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The Positive Brexit Thread

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Somewhat ironic that themajority of Brexiteers would fail an immigration test given their limited foreign languages skills, education and earnings. I also assume that following the comments from theHome secretary they are willing to pick fruit and work as caters and do  the other jobs brexiteers are not willing to do themselves. If they were willing to do those jobs or willing to get the skills  then the immigrants they complain about Would not be in the UK in such numbers in the first place. The brexiteers are blaming someone else for an issue they caused. 

They brexiteers are getting the loss of rights, opportunities, investments and jobs and the increased racism that they wanted yet they are still angry. It seems the real problem is not foreigners but themselves. Yet I doubt they will ever take ownsership themselves   

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On 23/02/2020 at 05:44, T said:

They ............ are getting the loss of rights, opportunities, investments and jobs and the increased racism that they wanted yet they are still angry. It seems the real problem is not foreigners but themselves. Yet I doubt they will ever take ownsership themselves   

There you have right wing populism in a nutshell. In UK and US it's the same symptoms. Permanent anger

The effect of the new visa points system will probably not be higher wages for UK citizens. Employers can't afford to lose competitiveness, so may just shift focus to automation / exit low margin businesses / hire more management and special skills workers from overseas to contain costs, with a loss of internal promotion and on job training opportunities for UK citizens as a result. 

This is what happened to the IT industry in the US. It's a sick joke what the employee profile there is. 

 

Edited by Surfer

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Boris Johnson is trying to renege on his great, oven ready deal because it was neither great nor oven ready. The fat fraud. 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Boris Johnson is trying to renege on his great, oven ready deal because it was neither great nor oven ready. The fat fraud. 

Yes - He never read (nor understood) the detail.

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On 19/02/2020 at 22:20, Herman said:

Thanks for posting that link, Herman. Truly frightening. The Leave national posters were bad enough but those demonstrate just how much on a broader level it was an insidious campaign based on lies and misinformation.

There is the fraudulent £350m figure used repeatedly, with non-sequitur 'arguments' about how  it is a choice of paying that to Brussels or having flood defences in Yorkshire.

A bizarre inference that somehow the EU is responsible for whaling, even though no EU country practises it, with presumably the happy outcome that whaling will stop if the UK leaves.

The claim that staying in the EU will destroy the British steel industry and 100,000 jobs when those who work in it believe the actual threat comes from Brexit.

And the blatant lie that Turkey is definitely about to join the EU when the reality is that its chances of being accepted as a member anytime soon had already diminished to zero.

So no surprise that Brexiters here lied and spread misinformation and disinformation. It reminds me of the poster who claimed Germany was in recession. When it was pointed out (not by me, as it happens) that this simply wasn't true, there being a precise definition of recession and the German economy had not met it, the reply was:

'Perhaps  it is not true [that Germany is in recession] in the strict technical definition of the term, but in a moral sense it is.'

Quite how an economy can be morally in recession beats me but in general I do think justifying something that way is potentially very useful. One could, for example, call a Brexiter a liar and justify it on the basis that while not true by the strict definition of the word it had a moral truth that rendered  it immune to an action for libel, for example.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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On 22/02/2020 at 15:34, Surfer said:

But of course; Brexit never was about putting Britain first. Just as Trump’s Make America Great Again baseball caps are made in China. 

But you can be sure the right wing press will NOT be up in arms over the award of this British government contract to foreigners - after all every patriotic citizen would willingly spend a few extra Pounds on making sure that British Passports that screams our independence to the world is made in a British factory using highly skilled British workers.  

Why won’t the Government? Resignations would be appropriate - Patel is in charge of this right? 

Because of EU rules, the Government has to put all public contracts out to tender to all EU countries. The EU stops us from restricting it to UK companies only. 

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22 hours ago, Surfer said:

There you have right wing populism in a nutshell. In UK and US it's the same symptoms. Permanent anger

The effect of the new visa points system will probably not be higher wages for UK citizens. Employers can't afford to lose competitiveness, so may just shift focus to automation / existing low margin businesses and hiring more management and special skills workers from overseas to contain costs, with a loss of internal promotion and on job training opportunities for UK citizens as a result. 

