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The Positive Brexit Thread

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This feels like one of the worse days of my life. I understand why there are arguments about being a sovereign nation, but really all you need to do is watch Edd Balls "Travels in Euroland" to see where we have gone wrong and how populism can rise and poison the minds of vulnerable people. I dont blame those that voted leave, I blame the media and the politicians  ( some are both } that drip fed a narrative of lies,  what have we done!!

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

He loved being the pantomime villain

Almost like he's an immature, attention seeking tosspot or something.

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This day - Jan 31 - will go down as a watershed in US and UK history. What happens next is what future history books will document. As Churchill once said : " Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps, the end of the beginning "

God Bless You All and make sure to buckle up. It could be a very rough ride. 

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Happy Brexit Day from the FT

"Hardly anyone here wanted “ever closer union”, so we stayed out of the euro and the Schengen travel area. With EU leaders convinced that “ever more Europe” was the answer to its problems, Britain was bound to be increasingly detached. When former UK prime minister David Cameron’s feeble attempt to find a new accommodation failed, Brexit was arguably inevitable, sooner or later. If the European train is ever to arrive, it may go better without its squeakiest wagon. So why the turmoil since 2016? This is something that future historians will ponder, as it has transformed the British political landscape. The simple answer is that a significant part of the political class and those who control the main business lobbies decided that their interests lay in staying in or close to the EU, and that to do this they were willing to risk a political and constitutional crisis. I shall be celebrating on Friday because they have been defeated. The alternative — the quashing of the 2016 referendum, following in the footsteps of far too many European countries whose democratic choices have been overruled — would have exposed our political system and society to serious dangers. It would have meant that for the time being at least we were no longer in reality a democracy or an independent nation. Our choices would have been circumscribed by what the EU system and its domestic allies were willing to allow. Only some future domestic or European crisis could have altered that. We have seen what happens when a political system is incapable of decision, as Britain’s was between May 2017 and December 2019: differences of opinion become polarised and inflamed by continuing uncertainty. As Thomas Hobbes observed, “Sovereign authority is not so hurtful as the want of it”. The situation was aggravated by continual predictions of disaster: mass unemployment, emergency tax rises, food shortages and so on. How much was credulity? How much deliberate mischief-making? In either case, it was irresponsible; in the second, shameful. Fortunately, most people grew resistant to scaremongering, and so “sovereign authority” was restored by the December general election. Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government has many tasks, and one of them is to reassure and conciliate that section of the population that feared the economic consequences of Brexit, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Though nationalists may be irreconcilable, as they realise that Brexit ends their hopes of emulating small member states of the EU such as Slovakia or Luxembourg, for many the issue has been throughout a bread-and-butter one. Think back to the referendum, and even before that. The EU’s own opinion polls showed that only a tiny minority of the British population embraced the European “project” before 2016. The exit poll following the referendum showed the same: the overwhelming concern of Remain voters was economic. Without the “project fear” so energetically promoted by Mr Cameron and his chancellor, George Osborne, how much bigger would the Leave majority have been? Now that economic Armageddon has turned into the proverbial unicorn, we shall see how deep and wide Remainer (or Rejoiner) sentiment really is. I suspect not very. Why would it be? Project fear talked up disaster so flamboyantly that almost anything will be an anticlimax. There may be some short-term disturbance. But Brexit is economically rational. The share of Britain’s exports accounted for by the EU fell by 11 percentage points between 2006 and 2016. The EU single market gives us limited help — especially in services — and may be harming our external trade by imposing high levels of regulation and cost. A rational aim would be “frictionless trade” with as much of the world as possible, not only with the EU. Remainer predominance in business lobbies clearly did not represent either the interests or the opinions of business as a whole. As Lord Melbourne once observed, on some questions the clever fellows get it wrong and the damn fools get it right. This is one of them. Brexit Day: are we there yet? " 😉

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There may be some short-term disturbance. But Brexit is economically rational.

I LOVE THAT BIT 👍

Edited by SwindonCanary
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I notice VW that you claimed it was from the FT as if it somehow represents the organisation's view, but in reality it's just a fluff opinion piece they published by Robert Tombs, a staunch Brexiteer.

Of course Swindo likes the bit about it being economically rational, he's thick but won't acknowledge it so anything that helps him believe he isn't is well received.

Unfortunately, by choosing to quote that bit without looking at the source, he's proven the point a little bit. Yes, lets all ignore every economist on the planet (except Minford) and listen to a History professor/author on the subject of economic rationality.

