SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 BigFish Members 374 3,788 posts Report post Posted 10 minutes ago 2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: WTO is always an option whilst negotiating with the EU Hey Swindo, What is the biggest economy that does not have any Free Trade agreements other than membership in the WTO? We will not only have a WTO that's only with the EU We will have free trade with the rest of the world 😉 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said: If, as you now keep saying, you wanted all along to trade via the WTO (not true, of course - you said we would keep all our access to the single market) and the UK ends up in the best of all possible worlds, trading via the WTO, then why would you want to give that paradise up to do some sub-standard deal with the EU? If the EU wants to keep access to our market it will reciprocate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Herman said: It just means that we failed at negotiations and are leaving with nothing. No Deal is better than a Bad Deal and the EU seem determined to give a Bad Deal, so no other option. I'm happy with that and so will the 17.4m be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 6, 2020 38 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said: So we got back control but are now just going to cede it to whoever will jump into bed with us, as we desperately shop around for deals. Other nations have the bargaining power over us. You and other jingoistic racists like @paul moy have put us right in the s hit. 👍🏻 He's back...... NURSE !!!!!!! he's remoaning....... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted February 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, paul moy said: No Deal is better than a Bad Deal and the EU seem determined to give a Bad Deal, so no other option. I'm happy with that and so will the 17.4m be. The EU have already offered zero tariffs and zero quotas, so Boris would look like an even bigger idiot if he crashed out under WTO terms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said: The EU have already offered zero tariffs and zero quotas, so Boris would look like an even bigger idiot if he crashed out under WTO terms. No, he will be PM for as long as he likes if he sticks it up the EU. He's the only true leader that we've had since Thatcher and he's got them on the run. Keep it up Boris !!!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said: The EU have already offered zero tariffs and zero quotas, so Boris would look like an even bigger idiot if he crashed out under WTO terms. If that's so negotiations should go at a breeze, unless they attach stings to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, SwindonCanary said: If that's so negotiations should go at a breeze, unless they attach stings to it. Stings, strings, more or less the same undesirable things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,585 Posted February 6, 2020 Spreadsheet Phil to get a peerage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,290 Posted February 6, 2020 21 hours ago, BigFish said: Another humdinger, the UK doesn't have a PDO system. Only the EU does. So there is nothing for the EU to recognise and even if they did no regulations to govern it. Which is why I said it will all be included in the FTA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 remainers will stop at nothing ! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51401435 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,290 Posted February 6, 2020 7 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: A good trade deal is dependent on the electorate of another country? That's not taking back control😡 It's dependent on our having friends in the White House. That's politics. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted February 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: If that's so negotiations should go at a breeze, unless they attach stings to it. In return they want access to UK fishing and Moy to shut up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) I believe Boris will in the end agree on limited fishing rights Edited February 6, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,290 Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, BigFish said: Hey Swindo, What is the biggest economy that does not have any Free Trade agreements other than membership in the WTO? So while Googling, I came across the WTO website which, it turns out, has a database of trade-agreements that member countries have notified them of. Unfortunately you can’t run arbitrary queries on the database, but luckily the countries were all referred to by their ISO-3166 numeric codes, therefore, if I took a list of countries, I could downloaded each one and read the list of agreements. For this I use the BeautifulSoup library and inserted the data into some simple Django models I created. I have uploaded the source code to GitHub in case anybody wants to play around with it. The Results Once I had the data, I could write a query to return all the countries that lacked any agreements. Upon running it, I found that many of the returned countries weren’t actually countries at all, but dependent territories like Bermuda and Puerto Rico. I therefore manually removed these. I was then left with this list: Holy See Mauritania Monaco Montenegro Palau Timor-Leste Sao Tome and Principe Serbia Somalia South Sudan Sudan Western Sahara However again, I knew this wasn’t right Serbia and Montenegro are both members of CEFTA, so I investigated further. It