This is what happened to the IT industry in the US. It's a sick joke what the employee profile there is. 

 

So you're saying higher productivity is a bad thing and we should remain a low-wage economy. Not sorry to upset you but we're coming for your software industry.

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

Boris Johnson is trying to renege on his great, oven ready deal because it was neither great nor oven ready. The fat fraud. 

Yes, it's good isn't it? The initial WA, negotiated by Theresa May, was a total sh!t show and not where you want to start from. Boris did great to open up re-negotiations - where you lot were saying it's impossible to do because the EU don't do that - and watered down May's tripe.

Now he's going to water it down further and make it all the more acceptable to UK interests.

Isn't it great to have adults running the country?

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You utter div. The EU initially offered the border in the Irish Sea to May. She baulked at this and got the EU to compromise. Fatty buffoon boy collapsed quickly and gave the EU what they initially wanted. You've been right royally scammed and you are too idiotic to realise. 🤣

Edited by Herman
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59 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks for posting that link, Herman. Truly frightening. The Leave national posters were bad enough but those demonstrate just how much on a broader level it was an insidious campaign based on lies and misinformation.

There is the fraudulent £350m figure used repeatedly, with non-sequitur 'arguments' about how  it is a choice of paying that to Brussels or having flood defences in Yorkshire.

A bizarre inference that somehow the EU is responsible for whaling, even though no EU country practices it, with presumably the happy outcome that whaling will stop if the UK leaves.

The claim that staying in the EU will destroy the British steel industry and 100,000 jobs when those who work in it believe the actual threat comes from Brexit.

And the blatant lie that Turkey is definitely about to join the EU when the reality is that its chances of being accepted as a member anytime soon had already diminished to zero.

So no surprise that Brexiters here lied and spread misinformation and disinformation. It reminds me of the poster who claimed Germany was in recession. When it was pointed out (not by me, as it happens) that this simply wasn't true, there being a precise definition of recession and the German economy had not met it, the reply was:

'Perhaps  it is not true [that Germany is in recession] in the strict technical definition of the term, but in a moral sense it is.'

Quite how an economy can be morally in recession beats me but in general I do think justifying something that way is potentially very useful. One could, for example, call a Brexiter a liar and justify it on the basis that while not true by the strict definition of the word it had a moral truth that rendered  it immune to an action for libel, for example.

Oh how we all chortled when Corbyn morally won the argument in the 2017 General Election, 2019 General Election, The EU elections and the Leavers won the moral argument in 2016 Referendum. That's a hellava winning streak.

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Classic whataboutery. You haven't won any argument, moral or otherwise. As Purple points out you have cheated and lied to the general public to get what you want. And you are still doing it.

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34 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Because of EU rules, the Government has to put all public contracts out to tender to all EU countries. The EU stops us from restricting it to UK companies only. 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/public-contracts/public-tendering-rules/index_en.htm

When and how EU rules apply?

All public procurement procedures in the EU are carried out on the basis of national rules. For higher value contracts, these rules are based on general EU public procurement rules.

The value limits (thresholds) that mark when EU rules are used depend on the subject of the purchase, and who is making the purchase. These thresholds are revised regularly and the amounts adjusted slightly (next revision is due in 2020).

The main limits are:

  • EUR 139 000 for most types of  services and supplies purchased by central government authorities
  • EUR 5 350 000 for construction contracts

You can check the detailed public procurement thresholds or verify the limits directly with your national rules.

For lower value tenders, only national public procurement rules apply but the general EU principals of transparency and equal treatment should be respected.

Another Brexit lie busted.

 

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49 minutes ago, Herman said:

You utter div. The EU initially offered the border in the Irish Sea to May. She baulked at this and got the EU to compromise. Fatty buffoon boy collapsed quickly and gave the EU what they initially wanted. You've been right royally scammed and you are too idiotic to realise. 🤣

And wasted two extensions doing it.

And had the gall to speak at the DUP conference in 2018 saying there wouldn't be a border in the Irish sea.

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1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Because of EU rules, the Government has to put all public contracts out to tender to all EU countries. The EU stops us from restricting it to UK companies only. 

