The Positive Brexit Thread

[sonyc 5,510]

On 01/12/2020 at 12:07, PurpleCanary said:

I read this yesterday, and would very much like Toynbee to be right about this, on the basis that it would be the least worst option from a lousy set of choices. However...

As  a logical explanation of what should happen it is fine, but logic was cast aside a long time ago, and I think she doesn't take enough account of intra-Tory party politics, or of what laughably might be called Johnson's 'character'.

What she is proposing is the softest possible Brexit, given that all the remaining possible Brexits are all to a greater or lesser extent damagingly hard. And so the Brexit of those possible in which the least amount of supposedly lost sovereignty is reclaimed.

I am not at all sure Johnson could sell that to his party, even if he wanted to. it is far from the clean break his shallow 'character' needs to be able to trumpet, bearing in mind that he could probably portrary the skinniest possible Brexit deal as close enough to a clean break, and of course he certainly could with a no-deal.

 

 

https://www.theweek.co.uk/108847/five-signs-brexit-deal-could-be-agreed-this-week?_mout=1&utm_campaign=theweekdaily_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Pretty obvious points made here but the 'mood music' appears to indicate a coming together of positions.

[SwindonCanary 455]

48 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Being called "thick" by you is a badge of honour. I would be truly horrified if you agreed with anything I've said. Then I would have to be really worried about my state of mind. Thankfully that will never happen.

WELL IT DID SEEM EASY TO READ, YOU WERE JUST BEENING AWKARD OR THICK ONE OF THOSE

[horsefly 4,296]

40 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Just wait til the sh** really hits the fan and we hear more alternative truths....lorry queues? It will be the fault of the French....and so on.

Anything negative will be spinned and re-formulated by Brexit supporters as a positive. Or under-played. Or, like in this thread when challenged, simply ignored.

I predict confidently that they will not be able to acknowledge any negatives. Already I see the chides of "you're against our country" when the questions get tougher and there is less room to manoeuvre . One of the last refuges I guess.

Spot on Sonyc!. It bemuses me that the idea of "patriotism" is commandeered by these people as meaning you have to back the government whatever they do. It's as if the 20th century Na*zi and Communist dictatorships taught them nothing.

Edited December 2, 2020 by horsefly

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

WELL IT DID SEEM EASY TO READ, YOU WERE JUST BEENING AWKARD OR THICK ONE OF THOSE

that has to be a send up

BEENING AWKARD  😂

 

[horsefly 4,296]

3 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

WELL IT DID SEEM EASY TO READ, YOU WERE JUST BEENING AWKARD OR THICK ONE OF THOSE

If you say so, I'll let others judge that, I really can't be bothered. I would be far more interested to learn what you have to say in response to my post regarding your strange view of what consitutes a democracy. What you have written is a straightforward advocacy of autocracy or dictatorship. That you can't see this is bewildering.

[horsefly 4,296]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

that has to be a send up

BEENING AWKARD  😂

 

used to be a fine centre forward for Denmark

[SwindonCanary 455]

THIS IS NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND LEAVE IT. 

The aggressive Remoaners have started their bullying. Bullying that just won’t stop. Bullying that seems to be getting more and more aggressive towards those who dared to have a different opinion to theirs.

Edited December 2, 2020 by SwindonCanary

[Bill 1,788]

I hardly think pointing out that you are a clueless idiot is bullying

[horsefly 4,296]

1 minute ago, SwindonCanary said:

THIS IS NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND LEAVE IT. 

All you do is whinge about how unfair people are. So stop shouting and respond to my previous points:

"You clearly have not the slightest understanding of the concept of "democracy". A country only counts as a democracy if it enables ALL opposing views to be expressed freely. You clearly support an autocracy. Only true patriots recognise the need to continue engaging in debate that seeks to promote the best interests of the country. I have seen no evidence here that the people you insultingly describe as "remoaners" and a "disgrace" are doing nothing but offer opinions that seek to serve the best interests of the country. And indeed, every recent poll on Brexit supports the claim that the sizeable majority of the country now support such an anti-Brexit position. You clearly disagree with those opinions (although you show no evidence of having understood them), which is fine. But the idea that you have some authority to rule out those opinions being expressed is utterly contemptible. It is what dictatorships do you buffoon."

[SHRIMPER 328]

21 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

THIS IS NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON AS LONG AS YOU UNDERSTAND LEAVE IT. 

The aggressive Remoaners have started their bullying. Bullying that just won’t stop. Bullying that seems to be getting more and more aggressive towards those who dared to have a different opinion to theirs.

