The Positive Brexit Thread

[TheGunnShow 5,905]

It's always been a great political irony that the far more democratic model followed by the EU for its MEP elections brought forth the likes of Farage, who had been a complete failure in the British one.

[BigFish 1,986]

9 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

So your solution is a race to the bottom, essentially Thatcherism on steroids? Import unlimited cheap labour, pay them not enough to live just to keep an unviable business afloat? Never mind that the workers are living in poverty, as long as your daily coffee doesn’t cost you an extra 50p!

Well a race to the bottom is a pretty good example of the Brexit Plan. The thing is @Fen Canary,   we had a system that pretty much worked, was pretty successful when the UK was in the Single Market and Customs Union. There was room for improvement and an economy that didn't work for everyone BUT this was the result of British choices and economic policy.

Brexit, and the Brexiteers ripped this up. And you know what, everything is a little bit crapper. Things are breaking down and bureaucracy is increasing. Simply put Brexit made this worse, and on this thread there has not been one single improvement directly attributed to Brexit identified on here by those who "knew what they voted for".

We are talking about the immigration policy. Freedom of movement has gone and a new "Australia style" points based system introduced. Clearly the new system isn't working unless you are a xenophobe whose only interest was to keep out people who were different to you. Clearly the new system is leading to resourcing issues across hospitality but also the care sector, NHS, logistics, construction, and agriculture. Face it, it is crap, much like most of "Global Britain". It is also nastier and more mean spririted.

Your failure to undersatnd the eceonomics of this is telling. It is not just an extra 50p on my coffee. It is fewer businesses, jobs & less tax revenue. The UK is poorer, we are poorer.

This may seem pretty negative, and in fact it is. The country has gone backwards and the people who took us backwards seem to have no idea of how to turn this round. Instead they drive on, making further damage. The icing on the cake is the Northern Ireland protocol. Frost and Johnson negotiated this, said it was wonderful, forced it through Parliament and now, finally, bleat it is unworkable. Like much of "Global Britain".

[horsefly 4,273]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Sorry, it's saying that illegal channel crossing migrants are complaining because they have not been put in a posh hotel instead they are put in short term accommodation !

Do you honestly believe they demanded to be put up in a "posh hotel"?

[BigFish 1,986]

35 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

It's always been a great political irony that the far more democratic model followed by the EU for its MEP elections brought forth the likes of Farage, who had been a complete failure in the British one.

Another irony is that in the so called "undemocratic EU" all the trade deals entered into were approved by our elected representatives. Now in the so called "more democratic UK" they are cooked up and signed in secret.

[Fen Canary 783]

37 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Well a race to the bottom is a pretty good example of the Brexit Plan. The thing is @Fen Canary,   we had a system that pretty much worked, was pretty successful when the UK was in the Single Market and Customs Union. There was room for improvement and an economy that didn't work for everyone BUT this was the result of British choices and economic policy.

Brexit, and the Brexiteers ripped this up. And you know what, everything is a little bit crapper. Things are breaking down and bureaucracy is increasing. Simply put Brexit made this worse, and on this thread there has not been one single improvement directly attributed to Brexit identified on here by those who "knew what they voted for".

We are talking about the immigration policy. Freedom of movement has gone and a new "Australia style" points based system introduced. Clearly the new system isn't working unless you are a xenophobe whose only interest was to keep out people who were different to you. Clearly the new system is leading to resourcing issues across hospitality but also the care sector, NHS, logistics, construction, and agriculture. Face it, it is crap, much like most of "Global Britain". It is also nastier and more mean spririted.

Your failure to undersatnd the eceonomics of this is telling. It is not just an extra 50p on my coffee. It is fewer businesses, jobs & less tax revenue. The UK is poorer, we are poorer.

This may seem pretty negative, and in fact it is. The country has gone backwards and the people who took us backwards seem to have no idea of how to turn this round. Instead they drive on, making further damage. The icing on the cake is the Northern Ireland protocol. Frost and Johnson negotiated this, said it was wonderful, forced it through Parliament and now, finally, bleat it is unworkable. Like much of "Global Britain".

Your first paragraph pretty much sums up the entire Brexit debate in that we had an economy that didn’t work for everyone. Of course no economy ever can, but it’s obvious by the referendum result that it was only working for a minority, and a majority decided that the downsides of being in the EU outweighed the positives. You believe it was working for you, however I’m sure if you had worked in other industries that had seen an influx of cheap labour that you had to compete with then you would have had a different opinion

[BigFish 1,986]

Just now, Fen Canary said:

Your first paragraph pretty much sums up the entire Brexit debate in that we had an economy that didn’t work for everyone. Of course no economy ever can, but it’s obvious by the referendum result that it was only working for a minority, and a majority decided that the downsides of being in the EU outweighed the positives. You believe it was working for you, however I’m sure if you had worked in other industries that had seen an influx of cheap labour that you had to compete with then you would have had a different opinion

The point is Brexit has made things worse, that the "I know what I voted for" gang have no idea on how to make it better and you have no idea on how the UK Labour market works.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

14 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Nobody ever called for completely sealed borders, it was only ever the Remain camp that tried to portray that as the case. The country will always need immigration, just not the low skilled free for all we had before. 

No. What Remainers , including here, said was the following:

That freedom of movement was good economically for the UK, and the Brexit desire to end it would be damaging. Already proving true.

That those who wanted to end freedom of movement would quickly find it had damaging unintended and unforeseen (at least by them) consequences. Already proving true, as Norwich City, among many businesses, have found..

That the claim by Brexiters up to an including Boris Johnson that the UK could get out from under freedom of movement while somehow keeping its total access to the single market was a lie. Already proved true.

That the supposed restoration of sovereignty by ending freedom of movement would be shown to be a sham as soon as trade talks were started with the likes of India and Australia and it was found that such countries would force extra immigration on the UK. Likely to be proved true in the future.

PS. To be clear, I am not suggesting those running Norwich City wanted to end freedom of movement. It would be surprising it they had done, given that it has, as I predicted here a worrying number of years ago, already started to adversely affect the transfer policy which is a cornerstone of the business model.

Edited June 3, 2021 by PurpleCanary

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Do you honestly believe they demanded to be put up in a "posh hotel"?

that's what they are demanding !

[BigFish 1,986]

37 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No. What Remainers , including here, said was the following:

That freedom of movement was good economically for the UK, and the Brexit desire to end it would be damaging. Already proving true.

That those who wanted to end freedom of movement would quickly find it had damaging unintended and unforeseen (at least by them) consequences. Already proving true, as Norwich City, among many businesses, have found..

That the claim by Brexiters up to an including Boris Johnson that the UK could get out from under freedom of movement while somehow keeping its total access to the single market was a lie. Already proved true.

That the supposed restoration of sovereignty by ending freedom of movement would be shown to be a sham as soon as trade talks were started with the likes of India and Australia and it was found that such countries would force extra immigration on the UK. Likely to be proved true in the future.

PS. To be clear, I am not suggesting those running Norwich City wanted to end freedom of movement. It would be surprising it they had done, given that it has, as I predicted here a worrying number of years ago, already started to adversely affect the transfer policy which is a cornerstone of the business model.

There you go, this is a football forum and there is the link.

City have been screwed by Brexit

[TheGunnShow 5,905]

Compared to tax evaders, refugees take very little out of the pot. I wonder why some media elements seem so keen on peddling that. Especially certain media elements who don't always pay British taxes themselves with their cases of Rothermere Syndrome.

[horsefly 4,273]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

Your first paragraph pretty much sums up the entire Brexit debate in that we had an economy that didn’t work for everyone. Of course no economy ever can, but it’s obvious by the referendum result that it was only working for a minority, and a majority decided that the downsides of being in the EU outweighed the positives. You believe it was working for you, however I’m sure if you had worked in other industries that had seen an influx of cheap labour that you had to compete with then you would have had a different opinion

insofar as you criticise addiction to a low-wage economy I am in agreement with you. Where I depart from your analysis quite quickly is your view that brexit and the ending of free movement is any kind of solution to this. This problem could have been addressed quite easily while we were members of the EU and single market through the mechanisms of taxation policy and minimum wage legislation. Brexit is causing a major financial hit on many traditionally low-paid industries like farming, so the idea that they will have the resources to fund big pay increases to encourage workers into their industries is plain fantasy. Couple that with the fact (among many others) that the government is crammed with ministers with a long record of calling for a radical reduction in workers rights, suggests that "freedom" from EU working standards is more likely to result in these low-paid jobs not only remaining low-paid but also becoming a lot less attractive. The simple truth is that brexit has done nothing to raise wages and shows not the slightest evidence that it will do so.

Given the massive financial hit to GDP that even the government acknowledges is inevitable, the idea that brexit will see the "losers" pre-brexit" suddenly become beneficiaries of the brexit deal is without any foundation whatsoever. Indeed, all the evidence points in the very opposite direction.

 

 

[horsefly 4,273]

33 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

that's what they are demanding !

So you're claiming they said the actual words "we want to be put up in a posh hotel"?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Your first paragraph pretty much sums up the entire Brexit debate in that we had an economy that didn’t work for everyone. Of course no economy ever can, but it’s obvious by the referendum result that it was only working for a minority, and a majority decided that the downsides of being in the EU outweighed the positives. You believe it was working for you, however I’m sure if you had worked in other industries that had seen an influx of cheap labour that you had to compete with then you would have had a different opinion

Come off it. You know that one of the bigger reasons for Brexit was Immigration. And many meant Black or Asian. Hence the demolishing of the Northern Red Wall. Simple fact. They wanted both worlds. 

[A Load of Squit 5,108]

4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Sorry, it's saying that illegal channel crossing migrants are complaining because they have not been put in a posh hotel instead they are put in short term accommodation !

Maybe they'd like to be in conditions that are not illegal.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9647585/Conditions-inside-Napier-Barracks-UNLAWFUL.html

High Court judge rules government illegally held people in Kent detention centre after challenge from six asylum seekers

It's disgusting that Priti Vacant Patel thinks this is OK.

