Surfer 1,547 Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said: There will be questions as to why any time was lost, however, as the British demands had largely already been ceded to on Friday, as referenced by Barnier. 😀 Like many suggested : a U-turn is coming... EU agreed to nothing, just to "increase the pace of negotiations" EU will not cave, US is not riding to their rescue, these chancers are in deep doo doo and they know it. No doubt they will be attacking Keir Starmer and Labour councils for a lack of patriotism as a distraction tomorrow or Wednesday. Edited October 19, 2020 by Surfer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 19, 2020 https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/post-brexit-trade-talks-michel-barnier-730832?ITO=newsnow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) You are so gullible Swindon.... the EU agreed to what the PM asked them to do. So now Gove is saying that is not enough? A U-turn is so obviously coming. Gove is just setting his boss up to be the hero that rescued the trade negotiations. Barnier must be rolling his eyes at the obviousness of this "negotiating" tactic. If there is flexibility from the EU side it will be around fishing rights, as it is the least important economically. The one issue they will never budge off of is maintaining a level playing field if you still demand a tariff free market access. Which the UK agreed to, but now wants the right to break whenever it wants to via subsidies to favorite industries. Edited October 20, 2020 by Surfer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) I'm not gullible, but I do believe both side will have to give if there's a deal. Fish will have to change and we need not to be ruled by the EU. Even the head of BMW says “We need tariff-free trade,” BMW’s Nicolas Peter told journalists last Thursday. “And even then, it needs to be seamless. The administrative processing at customs needs to be efficient.” Business want it, we want it but the EU don't, something has to change Edited October 20, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted October 20, 2020 14 hours ago, A Load of Squit said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/19/brexit-gove-praises-constructive-move-as-eu-agrees-to-intensify-talks Gove’s live volte-face added an extra touch of farce to the government’s suspension of the talks, which were due to start today. It appears they are likely to resume again with just 24 hours lost. There will be questions as to why any time was lost, however, as the British demands had largely already been ceded to on Friday, as referenced by Barnier. 😀 To be pedantic it is less than that ALOS. There were no formal talks scheduled for this week, it was supposed to be done and dusted. Barnier had offered to come over yesterday to continue, instead they did it on the phone. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: I'm not gullible, but I do believe both side will have to give if there's a deal. Fish will have to change and we need not to be ruled by the EU. Even the head of BMW says “We need tariff-free trade,” BMW’s Nicolas Peter told journalists last Thursday. “And even then, it needs to be seamless. The administrative processing at customs needs to be efficient.” Business want it, we want it but the EU don't, something has to change Actually what business wanted was to stay on the EU. But failing that to stay de jure or de facto in the single market, or failing that to stay in a customs' union or failing that to have a comprehensive level-playing field trade deal. All of those post-Brexit options were available as far as the EU was concerned but all have been rejected by the UK government. Leaving business with the bad-dream option of a mininal trade deal or the worst nightmare option of a no-deal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 20, 2020 1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said: Actually what business wanted was to stay on the EU. But failing that to stay de jure or de facto in the single market, or failing that to stay in a customs' union or failing that to have a comprehensive level-playing field trade deal. All of those post-Brexit options were available as far as the EU was concerned but all have been rejected by the UK government. Leaving business with the bad-dream option of a mininal trade deal or the worst nightmare option of a no-deal. We have already said no to the single market & customs' union the man at BMW is talking sense as it's all that's left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,749 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: We have already said no to the single market & customs' union the man at BMW is talking sense as it's all that's left. What are you worrying about SC. Isn't this EXACTLY want Patrick Minford (the favourite Brexiteers economist) said would happen - Even with or without a 'deal' the Rules of Origin will exclude British built 'electric' cars being classified as British (not enough content - those batteries) hence tariffs. Ergo the car manufacturers have already been long term 'switched off' & unplugged in the UK. Given all the above and that the average Brexiteer is not economically active and far removed from exporting industries but full of nostalgic nationalism and symbolism, I fully expect fishing to trump car manufacturing. It's what you wanted. I'm sure BMW will take note. Edited October 20, 2020 by Yellow Fever 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted October 20, 2020 BMW could start making trawlers. 😂 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted October 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Herman said: BMW could start making trawlers. 😂 Or cross-Channel ferries...🤓 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,749 Posted October 20, 2020 Oh Lord above Send down a dove To cut them throats Of those bad blokes That sells bad beer Brexit to sailors .... I know Brexiteers live in the afterglow of WW2 (but not first hand) - a WW2 naval ditty I always liked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: We have already said no to the single market & customs' union the man at BMW is talking sense as it's all that's left. Oh dear! are you genuinely following the negotiations? BMW are indeed talking sense but the UK position makes this impossible. If you're supporting the BMW position then de facto you're against the UK position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) "I have in my hand an oven-ready deal" Edited October 20, 2020 by horsefly 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted October 20, 2020 A government that can't negotiate with one of its own cities is going toe to toe with an economic superpower. I wonder how it will end up?! 