The Positive Brexit Thread

[Herman 9,758]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Nonsence.

Even the likes of Swindon and Jools could get behind fairly radical progressive policies if they feel that they have a stake in it. South Africa and Northern Ireland are not where they are now because one group was made to feel excluded.  They were , however, where they were for that reason

Or you could marginalise the Swindon's of this world further.  But as the last few years prove that is not a recipe for electoral success.

Some of the most patient and intelligent posters on this forum have tried to explain and debate with them and nothing gets far forward. You have to forget about people like that, they are lost to the dark side. Better off concentrating on people who still have a semblance of humanity. 

[BigFish 1,986]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Nonsence.

Even the likes of Swindon and Jools could get behind fairly radical progressive policies if they feel that they have a stake in it. South Africa and Northern Ireland are not where they are now because one group was made to feel excluded.  They were , however, where they were for that reason

Or you could marginalise the Swindon's of this world further.  But as the last few years prove that is not a recipe for electoral success.

 

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Some of the most patient and intelligent posters on this forum have tried to explain and debate with them and nothing gets far forward. You have to forget about people like that, they are lost to the dark side. Better off concentrating on people who still have a semblance of humanity. 

Thing is it is not really an objective debate with them. The tendency is for them to constantly recycle attack lines from 2016 and combine this with a triumphalist "we won, you lost, so suck it it up"  mantra. It is similar to the US, where no matter how much evidence piles up against Trump 30/40% will still support him. Even on January 1st, when the transition is ended I expect the same tired response from them, that it is all the nasty EU's fault and if they only treated the UK fairly then everthing would have been as they were told and expected. The way to electoral success doesn't run through the likes of them, it runs through the old school, one nation Tories who have had their party taken from them, the young new voters, Scottish Unionists & a coalition of LibDems/Plaid/Green voters.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Except the one nation Tories will be pleased we've left the EU !

[Bill 1,788]

Both yourself and Herman underpin my point (above).

There are those who views on this matter come from a xenophobic take and brexit has merely been a flag to rally around.

It's flaws are blindingly obvious, but to accept that position leaves those with little other than their naked bigotry to defend.

And as to the crap that pointing out the stupidity inherent in a stupid idea is the cause of their stupidity has more to do with a right wing defence than any plausible argument.Iif people chose to believe you can speak to the dead, no rational argument is likely to sway them. But as it is out in public debate then it should be challenged and exposed  Just as the above two have with you absurd guff.

[Barbe bleu 824]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Some of the most patient and intelligent posters on this forum have tried to explain and debate with them and nothing gets far forward. You have to forget about people like that, they are lost to the dark side. Better off concentrating on people who still have a semblance of humanity. 

I dont disagree with the general point,  you only need 51% (ish) to be persuaded.

But I would suggest that the default position of the left in this country should change from

"you didnt vote the same way as me and therefore you are wrong and stupid (and probably evil) so I will explain in simple terms why you are wrong and stupid (and probably evil)..."

To

"of course you are right,  only god and google know your hopes and fears better than you and I get that you feel marginalised  but honestly i think my manifesto is for everyone, let me explain..."

That's my view anyway.  

 

 

[Herman 9,758]

I'm not left and your view is bollox.

[Jools 584]

Today marks four years since the UK voted to leave the EU:

Rousing speech Boris and a wonderful moment, but it has to be said that it was Sir Nigel of Farage who fought for 25 years to get us out, and he's the one who deserves the credit...

Boris, wouldn't even be PM if it wasn't for the Brexit Party.

[Bill 1,788]

I am left, and BB's view is still bollox

whatever name he posts under to provoke  reaction

[Jools 584]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

I'm not left and your view is bollox.

You are Left and your views are bollox.

[SwindonCanary 455]

[Jools 584]

The latest “Great Brexit Britain” trade news

 

In 2019 UK exports to non-EU world grew NINE TIMES faster than to EU27

The UK had a massive trade SURPLUS with the world, but a massive trade DEFICIT with the EU

Brexit Britain’s future is bright and it’s out there in the World, not in the EU. Brexit Facts4EU.Org has analysed the latest trade figures published by the Department for International Trade, which came out on Friday (19 June 2020).

