the UKs for years.

Why would anyone want closer Union with that?