I think you would be better using Polari SWINDO. I am sure some of your bunk mates in the Andrew spoke it.

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, SHRIMPER said:

I think you would be better using Polari SWINDO. I am sure some of your bunk mates in the Andrew spoke it.

He sounds like he was a regular visitor to look for the golden rivet

[SwindonCanary 455]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

All you do is whinge about how unfair people are. So stop shouting and respond to my previous points:

"You clearly have not the slightest understanding of the concept of "democracy". A country only counts as a democracy if it enables ALL opposing views to be expressed freely. You clearly support an autocracy. Only true patriots recognise the need to continue engaging in debate that seeks to promote the best interests of the country. I have seen no evidence here that the people you insultingly describe as "remoaners" and a "disgrace" are doing nothing but offer opinions that seek to serve the best interests of the country. And indeed, every recent poll on Brexit supports the claim that the sizeable majority of the country now support such an anti-Brexit position. You clearly disagree with those opinions (although you show no evidence of having understood them), which is fine. But the idea that you have some authority to rule out those opinions being expressed is utterly contemptible. It is what dictatorships do you buffoon."

I know what a  democratic vote is = we won ! STOP FIGHTING IT !

[Bill 1,788]

29 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I know what a  democratic vote is = we won ! STOP FIGHTING IT !

Therefore you should know that any democracy allows for free speech

Pointing out how dangerous something is, does not equate to 'fighting it'

In fact is, it is through democrats pointing out those failures that we now have the fishing and farming lobby saying they regret voting for Brexit and the current polls have

"Asked last week "in hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?" just over half of respondents — 51% — said "wrong," compared with 38% who said "right." Eleven percent said "don't know."

The bigotry and hate you lot hoped to foster in the UK has failed. Note how many of those Leave Liars have now crawled back under their stones. No more the nonsense about sunny uplands, deals being easy, free unicorns for all etc

The sht really has hit the fan as millions are being wasted on building lorry parks. hiring EU vets, trying to find 50,000 customs staff and trying to cobble together software to deal with the 4 million extra forms per week this absurdity will cause.

Take back our borders.... when there is now to be an EU monitored border in UK sovereign territory and an EU controlled border on the border if Kent

How easily the stupid were conned 😂

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bill

[SwindonCanary 455]

One vote took place on 23 June 2016 there was no option to change your mind, so stop repeating it, we voted out. 

[Bill 1,788]

16 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

One vote took place on 23 June 2016 there was no option to change your mind, so stop repeating it, we voted out. 

stop lying - no one is talking about changing the vote, that's just you lying as usual

what is being pointed out is that it no longer has the support if the country and the lies you swallowed and continue to repeat are just that, lies

the UK is backtracking on all the nonsense it filled your silly heads with - at quite a cost

50,000 customs officials or 50,000 nurses ?

I know what decent folk want

[SwindonCanary 455]

56 minutes ago, Bill said:

In fact is, it is through democrats pointing out those failures that we now have the fishing and farming lobby saying they regret voting for Brexit and the current polls have

"Asked last week "in hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?" just over half of respondents — 51% — said "wrong," compared with 38% who said "right." Eleven percent said "don't know."

stop pointing it out there's no changing it.

[paul moy 235]

Boost for the UK..... One in five companies have diverted business from EU in favour of global business since 2016. UK exports have performed strongly, and last year we were the only top 10 exporting nation to see its overseas sales increase :

 

' BRITISH exporters are already severing ties with the EU in favour of alternative markets elsewhere in the world in line with Boris Johnson's Global Britain vision, new research has indicated.

With less than a month to go before the end of the Brexit transition period, EU negotiator Michel Barnier and UK counterpart Lord David Frost are working feverishly to try and thrash out a trade deal. However, with such an agreement hanging in the balance, the study - undertaken by Lloyds Bank and Aston Business School - indicates nearly one in five companies which export goods overseas has diverted business away from the EU since the 2016 referendum result.

The research also indicates that firms are actively looking for new export markets as a result of the UK leaving the EU.

Exports worth an estimated £50billion have been diverted since June 2016, according to the report, based on an analysis of 340,000 quarterly export transactions made by a total of 26,000 UK exporters.

 

Over the course of the last five years, growth in export values towards EU countries have fallen by an average of 8.7 percent a year, the report added.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1367654/brexit-news-exports-global-britain-trade-deal-eu-japan-canada-michel-barnier-david-frost

Edited December 3, 2020 by paul moy

[horsefly 4,296]

7 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I know what a  democratic vote is = we won ! STOP FIGHTING IT !