Below we present the starkest, simplest, and most revealing summary of the UK’s trade position you are likely to read this year.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

The UK’s non-EU exports of goods and services are £100bn larger than our EU exports
and are growing NINE TIMES faster

• UK exports of goods and services to the (non-EU) world: £398.3bn
• Annual growth in non-EU exports: +10.7%
• Non-EU exports: 57% of total, and growing fast

The UK’s EU27 exports are £100bn smaller than non-EU exports and are growing very slowly

• Exports of goods and services to the EU27: £300.3bn
• Annual growth in EU27 exports: +1.2%
• EU exports: 43% of total, and falling

What about the balance of trade?
Where does the UK earn money and where does it lose it?

• UK’s trade SURPLUS with the non-EU world: +£46.0bn
• This increased by 27.1% in 2019 alone
• UK’s trade DEFICIT with the EU27: £71.9bn
• This worsened by 8.9% in 2019 alone

The UK’s largest trade SURPLUS in 2019 was with the United States, where we exported £47.1 billion more than we imported in goods and services. The UK’s largest trade deficit was with Germany, where we exported £19.3 billion less than we imported.

What about the balance of payments with the EU and with the rest of the world?

• In 2019, the UK had a current account DEFICIT with the EU of £109.9 billion
• That’s almost -£110 BILLION, IN ONE YEAR
• The UK had a current account SURPLUS of £26.1 billion with the rest of the world

How many UK businesses actually export?

According to the latest information (for 2018) from the ONS:-

• 4.8% of businesses export goods globally (116,500)
• 6.0% of businesses export services globally (145,500)
• 9.6% of all businesses export goods or services (233,900)

Statistical note: All the above relates to goods and services for the calendar year 2019. All data comes from official sources, including the Office for National Statistics (ONS), HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), Department for International Trade (DIT), and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

Is the World ready?

In the last month serious negotiations have started with Japan, Australia and New Zealand, and they continue with the USA. These talks are in effect continuations of the talks started by the Rt Hon Liam Fox MP, when he was head of the Dept for International Trade.

The new boss there is Liz Truss, supported by Greg Hands.

 

Observations

 

What’s it really all about, Alfie?

During the 2016 EU Referendum, the official “Stronger In” campaign - backed by the Cameron/Osborne Government and the entire British and Global Establishment – sought to argue on economics. Well, that and an imminent World War Three, and plagues of locusts landing in the Home Counties.

In reality the argument which resonated with real voters was of course about the seemingly-inexorable dis-empowerment of the British nation by an over-reaching, dysfunctional, and unelected eurocracy of frankly mediocre and overpaid officials in Brussels.

Nevertheless, the official Remain campaign chose to focus on the economy.

How has the UK’s trade been with the EU27 over the last 10 years?

One of the great ironies of the last four years since the Referendum, during which the British people have had to endure the most appalling behaviour by ‘the elites’ in Westminster, in the media, in think-tanks, in the luvvie world and elsewhere, has been that the Remain side got it so wrong on one of the main areas they focused on – trade and the economy.

Amazingly, this battle is not yet over. Despite producing otherwise excellent figures last week, some civil servant at the Dept for International Trade still manages to write the following:

“The relative importance of the EU as an export market has declined slightly over the last decade. In 2019, the share of UK exports going to the EU was 43.0% compared to 48.3% in 2009.”

The figures are correct. The characterisation is pure Remainer drivel. To describe a fall in the EU’s share of the UK exports market from 48.3% to 43.0% as “slight” is not only absurd, it is a serious falsehood. It was very disappointing to read this, amongst so much good work.

 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

10 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

More RWNJ nonsense from Swindon.

"94% of Express readers".

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Where do you find this drivel, I can't believe you waste your time looking for it.