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,985 Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Herman said: A government that can't negotiate with one of its own cities is going toe to toe with an economic superpower. I wonder how it will end up?! Fair point, also a government which used to represent all 4 countries of the UK and now only represents one, and it can't even get cities in that one country on side - truly a government of all the talents incompetent idiots 🙄 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: Even the head of BMW says “We need tariff-free trade,” BMW’s Nicolas Peter told journalists last Thursday. “And even then, it needs to be seamless. The administrative processing at customs needs to be efficient.” Business want it, we want it but the EU don't, something has to change The EU do want it. What they won't agree to though is tariff free trade without a level playing field. Especially on state subsidies to industries. Which is what the UK government agreed to in the Withdrawal Agreement - an extract of which I published above. It's all there in black and white - go read it. So a U-Turn is coming - attacking Manchester local government just the distraction of the day. The fish we catch but don’t eat will be the “breakthrough” the PM will be crowing about. Edited October 20, 2020 by Surfer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted October 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Herman said: A government that can't negotiate with one of its own cities is going toe to toe with an economic superpower. I wonder how it will end up?! Can't negotiate with the House of Lords either. Biggest ever government defeat (since the HoL adopted its current format in 1999) on the regret motion for the 2nd reading of the Internal Markets Bill today. 395 votes to 169, including 39 Tories. Afterall the hot air looks like they will struggle to pass it. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted October 20, 2020 Basically everyone is saying the bill is breaking the law except a few Brexiters and cowardly tory MPs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted October 20, 2020 So the big PR distraction of “putting down the Northern insurrection” is going to plan I see.... £22m in support (less than half what other regions got) the “punishment” for daring to question direct rule by Ministers in London. U-turn definitely coming - Thursday evening is my prediction. Just in time for positive PR heading into the weekend news cycle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 20, 2020 Charles Michel eucopresident said in 2018 'The EU offer has been Canada ++++ deal. Much further reaching on trade ,internal security and Foreign cooperation. This is a true measure of respect and this measure stays in place ' Yet this year Michel Barnier rejected it, when we asked for a Canada deal Now that's two faced or what ? the EU needs to talk to each other ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,492 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Surfer said: So the big PR distraction of “putting down the Northern insurrection” is going to plan I see.... £22m in support (less than half what other regions got) the “punishment” for daring to question direct rule by Ministers in London. U-turn definitely coming - Thursday evening is my prediction. Just in time for positive PR heading into the weekend news cycle. This government (and many previous Conservative administrations) simply don't understand 'the north'. I've lived 'up here' 40 years plus. Liverpool, West & South Yorkshire, Manchester, the North East and Lancashire have been engaged in far more communications in the last 6 months. Today may just be a small turning point....not about Covid, but about any trust in this administration's economic policy. It was frayed. I think the ramifications will be significant in the next 12-18 months in terms of civic obedience. Agree though Surfer, all of this is a distraction to the bigger Brexit issue. Yet, this 'northern thing' is significant. Edited October 20, 2020 by sonyc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted October 20, 2020 From 2017 Swindo. Also Barnier doesn't reject anything unilaterally. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/slide_presented_by_barnier_at_euco_15-12-2017.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: Charles Michel eucopresident said in 2018 'The EU offer has been Canada ++++ deal. Much further reaching on trade ,internal security and Foreign cooperation. This is a true measure of respect and this measure stays in place ' Yet this year Michel Barnier rejected it, when we asked for a Canada deal Now that's two faced or what ? the EU needs to talk to each other ! If this is true it shows just how f*cking stupid this Tory government/party have been in not taking up the offer. It was hard-line Brexsh*teers like you within the Tory party who did everything they could to prevent any sort of deal like this. Now those self-same sh*ts are crying foul and begging the EU to offer a Canada style deal. There are only one group of people who deserve the label hypocrites and it's your lot SC. Utterly unprincipled sh*tbags who are going to blight the lives of so many people in this country by visiting this economic calamity upon us at a time of a major crisis. Edited October 20, 2020 by horsefly missing word 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 20, 2020 Herman that said This is only for presentational and information purposes. It is naturally without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181 Posted October 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: Herman that said This is only for presentational and information purposes. It is naturally without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship. How many fish do the EU catch in Canadian waters (I'm sure there must be some?) Why didn't we arrange a new deal before starting the legal process to leave just like the official vote leave campaign said we would? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,749 Posted October 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: How many fish do the EU catch in Canadian waters (I'm sure there must be some?) Why didn't we arrange a new deal before starting the legal process to leave just like the official vote leave campaign said we would? Saint-Pierre and Miquelon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: Blah blah blah...what a load of billy b*ll*cks Samuel Johnson : "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" had your lot in mind. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: That can be arranged! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 20, 2020 Guess you'd like it the other way around Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