FFS why do you keep demonstrating your utter stupidity with comments like this. Democracy DOES NOT MEAN that one stops debating issues after a vote is won. THAT'S A DEFINITION OF A DICTATORSHIP you idiot. Can you not grasp such a simple fact? Young children understand this very simple idea, why don't you?

[horsefly 4,296]

1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Boost for the UK..... One in five companies have diverted business from EU in favour of global business since 2016. UK exports have performed strongly, and last year we were the only top 10 exporting nation to see its overseas sales increase :

 

' BRITISH exporters are already severing ties with the EU in favour of alternative markets elsewhere in the world in line with Boris Johnson's Global Britain vision, new research has indicated.

With less than a month to go before the end of the Brexit transition period, EU negotiator Michel Barnier and UK counterpart Lord David Frost are working feverishly to try and thrash out a trade deal. However, with such an agreement hanging in the balance, the study - undertaken by Lloyds Bank and Aston Business School - indicates nearly one in five companies which export goods overseas has diverted business away from the EU since the 2016 referendum result.

The research also indicates that firms are actively looking for new export markets as a result of the UK leaving the EU.

Exports worth an estimated £50billion have been diverted since June 2016, according to the report, based on an analysis of 340,000 quarterly export transactions made by a total of 26,000 UK exporters.

 

Over the course of the last five years, growth in export values towards EU countries have fallen by an average of 8.7 percent a year, the report added.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1367654/brexit-news-exports-global-britain-trade-deal-eu-japan-canada-michel-barnier-david-frost

Ah! that will be a report by the same Lloyds bank that annouced the following on 2nd February:

"LLOYDS has become the latest high street bank to deliver a blow to staff with the news that it's axing 780 front-line jobs."

Lloyds Banking Group to cut 780 branch jobs – The Sun

And this on 9th September:

"Britain's biggest high street bank has revived its restructuring plans by axing 865 jobs, months after it revealed gloomy forecasts for the UK economy."

Lloyds Bank to axe hundreds of jobs (telegraph.co.uk)

And I believe the same bank that annouced this on 4th November:

"LLOYDS Banking Group has said it plans to cut another 1,070 jobs as part of its major restructuring programme."

Lloyds Bank to cut 1,070 jobs with staff at Halifax and Bank of Scotland also affected (thesun.co.uk)

And one of the banks that informed expats living in the EU that:

"Thousands of Britons living in the EU will have their UK bank accounts closed by the end of the year because of the UK’s failure to agree a post-Brexit trade deal."

Thousands of Britons living in EU told their UK bank accounts will be closed | Banks and building societies | The Guardian

 

I could go on but I'm too busy dancing at the great news that we've shifted some of our trade from Europe to further abroad.

 

 

 

[paul moy 235]

21 minutes ago, horsefly said:

FFS why do you keep demonstrating your utter stupidity with comments like this. Democracy DOES NOT MEAN that one stops debating issues after a vote is won. THAT'S A DEFINITION OF A DICTATORSHIP you idiot. Can you not grasp such a simple fact? Young children understand this very simple idea, why don't you?

Indeed, but the way you and you ilk have conducted yourselves in non-stop abuse and remoaner activities since losing the vote proves you are sore losers and unable to accept the logical democratic vote of the majority and move on.  The UK is now ready to succeed without the totally ridiculous restriction of EU shackles and parasitism (notably of our fishing industry, jobs market, tariffs and VAT) , saving us multi-billions year on year and growing our home economy, free of anti-competitive EU practices which have held us back for nearly 50 years. 

 

 

 

[horsefly 4,296]

7 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Indeed, but the way you and you ilk have conducted yourselves in non-stop abuse and remoaner activities since losing the vote proves you are sore losers and unable to accept the logical democratic vote of the majority and move on.  The UK is now ready to succeed without the totally ridiculous restriction of EU shackles and parasitism (notably of our fishing industry, jobs market, tariffs and VAT) , saving us multi-billions year on year and growing our home economy, free of anti-competitive EU practices which have held us back for nearly 50 years. 

 

 

 

And your evidence for that twaddle is? So I presume you think the CBI and NFU, the Road Haulliers Association et al are also "sore losers and unable to accept the logical democratic vote of the majority". Strange to have such groups as my bedfellows but I think you will find that they are concerned with the economic health of the country just like us "remoaners".