turns out that neither are a member of WTO, which is why they have not notified the WTO of their agreements. So I then compared this list with a list of WTO members and removed any that were not members. The next step would have been to order these by GDP, but that turned out to be unnecessary, as there is only one country in the world that trades only under WTO rules. That country: MAURITANIA For those of you not familiar with Mauritania, it’s GDP is $4,714million (0.2% of the UK’s), 50% of its exports consist of Iron Ore, and between 1% and 17% of the population still live in slavery. It appears that this is the country that Leave.UK wish to emulate. I am afraid that this is not a vision for Britain’s future that I can share. https://medium.com/@MrWeeble/who-actually-trades-solely-under-wto-rules-1b6127ce33c6 Why don't you run your model again, this time asking it which countries trade on some WTO rules? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: I believe Boris will in the end agree on limited fishing rights He will give in on most things and proclaim that he has won a great victory. All the rhetoric from both sides at the moment is designed to enable both to claim credit for a negotiated deal and a coming together at the last minute. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Van wink said: He will give in on most things and proclaim that he has won a great victory. All the rhetoric from both sides at the moment is designed to enable both to claim credit for a negotiated deal and a coming together at the last minute. that's what nigotations are all about, some give and some take. Our only worry is the EU don't see it like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted February 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said: Why don't you run your model again, this time asking it which countries trade on some WTO rules? It looks like Remainiacs need reminding of the facts again, RtB -- Not that they take any notice -- Facts are like Kryptonite to a Lefty. ‘Brexit Britain is servicing the World’ - latest official figures are revealed Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab touches down in Australia, boosting trade talks Australia buys 46% more of UK services exports than the average EU country Exclusive analysis and summary from Brexit Facts4EU.Org Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab will arrive in Canberra today (6 February) as part of a four-country visit to the Asia-Pacific region. Trade between the UK and Australia was worth £18.3billion in 2019. The Foreign Secretary will discuss “trade and investment opportunities and the potential for an early free trade deal”. UK exports of services go global, while most EU countries buy little from us Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary The UK has an advanced economy, 80% of which is based on services. In the last 12 month period, the UK exported £317 billion pounds’ worth of services globally. Yet only 39.8% of this massive UK export effort was bought by the EU27 countries. 47 years of EU membership did little for UK goods OR services Most people are aware that the majority of the UK’s exports of goods are sold outside the EU, despite what Remainers wanted everyone to believe for the last four years. Many people are now aware that the EU countries are doing very well out of selling their goods to the UK – and that the EU has been doing so for decades. The EU’s goods surplus is currently running at almost £100 billion per year. This is the difference between what the UK sells to the EU and what they sell us – broadly what you might call the EU27’s ‘annual profit’ from its goods trade with the UK. What is not generally known is that the UK’s services companies – representing 80% of the UK economy – are even less reliant on EU sales than their UK counterparts who sell goods. Busting the myth that the UK's services sales to the EU are balancing out the EU's goods sales to the UK In the last four years, whenever the EU’s massive surplus in its goods trade with the UK was brought up, a common argument from Remainers was “Ah, but the EU countries buy far more of our services.” Sadly this claim was almost never rebutted by the major news or Leave organisations. The UK’s surplus in exports of services does not come remotely close to outweighing the EU’s massive surplus in its exports of goods to the UK. Today we bring readers our latest update on an area which will be important when negotiations finally start next month. (Assuming that the EU have their agreed positions in place by then, which is still not the case despite having had over three years to prepare.) Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary 80% of the UK economy is services – How much do EU countries buy? Latest official UK figures for exports of services, the year to end-Sept 2019 The EU27 bought only 39.8% of the UK’s exports of services The Rest of the World bought 60.2% The fastest-growing customer is the USA Top customer: USA bought £76.3bn - 24.1% of total services exports Highest-placed EU country: Germany, which bought just 6.7% Average UK services exports to EU27 countries: £4.7bn On the other side of the World, Australia bought £6.8bn - 46% more than the EU average [Source data : Office for National Statistics. Latest data, to end Sept 2019.] The EU’s attitude to the largest part of the UK economy – the services sector Once again we must remind Remainer politicians – and even the big name Leave organisations who failed to rebut them - that the Single Market never worked for services, by the admission of