[SwindonCanary 455]

It's a shame more on here are like Miliband.

Ed Miliband: 'The argument is over, I've got to embrace Brexit' - LBC

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

It's a shame more on here are like Miliband.

Ed Miliband: 'The argument is over, I've got to embrace Brexit' - LBC

Why???

I assume that you forgot a small but vital word in that sentence but I think we can get your drift.

So what practical difference would it make if Miliband 'embraces Brexit'???    Answer: precisely zero and if anyone on here followed his lead ................the same.

The UK is now lumbered with the absolutely sh*t deal that Johnson and Frost negotiated (and now realise themselves is absolutely sh*t).  What Miliband, or anyone else thinks about it is irrelevant after the deal is signed especially as it is not just a deal, it is an international treaty which as the idiot Johnson has already discovered (unbelievely this seems to have come as a surprise) cannot be changed unilaterally.

Of course the argument about whether Brexit should happen and if so what sort of Brexit should it be is over. We know the answers to those questions; Brexit has happened and we have left with deal - a truly appalling deal from a UK perspective, and a pretty poor deal from an EU perspective but one which nevertheless meets all their main objectives.

So there is nothing whatsoever we can do about it other than to point out to idiots like you as the lies and the myths unravel and the damage to the country increases that this is what you voted for.

So suck it up and accept some responsibility for the unholy shambles that is unfolding all around you - and brace yourself for the tax rises that are going to be necessary if we are going to even attempt to repair the twin smoking ruins that are our economy/national debt and our public services.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[SwindonCanary 455]

Embraces Brexit and stop complaining about it, would help 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

16 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Embraces Brexit and stop complaining about it, would help 

I will embrace it when it is shown it has made my life better. Until then, I accept it but loathe it.

[kick it off 1,948]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Embraces Brexit and stop complaining about it, would help 

How exactly would that help? What part of Brexit would be made better? apart from obviously there would be fewer people pointing out how thick you are?

[TheGunnShow 5,905]

"Embracing Brexit" reminds me of the quip that the beatings will continue until morale improves.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

The people who are complaining longest and loudest about Brexit are those who voted for it and those who negotiated it... 🤓

[Surfer 1,547]

Oh. But he did didn't he? 

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

19 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Oh. But he did didn't he? 

Yes, he is lying. He said the UK could leave and do a Norway and get all the benefits of the EU, but without somehow having to go on accepting freedom of movement.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Embraces Brexit and stop complaining about it, would help 

Come on then if your life is worse tell me why  !

[SwindonCanary 455]

https://youtu.be/GSlwHlZi4R8

 

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Embraces Brexit and stop complaining about it, would help 

Come on then if your life is worse tell me why  !

Higher cost of food, travel, shipping, cars.

Inability to accept a job or eduction in Europe 

Loss of income to farmers, fisherman, banking

Labour shortages in cost sensitive industries 

Massive increase in paperwork to export goods

Resumption of “the troubles” in Northern Ireland 

Enabling racist, corrupt nationalist “government” 

..... would you like some more? 

[Herman 9,692]

A lot of us want the best for this country. That is why we won't accept brexit. A third rate political decision that has weakened the country, led by dishonest, corrupt, dog-whistling charlatans. If brexiters had any sense of patriotism they'd be wholly against what is being done to their country too.

[horsefly 4,273]

8 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Embraces Brexit and stop complaining about it, would help 

Come on then if your life is worse tell me why  !

It seems to have made your spelling and punctuation worse than ever.

Come on then, if your life has improved tell me why.

Edited June 4, 2021 by horsefly

[SwindonCanary 455]

5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Higher cost of food, travel, shipping, cars.

Inability to accept a job or eduction in Europe 

Loss of income to farmers, fisherman, banking

Labour shortages in cost sensitive industries 

Massive increase in paperwork to export goods

Resumption of “the troubles” in Northern Ireland 

Enabling racist, corrupt nationalist “government” 

..... would you like some more? 

I wrote how is it effecting you ?   and I'd like to see evidence of higher cost of food and travel.

How's farming effecting you or the troubles in NI ?

Edited June 4, 2021 by SwindonCanary

[horsefly 4,273]

22 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I wrote how is it effecting you ?   and I'd like to see evidence of higher cost of food and travel.

Well, this is what the British Retail Consortium claims:

"The British Retail Consortium said shoppers should brace for possible high:er price tags on EU foods this year, saying "with the additional Brexit red-tape this autumn, retailers may be forced to pass on some of these costs onto their customers.” 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1444661/brexit-news-eu-foods-uk-price-increase-warning-boris-johnson-uk-politics-news

I also guess you haven't followed news about inflation rate increases and forecasts:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/374890/rpi-rate-forecast-uk/

 Inflation is an important measure of any country’s economy, and the Retail Price Index (RPI) is one of the most widely used indicators in the United Kingdom, with the rate expected to rise to 2.5 percent in 2021. The forecasted inflation rate for this index is estimated to increase further in upcoming years, to three percent by 2025.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by horsefly