Edited December 3, 2020 by horsefly

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Ah! that will be a report by the same Lloyds bank that annouced the following on 2nd February:

"LLOYDS has become the latest high street bank to deliver a blow to staff with the news that it's axing 780 front-line jobs."

Lloyds Banking Group to cut 780 branch jobs – The Sun

And this on 9th September:

"Britain's biggest high street bank has revived its restructuring plans by axing 865 jobs, months after it revealed gloomy forecasts for the UK economy."

Lloyds Bank to axe hundreds of jobs (telegraph.co.uk)

And I believe the same bank that annouced this on 4th November:

"LLOYDS Banking Group has said it plans to cut another 1,070 jobs as part of its major restructuring programme."

Lloyds Bank to cut 1,070 jobs with staff at Halifax and Bank of Scotland also affected (thesun.co.uk)

And one of the banks that informed expats living in the EU that:

"Thousands of Britons living in the EU will have their UK bank accounts closed by the end of the year because of the UK’s failure to agree a post-Brexit trade deal."

Thousands of Britons living in EU told their UK bank accounts will be closed | Banks and building societies | The Guardian

 

I could go on but I'm too busy dancing at the great news that we've shifted some of our trade from Europe to further abroad.

 

 

 

All banks have been restructuring due to the changing market, just as other industries have been, and some companies are now failing due to their own failure to restructure, such as Debenhams, Top Shop etc.  The UK indeed also as a country is now restructuring to meet future world changes by embracing Brexit and freedom from the sclerotic and anachronistic EU.

[Herman 9,754]

Erm, there's a big covid elephant in the room Paul that is helping with "restructuring". 

[horsefly 4,296]

You said:

"the way you and you ilk have conducted yourselves in non-stop abuse and remoaner activities since losing the vote proves you are sore losers"

Then you said: 

" the sclerotic and anachronistic EU"

A rather pathetic small-minded little quip you lifted from IDS who's absurd claims (on Talksport of all places) that Brexit was responsible for our approval of Vaccines has been rightly ridiculed by all the scientists concerned. 

[paul moy 235]

55 minutes ago, Herman said:

Erm, there's a big covid elephant in the room Paul that is helping with "restructuring". 

Perversely, imo covid helps as it reduces demand and thus stresses created by the EU in the case of No Deal. Less demand and thus correspondingly fewer imports and exports regarding the EU is a further positive case for going for No Deal as it allows an easier implementation of documentary requirements and lower staffing requirements in the immediate future and as there are great advantages to the UK in avoiding at least a detrimental deal that the EU is trying to cajole us into with their incessant trap-setting.  

A deal can be done next year when we are free and the EU accepts that we are a sovereign country but really we do not need a deal as much as the EU does , just as I've said all along due to their massive trade deficit with us.

[paul moy 235]

58 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You said:

"the way you and you ilk have conducted yourselves in non-stop abuse and remoaner activities since losing the vote proves you are sore losers"

Then you said: 

" the sclerotic and anachronistic EU"

A rather pathetic small-minded little quip you lifted from IDS who's absurd claims (on Talksport of all places) that Brexit was responsible for our approval of Vaccines has been rightly ridiculed by all the scientists concerned. 

It says it all that an EU diplomat to the UK has voiced his annoyance that we as a free country have beaten them to passing the vaccine due to our superior expertise.   LOL

[paul moy 235]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

You said:

"the way you and you ilk have conducted yourselves in non-stop abuse and remoaner activities since losing the vote proves you are sore losers"

Then you said: 

" the sclerotic and anachronistic EU"

A rather pathetic small-minded little quip you lifted from IDS who's absurd claims (on Talksport of all places) that Brexit was responsible for our approval of Vaccines has been rightly ridiculed by all the scientists concerned. 

Remoaners simply do not want the UK to be a success.  Very sad.....

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

FFS why do you keep demonstrating your utter stupidity with comments like this. Democracy DOES NOT MEAN that one stops debating issues after a vote is won. THAT'S A DEFINITION OF A DICTATORSHIP you idiot. Can you not grasp such a simple fact? Young children understand this very simple idea, why don't you?

What do you hope to gain by continually bleating about it  ?

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, SwindonCanary said:

What do you hope to gain by continually bleating about it  ?

Some people just have a negative outlook to life.  They cannot see the big picture  and do not like to leave their comfort zone.  I feel sorry for them as they are followers in life and not go-getters.....  pessimists and bitter and twisted as they have constantly shown. 

People of that ilk lead shorter lives statistically so they really should lighten up .........

[Herman 9,754]

You've trashed our country Moyo. It won't be forgotten. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Herman