[Bill 1,788]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

 

oh dear, it just gets worse for the brexit thickos as Japan demands that a deal be agreed with the UK in 6 weeks

''The Japanese side is clear that it expects more concessions from the UK than from the EU. While they have discussed the option of having a limited deal in the short run, followed by a more complete one as time permits, they are worried about the high political cost of getting even a limited deal through the Diet. They are also aware that any concessions made to the UK will have to be offered to the EU under the terms of the EU-Japan trade treaty, so they must come with matching concessions from the UK that the EU as a whole would not agree to. "

and

''What is evident, however, is that no country wants to conclude a definitive trade deal with the UK without knowing the final shape of the EU-UK partnership."

''The Japanese side is clear that it expects more concessions from the UK than from the EU. "

and so it begins

you would imagine that even the stupidest of stupid brexiteers would be able to grasp the implications of the above

anyone country with as trade deal with the EU will not be able to offer the UK better terms

a Japan, they will want greater access for less than before

none with any clout will tie up anything before the EU has sewn up the UK - these will then have to be ratified at at their Parliament

most will sit back and watch to see if the UK leaves without a deal, then it will be a free for a;; with every tinpot country ripping into the carcase of the UK

and 4 years on the UK is still in all the EU 'functions' even paying the same money - without having any say on how it is spent

estimates are that the UK has lost as much money in lost economic growth as it has paid the EU in 47 years

the nonexistent celebrations says it all

 

[Herman 9,758]

"94% of Express readers"

 

What is that 7 maybe 8 people?

[Barbe bleu 824]

36 minutes ago, Herman said:

I'm not left and your view is bollox.

And so is yours.

I would say that you have rather proved my point and perhaps see in your anger a glimmer that you recognise that I am correct, but i have remembered why the brexit thread is ignored by the vast majority...

Listen to me or don't.  I'll not bother you again

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Bill 1,788]

4 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

And so is yours.

I would say that you have rather proved my point and perhaps see in your anger a glimmer that you recognise that I am correct, but i have remembered why the brexit thread is ignored by the vast majority...

Listen to me or don't.  I'll not bother you again

where's hand crank ?

[Jools 584]

Gone And Almost Forgotten. These Quislings Will Not Be Missed 👇

[Bill 1,788]

4 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Nonsence.

I would stop using hand cranks spell check, if I were you 'BB'

it is rather a giveaway 😋

[Herman 9,758]

7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

And so is yours.

I would say that you have rather proved my point and perhaps see in your anger a glimmer that you recognise that I am correct, but i have remembered why the brexit thread is ignored by the vast majority...

Listen to me or don't.  I'll not bother you again

 

 

 

I joined the initial thread because Jools and Paul Moy kept posting vote leave lies. I tried to correct them and point out the nonsense they were peddling but they weren't in the slightest bit interested, They carried on in exactly the same vein for over four years and they still got what they wanted even though everything they had posted turned out to be false.

You can try to pretend that these people are able to listen to other opinions and then blame others for not listening but the facts are simply that you have sided with wrong 'uns. That is up to you to live with but don't try to make others feel guilty for standing up for facts and reason.

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

I joined the initial thread because Jools and Paul Moy kept posting vote leave lies. I tried to correct them and point out the nonsense they were peddling but they weren't in the slightest bit interested, They carried on in exactly the same vein for over four years and they still got what they wanted even though everything they had posted turned out to be false.

You can try to pretend that these people are able to listen to other opinions and then blame others for not listening but the facts are simply that you have sided with wrong 'uns. That is up to you to live with but don't try to make others feel guilty for standing up for facts and reason.

its only hand crank trying to wind you up

don't bite

[Barbe bleu 824]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

I joined the initial thread because Jools and Paul Moy kept posting vote leave lies. I tried to correct them and point out the nonsense they were peddling but they weren't in the slightest bit interested, They carried on in exactly the same vein for over four years and they still got what they wanted even though everything they had posted turned out to be false.

You can try to pretend that these people are able to listen to other opinions and then blame others for not listening but the facts are simply that you have sided with wrong 'uns. That is up to you to live with but don't try to make others feel guilty for standing up for facts and reason.