the EU Commission itself. “The Single Market – this jewel that is all too often taken for granted –does not function properly for services” - Elżbieta Bieńkowska, EU Commissioner for the Single Market, 2017 Observations For the past four years Remainers have been telling us that the biggest market in the world is on our doorstep. Putting aside the fact that this was always simply untrue (the USA is the biggest), why haven’t “our friends and neighbours” in the EU been topping the tables when we look at our top customers? This is as true in services as it is in manufacturing. The average EU country bought just £4.7bn of services from the UK in the 12 months to 30 Sept 2019. The USA bought over 16 times as much. Japan bought 66% more than the EU27 average. Australia – on the other side of the planet – bought 46% more. These are basic economic facts. They cannot be wished away by Remainers/Rejoiners, nor by Michel Barnier and his cohorts of extremist, ideological technocrats in the EU Commission. A big spin-off Brexit benefit We have long argued that there will be a huge spin-off benefit from Brexit. This benefit will come about because of a renewed confidence in the country which will be reflected in the minds of the UK’s business leaders and entrepreneurs. We forecast that this will lead to a return to an internationally-minded business attitude, resulting in more and more UK businesses looking to expand globally. As ever, members of the Brexit Facts4EU.Org team stand ready to assist the Government in any endeavours to negotiate with the EU and to grow the UK’s business internationally. [ Sources: Office for National Statistics - latest quarterly figures | EU Commission ] Politicians and journalists can contact us for details, as ever. Brexit Facts4EU.Org, 06 Feb 2020 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,066 Posted February 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: that's what nigotations are all about, some give and some take. Our only worry is the EU don't see it like that. Based on his negotiation last time Johnson will be giving and The EU will be taking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted February 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said: Based on his negotiation last time Johnson will be giving and The EU will be taking. When he's caved on trade, maybe Boris can come over here to negotiate to buy my house.... I have a GREAAT deal for him 🙂 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,975 Posted February 6, 2020 54 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said: Which is why I said it will all be included in the FTA. Even if I try I can't disagree with that 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,110 Posted February 6, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jools said: It looks like Remainiacs need reminding of the facts again, RtB -- Not that they take any notice -- Facts are like Kryptonite to a Lefty. ‘Brexit Britain is servicing the World’ - latest official figures are revealed Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab touches down in Australia, boosting trade talks Australia buys 46% more of UK services exports than the average EU country Exclusive analysis and summary from Brexit Facts4EU.Org Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab will arrive in Canberra today (6 February) as part of a four-country visit to the Asia-Pacific region. Trade between the UK and Australia was worth £18.3billion in 2019. The Foreign Secretary will discuss “trade and investment opportunities and the potential for an early free trade deal”. UK exports of services go global, while most EU countries buy little from us Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary The UK has an advanced economy, 80% of which is based on services. In the last 12 month period, the UK exported £317 billion pounds’ worth of services globally. Yet only 39.8% of this massive UK export effort was bought by the EU27 countries. 47 years of EU membership did little for UK goods OR services Most people are aware that the majority of the UK’s exports of goods are sold outside the EU, despite what Remainers wanted everyone to believe for the last four years. Many people are now aware that the EU countries are doing very well out of selling their goods to the UK – and that the EU has been doing so for decades. The EU’s goods surplus is currently running at almost £100 billion per year. This is the difference between what the UK sells to the EU and what they sell us – broadly what you might call the EU27’s ‘annual profit’ from its goods trade with the UK. What is not generally known is that the UK’s services companies – representing 80% of the UK economy – are even less reliant on EU sales than their UK counterparts who sell goods. Busting the myth that the UK's services sales to the EU are balancing out the EU's goods sales to the UK In the last four years, whenever the EU’s massive surplus in its goods trade with the UK was brought up, a common argument from Remainers was “Ah, but the EU countries buy far more of our services.” Sadly this claim was almost never rebutted by the major news or Leave organisations. The UK’s surplus in exports of services does not come remotely close to outweighing the EU’s massive surplus in its exports of goods to the UK. Today we bring readers our latest update on an area which will be important when negotiations finally start next month. (Assuming that the EU have their agreed positions in place by then, which is still not the case despite having had over three years to prepare.) Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary 80% of the UK economy is services – How much do EU countries buy? Latest official UK figures for exports of services, the year to end-Sept 2019 The EU27 bought only 39.8% of the UK’s exports of services The Rest of the World bought 60.2% The fastest-growing customer is the USA Top customer: USA bought £76.3bn - 24.1% of total services exports Highest-placed EU country: Germany, which bought just 6.7% Average UK services exports to EU27 countries: £4.7bn On the other side of the World, Australia bought £6.8bn - 46% more than the EU average [Source data : Office for National Statistics. Latest data, to end Sept 2019.] The EU’s attitude to the largest part of the UK economy – the services sector Once again we must remind Remainer politicians – and even the big name Leave organisations who failed to rebut them - that the Single Market never worked for services, by the admission of the EU Commission itself. “The Single Market – this jewel that is all too often taken for granted –does not function properly for services” - Elżbieta Bieńkowska, EU Commissioner for the Single Market, 2017 Observations For the past four years Remainers have been telling us that the biggest market in the world is on our doorstep. Putting aside the fact that this was always simply untrue (the USA is the biggest), why haven’t “our friends and neighbours” in the EU been topping the tables when we look at our top customers? This is as true in services as it is in manufacturing. The average EU country bought just £4.7bn of services from the UK in the 12 months to 30 Sept 2019. The USA bought over 16 times as much. Japan bought 66% more than the EU27 average. Australia – on the other side of the planet – bought 46% more. These are basic economic facts. They cannot be wished away by Remainers/Rejoiners, nor by Michel Barnier and his cohorts of extremist, ideological technocrats in the EU Commission. A big spin-off Brexit benefit We have long argued that there will be a huge spin-off benefit from Brexit. This benefit will come about because of a renewed confidence in the country which will be reflected in the minds of the UK’s business leaders and entrepreneurs. We forecast that this will lead to a return to an internationally-minded business attitude, resulting in more and more UK businesses looking to expand globally. As ever, members of the Brexit Facts4EU.Org team stand ready to assist the Government in any endeavours to negotiate with the EU and to grow the UK’s business internationally. [ Sources: Office for National Statistics - latest quarterly figures | EU Commission ] Politicians and journalists can contact us for details, as ever. Brexit Facts4EU.Org, 06 Feb 2020 Can someone please donate to them so they can sort their website out? Looks like something that was made in a 90s IT classroom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 38 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said: Based on his negotiation last time Johnson will be giving and The EU will be taking. Are you talking about the leave negotiations ? If so, I've already said he got te best deal he could. Now he's even stronger and will get a lot better deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 Everybody calling Boris a lier should read this https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/how-much-do-we-spend-on-the-eu-and-what-else-could-it-pay-for/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,585 Posted February 6, 2020 Just now, SwindonCanary said: Are you talking about the leave negotiations ? If so, I've already said he got te best deal he could. Now he's even stronger and will get a lot better deal. He got a worse deal than Theresa May. That's how **** he is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,585 Posted February 6, 2020 Just now, SwindonCanary said: Everybody calling Boris a lier should read this https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/how-much-do-we-spend-on-the-eu-and-what-else-could-it-pay-for/ He writes for the telegraph. He was taking a quarter of a million pounds of them. Not sure how much they are bunging him now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,975 Posted February 6, 2020 A lot of noise from our Brexity friends at the moment considering that the negotiations don't start until March and the UK government haven't yet published what the UK negotiating position is. Swindo & Moyo seem to have some inside track on what it will be, could they be Raab is disguise? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,975 Posted February 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: Everybody calling Boris a lier should read this https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/how-much-do-we-spend-on-the-eu-and-what-else-could-it-pay-for/ 2017 Swindo, you really are a **** head 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 6, 2020 1 minute ago, BigFish said: 2017 Swindo, you really are a **** head It a good job I could not read that so I'll go for smart ! Thank you 😁 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,585 Posted February 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, BigFish said: A lot of noise from our Brexity friends at the moment considering that the negotiations don't start until March and the UK government haven't yet published what the UK negotiating position is. Swindo & Moyo seem to have some inside track on what it will be, could they be Raab is disguise? It's like the staring window at an old folks home today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites