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The Positive Brexit Thread

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2016: “Vote Leave to get rid of red tape”
 
2019: “There will be no forms to fill in between NI and GB”
 
2020: “Don’t forget to fill in your customs code form and the security declaration form and the Transit Accompanying Form, etc etc” #BrexitReality

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1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:
2016: “Vote Leave to get rid of red tape”
 
2019: “There will be no forms to fill in between NI and GB”
 
2020: “Don’t forget to fill in your customs code form and the security declaration form and the Transit Accompanying Form, etc etc” #BrexitReality

Yep. Slogans and no substance. Got them over the line though.

And soon all young people will not have the ease of movement to work / travel freely. 

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"Jewish Brits who's grandparents fled **** Germany and the holocaust are now looking into obtaining dual citizenship and an EU passport via their grandparents' German birth.

 

Think about that for a second."

 

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4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

"Jewish Brits who's grandparents fled **** Germany and the holocaust are now looking into obtaining dual citizenship and an EU passport via their grandparents' German birth.

 

Think about that for a second."

 

Quite so ALOS. Some poetic justice I guess as they were forced to leave in the first place.

Won't every single person be trying to get EU citizenship? I imagine it's the obvious thing to do.

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58 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Ok, 300 pages without worthwhile debate then!

I'm not moaning, I barely read this thread so cannot be offended by the 'quality'.

I suppose I posted out of admiration at sonyc's (futile)attempts to inject something beyond the playground name calling into the discussion.  I guess he doesn't realise how happy the regular posters are in the playground.

Explain to us how to have a sensible grown up debate when the other side consists of Swindo and Jools? 4 years people have been trying all we get is this remainiac, traitor, you lost get over it rubbish. They've never once explained properly what they have won they're just happy that they've won for once. 

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18 minutes ago, Herman said:

Explain to us how to have a sensible grown up debate when the other side consists of Swindo and Jools? 4 years people have been trying all we get is this remainiac, traitor, you lost get over it rubbish. They've never once explained properly what they have won they're just happy that they've won for once. 

The most open-minded folk seem to like music don't they Herman 😉. A correlation anyway.

I won't criticise debate though or strong views and neither you, nor others need any defending from me as you know your minds. Yet, I wonder often how you manage to keep going when you receive little serious argument in return. 10/10 for persistence!

This thread has produced lots of decent debate (Badger & Rock The Boat debated green issues during lockdown, a particular highlight where both interacted and argued points). 

 

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Posted (edited)

Load of Squit   I think your jumping the gun there, wait till we have a deal 

Edited by SwindonCanary

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That answer is a bit like “wait until the COVID pandemic is over before we analyze the effect” 

If you choose to lol it’s obvious he’s correct. And there is nothing coming from the Government that suggests they want cooperation, only more conflict and aggressive posturing about non-compliance and freedom - whatever that means,  it’s never been explained, perhaps deliberately. 

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

Explain to us how to have a sensible grown up debate when the other side consists of Swindo and Jools? 4 years people have been trying all we get is this remainiac, traitor, you lost get over it rubbish. They've never once explained properly what they have won they're just happy that they've won for once. 

Cut the c**p, Herman --- Brexiteers have given by far the best reasons for leaving the EU and those reasons have been numerous and valid -- The valid reasons for staying in the EU by Remainiacs have been sparse to say the least and the irrationality of your arguments have rendered sensible debate futile.

All you Remainiacs have given throughout the initial EU thread and this one is infantile, Left-wing dogma.

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6 minutes ago, Jools said:

Cut the c**p, Herman --- Brexiteers have given by far the best reasons for leaving the EU and those reasons have been numerous and valid -- The valid reasons for staying in the EU by Remainiacs have been sparse to say the least and the irrationality of your arguments have rendered sensible debate futile.

All you Remainiacs have given throughout the initial EU thread and this one is infantile, Left-wing dogma.

Make Britain great again, lift up the anchor, stop those horrible hard working foreigners coming over and taking our jobs, bendy bananas and all the extra cash we will save! 

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36 minutes ago, Surfer said:

That answer is a bit like “wait until the COVID pandemic is over before we analyze the effect” 

If you choose to lol it’s obvious he’s correct. And there is nothing coming from the Government that suggests they want cooperation, only more conflict and aggressive posturing about non-compliance and freedom - whatever that means,  it’s never been explained, perhaps deliberately. 

By cooperation, are you referring to the EU's dumb demands on our sovereignty?

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13 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Make Britain great again, lift up the anchor, stop those horrible hard working foreigners coming over and taking our jobs, bendy bananas and all the extra cash we will save! 

There you go, that's the level of Remainiac debate ☝️

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59 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Load of Squit   I think your jumping the gun there, wait till we have a deal 

And if there is no deal?

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

The most open-minded folk seem to like music don't they Herman 😉. A correlation anyway.

I won't criticise debate though or strong views and neither you, nor others need any defending from me as you know your minds. Yet, I wonder often how you manage to keep going when you receive little serious argument in return. 10/10 for persistence!

This thread has produced lots of decent debate (Badger & Rock The Boat debated green issues during lockdown, a particular highlight where both interacted and argued points). 

 

The facts are important and it is my civic duty to try and educate some people. Unfortunately I'd make a terrible teacher. 😀

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8 minutes ago, BigFish said:

And if there is no deal?

There would then be mutually beneficial trade agreements with those that wish to trade with the UK.

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Posted (edited)

A bit of a shock but it turns out that David Starkey is a bit racially insensitive. 

 

Edited by Herman

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43 minutes ago, Jools said:

There you go, that's the level of Remainiac debate ☝️

I wasn't debating. Those are cold hard facts

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5 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I will put money on it that you voted to stay in the EU as you always say I'm wrong when putting down the EU As well as always calling me names  

It is not a case of being 'wrong' - but of you posting lies.

You don't seem to grasp this, so one lie follows another lie, under some bizarre notion that it is part of reasoned debate.

You even bleat that we should not post up accepted evidence, but wait to see what deal emerges

The stuff about movement of goods by lorry is not a prediction ,scare tactic etc it is accepted fact..... by anyone involved.

The only way that can be avoided is by remaini9nmg in the EU. Disagree about remaining in the EU, but for god’s sale stop keep posting up lies.... as if they somehow add to the debate.

They don't

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1 hour ago, Jools said:

There would then be mutually beneficial trade agreements with those that wish to trade with the UK.

Well I suppose the one with Vietnam comes into effect in August. Apart from that the Brexiteers have come up with the square root of **** all. The problem is that "mutually beneficial trade agreements" is an oxymoron - there are always winners and losers and the supplicants tend to have more losers. Merkal is finally warming up to the end game and preparing to finally kick Johnson's ****. China is pissed off with the UK, there will be no accepatble deal with the US this year and we will be lucky to get a deal with Japan as good as the one we already have through the EU.

So out of the UK's top 15 trading partners that leaves only the UAE and Singapore. Face it there will be no deal with the EU, although Johnson may claim a "successful" "deal" that is a massive failure and pretty much no deals ready for 2021.

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Posted (edited)

I have yet to see trade deals that are better than what the EU has with countries around the world....in general.

There are areas in which geographical proximity may equal those, but when it comes to distance travel the EU comes out best.... hence countries like Japan and Canada being happy to spend 7 years setting up better arrangements with the EU.

A clue might be that a huge country such as the US is consistently bemoaning the fact that the EU gets the better of them in trade deals.

So what earth possesses the tiny minds of brexiteers to think that the UK will be able to improve their lot outside of the EU ?

Well, the simple fact is they don't, as deep down this is not about trade or benefiting from cooperation, but xenophobia..... or racism to be blunt Jools and Mouse Brain have made that abundantly clear, as have Farage and UKIP voters.

So remainers, do keep posting up stuff - as I find it both interesting and informative. And with the poll numbers putting Remain at around 58% it shows people are listening.

