The Positive Brexit Thread

[TCCANARY 263]

45 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s not a matter of truth, it’s your failure have any grasp of proportionality or business acumen. I should get back to handing out parking tickets if I were you, there’s a good lad.

Parking Enforcement Officers do a very valuable job, don't be such a snob.

You'd be the first to complain if an ambulance couldn't get to you if the road was blocked by illegally parked cars.

 

[Yellow Fever 4,236]

Idiotic point scoring.

I regularly win EU tenders via our EU reps - but would I win any if we didn't have a good products. No. The French were best for the passports. Simple and end of. The rabid Brexiters can pay double what everybody else pays if they like! Give and extra £50 to charity.

Tenders usually contain all sorts country specific 'stuff' - so its non-trivial even for large companies to tender 'out of country' - fancy translating everything into Greek or Polish etc.  plus they all have their own 'registrations' and company legal hoops required.

Sadly most of international tenders, business and the like seems well above the pay grade of even our elected MPs including cabinet at present. Hopeless.

[A Load of Squit 5,883]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Idiotic point scoring.

I regularly win EU tenders via our EU reps - but would I win any if we didn't have a good products. No. The French were best for the passports. Simple and end of. The rabid Brexiters can pay double what everybody else pays if they like! Give and extra £50 to charity.

Tenders usually contain all sorts country specific 'stuff' - so its non-trivial even for large companies to tender 'out of country' - fancy translating everything into Greek or Polish etc.  plus they all have their own 'registrations' and company legal hoops required.

Sadly most of international tenders, business and the like seems well above the pay grade of even our elected MPs including cabinet at present. Hopeless.

Your grasp of proportionality or business acumen is commendable, you must be what IDS is looking for. 😀

[Yellow Fever 4,236]

13 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Your grasp of proportionality or business acumen is commendable, you must be what IDS is looking for. 😀

Trouble is IDS or any if them is not what I'm looking for. Today it was a German sale.

[Icecream Snow 775]

Interesting analysis on the challenges facing the new chancellor

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51639439

With a manifesto commitment not to raise taxes, pressure from Boris & Cummings to rip up spending rules, and a rising deficit, rather a challenging position to be in.

[Yellow Fever 4,236]

7 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Interesting analysis on the challenges facing the new chancellor

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51639439

With a manifesto commitment not to raise taxes, pressure from Boris & Cummings to rip up spending rules, and a rising deficit, rather a challenging position to be in.

Remove the NI age cap. If you have enough income to pay income tax you can pay NI too.

That plus more borrowing or unicorns.  

[Midlands Yellow 4,487]

A hero or villain but an excellent documentary.

[Herman 10,765]

On 24/02/2020 at 12:09, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks for posting that link, Herman. Truly frightening. The Leave national posters were bad enough but those demonstrate just how much on a broader level it was an insidious campaign based on lies and misinformation.

There is the fraudulent £350m figure used repeatedly, with non-sequitur 'arguments' about how  it is a choice of paying that to Brussels or having flood defences in Yorkshire.

A bizarre inference that somehow the EU is responsible for whaling, even though no EU country practises it, with presumably the happy outcome that whaling will stop if the UK leaves.

The claim that staying in the EU will destroy the British steel industry and 100,000 jobs when those who work in it believe the actual threat comes from Brexit.

And the blatant lie that Turkey is definitely about to join the EU when the reality is that its chances of being accepted as a member anytime soon had already diminished to zero.

So no surprise that Brexiters here lied and spread misinformation and disinformation. It reminds me of the poster who claimed Germany was in recession. When it was pointed out (not by me, as it happens) that this simply wasn't true, there being a precise definition of recession and the German economy had not met it, the reply was:

'Perhaps  it is not true [that Germany is in recession] in the strict technical definition of the term, but in a moral sense it is.'

Quite how an economy can be morally in recession beats me but in general I do think justifying something that way is potentially very useful. One could, for example, call a Brexiter a liar and justify it on the basis that while not true by the strict definition of the word it had a moral truth that rendered  it immune to an action for libel, for example.

More truths coming out.

Somehow I don't feel sympathy for the farmers that had large Vote Leave signs on their fields.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Getting a bit meatier now we've got adults in charge. From the Telegraph:

Boris Johnson is preparing to tear up part of the Brexit deal as he sets out his "red lines" for a trade agreement with the European Union on Thursday.