Oh really.

As TCCANARY has pointed out that's probably a lie, but in any case I thought that Boris "got Brexit done"?

As a political own goal it's hard to beat. Tories unwilling to stand up for the British people on a matter of national principle and honor? 

It's supposed to be a British passport for the British people to be made by a British company by British workers, in Britain. 

Apparently, for this Tory / Johnson government that does not matter a damn. Lower cost wins as usual. 

Heads should roll. And Patel along with the Cummings would be a good place to start. 

 

BTW -  based on this image, that's not deep blue, that's black. So even the return of the "iconic blue British passport" is already messed up? Utterly believable with this lot in charge.... still I'm sure they will deny that. 

Passport.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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9 minutes ago, Herman said:

Still got the unicorn on the front.... 😀

Due to budget cuts it's now a horse with an icecream cone stuck on :classic_tongue:

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41 minutes ago, Herman said:

Still got the unicorn on the front.... 😀

Its from the royal coat of arms of Scotland😁

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2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Its from the royal coat of arms of Scotland😁

Scotland was well known for its unicorns until the English turned up.

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I had to treble check as well. A lot of mixed messaging going on in there. 

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36 minutes ago, Herman said:

I had to treble check as well. A lot of mixed messaging going on in there. 

Could have been a catchy slogan:

We've had enough of EU experts benefitting our economy. Take back control so our own idiots can scr*w it up again

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23 hours ago, Herman said:

Classic whataboutery. You haven't won any argument, moral or otherwise. As Purple points out you have cheated and lied to the general public to get what you want. And you are still doing it.

We won all the arguments that matter. The Referendum, the EU elections, the General election. Each time the margin of victory has increased as more people begin to understand where we are going.

You are welcome to post your victories. From this century only, mind.

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23 hours ago, TCCANARY said:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/public-contracts/public-tendering-rules/index_en.htm

When and how EU rules apply?

All public procurement procedures in the EU are carried out on the basis of national rules. For higher value contracts, these rules are based on general EU public procurement rules.

The value limits (thresholds) that mark when EU rules are used depend on the subject of the purchase, and who is making the purchase. These thresholds are revised regularly and the amounts adjusted slightly (next revision is due in 2020).

The main limits are:

  • EUR 139 000 for most types of  services and supplies purchased by central government authorities
  • EUR 5 350 000 for construction contracts

You can check the detailed public procurement thresholds or verify the limits directly with your national rules.

For lower value tenders, only national public procurement rules apply but the general EU principals of transparency and equal treatment should be respected.

Another Brexit lie busted.

 

So you're saying the tender for printing the new British passports was less than EUR139k. Okaaaay.....

 

And the rest of the sentence "the general EU principals of transparency and equal treatment should be respected" should have provided a little clue to the clueless

Edited by Rock The Boat

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I lost but never sold out to billionaire manipulators. I'm happy with that. 

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34 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So you're saying the tender for printing the new British passports was less than EUR139k. Okaaaay.....

 

And the rest of the sentence "the general EU principals of transparency and equal treatment should be respected" should have provided a little clue to the clueless

No. What you said was,

Because of EU rules, the Government has to put all public contracts out to tender to all EU countries. The EU stops us from restricting it to UK companies only. 

And I then informed you that it's not all public contracts.

 

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2 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

No. What you said was,

Because of EU rules, the Government has to put all public contracts out to tender to all EU countries. The EU stops us from restricting it to UK companies only. 

And I then informed you that it's not all public contracts.

 

Yes you're right, it doesn't include the little contracts that would have minimal value or profit to big companies. Pedantry of the highest order.....its easy to see why you're such a fan of the EU.

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3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yes you're right, it doesn't include the little contracts that would have minimal value or profit to big companies. Pedantry of the highest order.....its easy to see why you're such a fan of the EU.

It's easy to see that you're not a fan of the truth.

 

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43 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

It's easy to see that you're not a fan of the truth.

 

It’s not a matter of truth, it’s your failure have any grasp of proportionality or business acumen. I should get back to handing out parking tickets if I were you, there’s a good lad.

Edited by Van wink

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