A summer of change where bigotry is being swept aside - even Facebook is purging itself of these liars

Edited by Bill
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Talks have broken down because the two sides are far apart. The UK want to be independent and not ruled by the EU=  SIMPLE

Whilst the EU want a level playing field meaning the EU will decide on open and fair competitions between Businesses 

And a sustainable and long team solution for their fishermen/woman

And An overarching institutional Framework and effective dispute mechanism 

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That is just a jumble of random words that you haven't any idea about, and makes little sense

So let me fix it for you

EU wants to stick to the agreement made in 2019, the UK wants to rat on it

there.... not too difficult, is it ?

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12 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Talks have broken down because the two sides are far apart. The UK want to be independent and not ruled by the EU=  SIMPLE

Whilst the EU want a level playing field meaning the EU will decide on open and fair competitions between Businesses 

And a sustainable and long team solution for their fishermen/woman

And An overarching institutional Framework and effective dispute mechanism 

Not really true, is it. Talks have broken down because the Brexiteers did not realise that Johnson's "cake, and eat it" promise was impossible. The UK have therefore refused to compromise and will now have to pay the price.

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59 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Whilst the EU want a level playing field meaning the EU will decide on open and fair competitions between Businesses 

 

The EU's 'Level Playing Field' 👇

 

eu_uneven_playing_field_290620.jpg

 

🤪

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6 hours ago, sonyc said:

It is a kind of mutual thing I believe. Both sides of the argument need each other in some respects. Otherwise, it would be a dead thread a long while ago. People get meaning in this debate. The meaning I fear just serves to underline a world view. Yet it is a successful thread and no harm in adding to it (for me only now and then).

Recently, I posted a cartoon (about never having clean hands, ...if one voted for this government), which of course was political. We all have world views. Yet I was then criticised for having this view ....along the lines of "I expected better of you" and later a sarcastic aside on my intelligence, which was not meant in a very respectful way. I don't respond with personalised comment. I try and stay neutral that way. On the issues though, I do have a view.

That's the issue BB. People conflate political views with a personalisation. It's like poor parenting, criticising a child for something but not separating the behaviour. It's not a left or right thing. But posters like to label you, define you, compartmentalise ... On that issue it's worth a battle for ideas. That article summed it up nicely (and I don't agree with 100% of it nor claim to understand it fully in parts... but the thrust of his view I certainly agreed with). I see some folk as kinds of bullies. Worth standing my ground for.

I would like less personalisation though and you're probably right about the thread being passed that. Does a small voice in all that help? Possibly not ...immediately.

 

Emotions do not always transcend the written word all that well but when I commented on your intelligence it was not done sarcastically. If that is what you felt then I apologise for not expressing myself better. I meant it as a complement that even though we have differing opinions you normally express those views in a moderate way. I was a little surprised that on that particular occasion you were getting down in the gutter where the rest of us operate.

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4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Load of Squit   I think your jumping the gun there, wait till we have a deal 

oh dear, poor clueless mouse brain

''The first details of the controversial Brexit checks Boris Johnson insisted would not apply to trade across the Irish Sea have emerged, with mandatory paperwork for businesses in Great Britain supplying goods to Northern Ireland from January.

An HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) document marked “sensitive”, seen by the Guardian, reveals that firms in Great Britain will be obliged to complete three rounds of customs, security and transit forms on all goods."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/02/first-details-emerge-of-system-for-checks-on-goods-crossing-irish-sea

And, just as the ever knowledgable Bill stated, we have

'The electronic documents will need to be completed whether there is a Brexit trade deal or not and will apply to all suppliers.'

So the reality is that although Johnson repeatedly lied to the stupid that there would be no customs checks between NI and GB, he knew all along that there would be. So as far as the brexit thickos go, the UK will now have a customs border inside UK sovereign territory ..... supervised by the EU !

And even the thickest of thick brexiteers (yes, I know🤪) should be able to grasp that what is now coming out is merely what Johnson agreed, so he could win the election by claiming that he could 'get it done'

However the point is not so much that Johnson lied, as that he had to lie. Had to accept the reality. Either the UK walks clean away from the EU or it stays and accepts the rules it help draw up.

The former is beyond acceptance, and the latter will eventually  require acceptance.

So 'suck it up' bigots you;ve been shafted.... well and truly

 

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