The Prime Minister has made it clear that he will not be bound by the political declaration attached to the EU Withdrawal Agreement, which sets out the ground rules for a trade deal.

Downing Street sources said the rules of engagement agreed by Mr Johnson last year had been superseded by promises made in the Tory manifesto on which he was elected in December.

The Prime Minister believes he is within his rights to go back on previous agreements covering areas including borders, fishing rights and state aid.

That puts him on a collision course with the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, who has said the political declaration must be followed to the letter.

The declaration – originally requested by Theresa May – is a statement of intent from both sides setting out their broad aims for a trade deal. Mr Johnson signed up to it when Parliament passed the Withdrawal Agreement in January.

However, Number 10 pointed out that Brussels had quietly dropped some of the commitments it made in the political declaration when it published its own negotiating mandate earlier this week, proving that it is not a binding agreement.

Mr Johnson's official spokesman said: "The Withdrawal Agreement is an international treaty – the political declaration is not of that status."

Among the previous agreements Mr Johnson will ditch when he publishes the UK's negotiating mandate are an acceptance of a "level playing field" designed to yoke Britain to EU standards and regulations, an agreement to negotiate over fishing rights and rules governing state aid. 

A senior Conservative source said: "The Prime Minister's mandate was derived from the manifesto, which was published after the agreement of the political declaration and is very clear about the Government's intention, which is to get a Canada-style trade agreement and take back control of our borders, laws and money."

[Herman 10,765]

As has been mentioned I thought this was an oven ready deal. Surely he told the people this plenty of times before the election. Unless he was telling porkies??

[PurpleCanary 6,116]

14 hours ago, Herman said:

More truths coming out.

Somehow I don't feel sympathy for the farmers that had large Vote Leave signs on their fields.

You know we're not in Cumbria (the UK equivalent of Kansas) anymore when the NFU is unhappy, to put it mildly, with the Tory party.

[Herman 10,765]

Good to see the government still playing to its home audience. 

[PurpleCanary 6,116]

51 minutes ago, Herman said:

Good to see the government still playing to its home audience. 

Lewis Goodall

 

✔ @lewis_goodall

 

Replying to @lewis_goodall

 

The Conservative Party has been on quite the journey in 4 years.

-EU membership
-same benefits of single market
-unique economic partnership (chequers)
-Canada+++
-Canada
-Nothing.

[Herman 10,765]

Following Lewis's feed it looks like Schrodinger's Irish border is on the cards again.

Also have to agree with him that this is all leading up to no deal, or Australia deal as they now call it.

[SwindonCanary 456]

🎶 All ways look on the bright side of Brexit 🎶

 

[Yellow Fever 4,236]

8 hours ago, Herman said:

As has been mentioned I thought this was an oven ready deal. Surely he told the people this plenty of times before the election. Unless he was telling porkies??

Sorry - I thought he was talking about the average Brexit turkey.

[BigFish 2,209]

Word is rather than the EU panicing, DEFRA are. Seems like someone has pointed out that a No Deal Brexit will wipe out 40% of the UK fishing industry on 1st January 2021 unless the government comes up with a cunning plan. Like buying the fish themselves........could it be free langoustines on the NHS?

[Icecream Snow 775]

2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

🎶 All ways look on the bright side of Brexit 🎶

 

What the hell would IDS know about winning? Probably the most useless opposition leader ever.

[Herman 10,765]

42 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

What the hell would IDS know about winning? Probably the most useless opposition leader ever.

Even after May and Cameron, he is still the worst Tory leader in living memory and reportedly thick as mince. Why are clowns like Duncan-Donut and Davis still being taken seriously?

[Van wink 2,994]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

Word is rather than the EU panicing, DEFRA are. Seems like someone has pointed out that a No Deal Brexit will wipe out 40% of the UK fishing industry on 1st January 2021 unless the government comes up with a cunning plan. Like buying the fish themselves........could it be free langoustines on the NHS?

We have a radical government with a big majority looking to reshape the economy, there will be big waves and lots of casualties along the way. Reshaping will cause great hardship for some, so you'd better get used to it!  Lots of opportunity for belligerent Remainers to howl and cry, many more than you enjoy at the moment, but it will all be to no avail as the ultimate goal of the greater good and jam tomorrow will be the justification. 