I want talking about this thread.  I havent read most of it.  It's just two groups of people pointlessly shouting at each other.  

I was talking about the article that you posted and its observation that the left lacks empathy and that its focus is wrong. 

I thought you might have been posting the article as you wanted to have a discussion about it, but if the level of that discussion is going to be summed up by the phrase "your view is bollox" i dont see that anyone will get anything worthwhile out of it.

 

[Bill 1,788]

more nonsence 🤣

[Herman 9,758]

6 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I want talking about this thread.  I havent read most of it.  It's just two groups of people pointlessly shouting at each other.  

I was talking about the article that you posted and its observation that the left lacks empathy and that its focus is wrong. 

I thought you might have been posting the article as you wanted to have a discussion about it, but if the level of that discussion is going to be summed up by the phrase "your view is bollox" i dont see that anyone will get anything worthwhile out of it.

 

You were suggesting that we should try listening and understanding people like Jools/Swindo whereas I am trying to explain that there is no point. You cannot get anywhere with these sorts. People have been trying for a long time trying to explain things and they are not interested.

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

You were suggesting that we should try listening and understanding people like Jools/Swindo whereas I am trying to explain that there is no point. You cannot get anywhere with these sorts. People have been trying for a long time trying to explain things and they are not interested.

not sure if you see the irony of that post

[Surfer 1,547]

Meanwhile - so Gove says the UK will pay (bribe) Northern Ireland businesses if the EU imposes tariffs. ... which it must if the UK walks away from a formal EU trade deal. 

And the US telling the UK that we accept their trade terms or else.... which will mean the EU will block UK foodstuffs as they can't know that isn't just repackaged US foodstuffs .. so are there more deals like like Gove outlined coming for English farmers?  No because you already got their votes in the form of Tory MP's... I see. Well that's O.K then. 

This post-Brexit period is proving to be such a wheeze isn't it? 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Surfer

[Bill 1,788]

The sad reality is that the brexit dimwits wanted to believe that trade through the EU was some kind of 'Tommy; where the UK could ONLY trade on EU rules which were exceedingly naughty and held the UK back

When in fact they were, and are, probably the most generous as the EU has the clout, and skill to make them so.

What we are now seeing is that being played out on a daily basis as the UK struggles to deal with the mess it has brought upon itself.

Japan clearly won't offer the increased farm product quotas that it has agreed with the EI. whereas te US will demand that it's dodgy stuff be allowed access to UK markets... without the warning label - this comes from the US attacked. Each country will want more from the UK as a measure of the UK retaining the quotas it already has ..... through the EU.

No country has been dim enough to venture away from it's own trade bloc... apart from the UK.

[SwindonCanary 455]

44 minutes ago, Bill said:

more nonsence 🤣

If you don't agree, it's nonsense  (I fhink you speel it dat whay ) 🤣

[Surfer 1,547]

24 minutes ago, Bill said:

No country has been dim enough to venture away from it's own trade bloc... apart from the UK.

The good news is we are still not at the point where we have actually walked away ... yet. If the Government continues with this very public incompetence, there will be an opportunity to force them to back down. If not this Summer, then in November when it's clear the US has turned in a different direction again (if it does)

[Bill 1,788]

7 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The good news is we are still not at the point where we have actually walked away ... yet. If the Government continues with this very public incompetence, there will be an opportunity to force them to back down. If not this Summer, then in November when it's clear the US has turned in a different direction again (if it does)

Hush, dear fellow.

The poor righties imagine that this has all been sorted and it is just a matter of handing back the keys.

When in reality nothing has changed bar us not having a seat at the table.

Lying to get elected does not mean the EU and the rest of the world believe those lies - and can see the reality clear as anyone else with an ounce of sense.

Watch the back pedalling continue, as we watch ever more u-turns.

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Except the one nation Tories will be pleased we've left the EU !

The One Nation the Tories refer to means England and Scotland and Northern Ireland. (and maybe also Wales) so if you lost either one of those two, wouldn't they would be rather upset? Maybe?