Those that wanted a softer exit or to remain have blown their chance, we are now looking at revolution and not evolution.

[Surfer 1,547]

Revolutions very rarely end well. Especially for the revolutionaries. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Surfer

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Surfer said:

Revolutions very early end well. Especially for the revolutionaries. 

Nothing ends well for politicians, a bit like footy managers. 

[Herman 10,765]

16 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We have a radical government with a big majority looking to reshape the economy, there will be big waves and lots of casualties along the way. Reshaping will cause great hardship for some, so you'd better get used to it!  Lots of opportunity for belligerent Remainers to howl and cry, many more than you enjoy at the moment, but it will all be to no avail as the ultimate goal of the greater good and jam tomorrow will be the justification. 

Those that wanted a softer exit or to remain have blown their chance, we are now looking at revolution and not evolution.

I don't remember that being written on the ****ing bus!! 

Literally no one voted for revolution. They voted, mistakenly, for better. 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

I don't remember that being written on the ****ing bus!! 

Literally no one voted for revolution. They voted, mistakenly, for better. 

You missed the bus Herman.

[Surfer 1,547]

Classic Fascist / Communist tactic though. Vote for me!  And now that you have voted for me I will tell you what you voted for.... and no need to ever vote again as we are delivering on that. 

Isn't Boris already changing his government's position; during the election is was vote for the deal we have negotiated and "get Brexit done" - now it's "well if you read our manifesto carefully" we actually said we'd do something else?  

Edited February 27, 2020 by Surfer

[Van wink 2,994]

8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Classic Fascist / Communist tactic though. Vote for me!  And now that you have voted for me I will tell you what you voted for.... and no need to ever vote again as we are delivering on that. 

Isn't Boris already changing his government's position; during the election is was vote for the deal we have negotiated and "get Brexit done" - now it's "well if you read our manifesto carefully" we actually said we'd do something else?  

I dont think you will find anything thats going on contradicts the manifesto which swept the government into power.

[PurpleCanary 6,116]

8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Classic Fascist / Communist tactic though. Vote for me!  And now that you have voted for me I will tell you what you voted for.... and no need to ever vote again as we are delivering on that. 

Isn't Boris already changing his government's position; during the election is was vote for the deal we have negotiated and "get Brexit done" - now it's "well if you read our manifesto carefully" we actually said we'd do something else?  

Johnson's 'argument' that the manifesto trumps the Political Declaration he signed up to is nonsense. Of course he can renege on the PD if he wants to. I imagine Cummings is one person who has pushed the idea but going back on his word is not unknown for this prime minister, so it may have been his little wheeze. But this is not like breaking a promise to a wife or mistress. This would have consequences that would be impossible to explain away.

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

I dont think you will find anything thats going on contradicts the manifesto which swept the government into power.

Yeah right. I don't think Boris campaigned on, or for, his manifesto. It was all "get Brexit done" and avoid any questions. 

So whether you or I like it or not, whatever comes out of this 'renegotiation' belongs to his party, not the UK electorate.

[Van wink 2,994]

25 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Yeah right. I don't think Boris campaigned on, or for, his manifesto. It was all "get Brexit done" and avoid any questions. 

So whether you or I like it or not, whatever comes out of this 'renegotiation' belongs to his party, not the UK electorate.

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant,  If it goes well he will take credit, if it goes very badly he will be replaced and a line drawn to try and rescue the party, it’s the way it works as you know. There’s nothing new here.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Van wink

[Herman 10,765]

Likely scenarios on what we have learned over the years:

They will walk us into a no deal. This will be done in league with their friends in the media by manipulating an easily duped electorate into believing it is all the fault of a beligerent EU. This is currently happening, but you aren't hearing the words "no deal", as this has been banned, so you will hear a lot of sounbites (WTO, Australia etc.) which mean exactly the same. There is also a slow drip feed of bad news so that if we do crash out a lot of the anger at the rubbish we are getting may have dissipated.

We will get the deal the EU sets out for us, but Johnson and his friends in the media will sell it to an easily duped electorate as a brilliant deal. Johnson tends to fold easily but he has great PR on his side. One day he may get found out.