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7 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Brexit is economically rational. BRING THAT ON

Are you really stupid enough to take a sentence, without even knowing who wrote it and claim it as an all encompassing, argument ending victory because it was published in the financial times, despite the financial times having written for 4 years about how stupid Brexit was in economic terms? You're acting like the opinion of one historian validates your entire viewpoint. It doesn't.

How you ever managed to pull that Instagram model is beyond me.

Edited by kick it off

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Of course Swindon likes the bit about it being economically rational, he's thick but won't acknowledge it so anything that helps him believe he isn't is well received. I'M NOT WELL RECEIVED, ONLY ON THIS REMAINERS BOARD

 

I have corrected it !     🙄

Edited by SwindonCanary
,

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1 minute ago, SwindonCanary said:

Of course Swindon likes the bit about it being economically rational, he's thick but won't acknowledge it so anything that helps him believe he isn't is well received. I NOT WELL RECEIVED, ONLY ON THIS REMAINERS BOARD

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Is there a google translate page to turn unintelligible moronic gibberish into something we can all read?

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12 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Anyone for a pint of bitter?

Nothing to be bitter about VW - You lot voted for it, so you brought it on yourselves. I'm in a high-demand industry which will be totally unaffected by Brexit, and the govt is pumping money into. My parents are in a similar position, as is my partner - It's caused no harm to me or my family long term as I'm skilled visa status so automatically get a permanent Aussie visa with no hassle so in 5 or so years when I emigrate, as will the vast majority of my generation with anything about them and the opportunity to get out, you'll be left with a rainy island full of pensioners and thickos who can be as racist and obnoxious as they like whilst scrabbling about for somebody else to blame for the denigration of society and destruction of living standards.

Enjoy. I'm way past bitterness now - what's the point in wanting a better society for all when the Turkeys in the UK are determined to have their Christmas?

All the Brexwits get from me is condescension and anarchic glee as they all realise exactly what they've done. The bitterness will come in time, but it won't be from my side of the fence, it'll be from fvckwits like Moy and Swindo when they finally see through the lies that Farage sold them and wake up to the reality they've inflicted.

Image result for some people just want to watch the world burn gif"

 

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7 hours ago, paul moy said:

Reminds me of 1999 when I was called a 'little englander' by a fellow Brit when I expressed my view that we should never adopt the euro to my german boss in Hamburg.

I'm surprised you remember that specific instance 20 years later as I imagine it's something that happens to you pretty regularly 😂

And I know I'm going to regret asking but what on earth makes you think there was any commonsense in your response to your boss??

In 1999 the Euro was above 1.50 to the pound for almost the whole of the year and finished at the year at 1.60, i.e. a euro was worth 62.5p. Tonight the euro is at 1.19 to the pound, i.e a euro is worth 84p.

This is only one of many measures you could look at but the Euro appreciating in value by over a third against the £ since you voiced your little Englander views to your boss is a pretty clear indication that the Euro, i.e. the Eurozone economies, have overall fared considerably better than the UK economy and the pound - but of course we already knew that anyway.

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In the '80s we effectively shut down our coal, steel and shipbuilding industries along with 80% of our manufacturing base.  In the '80s & '90s privatisation of telecomms, gas, electricity and water led to massive job losses in these industries.

Yet now all that pain seems like a price worth paying and the economy has recovered from its dire state in the '70s.

I am confident that leaving the EU will seem like a tea party compared to what we experienced 30-40 years ago.  I have faith that we have the capability to embrace the new opportunities that will arise though I accept the transition will be difficult for some.

 

Peter Bone said in Parliament yesterday that over the course of our membership of the EU we have paid 'net' £200+ billion to the EU for the benefit of allowing them to export £100m pa more to us than we exported to them.  "That was not a good deal".

 

So I have toasted Brexit already today with a couple of beers and I am now about to open some Champagne to prove that I'm an Europhile if not an EUphile.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I'm surprised you remember that specific instance 20 years later as I imagine it's something that happens to you pretty regularly 😂

And I know I'm going to regret asking but what on earth makes you think there was any commonsense in your response to your boss??

In 1999 the Euro was above 1.50 to the pound for almost the whole of the year and finished at the year at 1.60, i.e. a euro was worth 62.5p. Tonight the euro is at 1.19 to the pound, i.e a euro is worth 84p.

This is only one of many measures you could look at but the Euro appreciating in value by over a third against the £ since you voiced your little Englander views to your boss is a pretty clear indication that the Euro, i.e. the Eurozone economies, have overall fared considerably better than the UK economy and the pound - but of course we already knew that anyway.

Head in the sand by a remoaner as usual as you refuse to admit the impending complete failure of the Euro that most sensible economists including myself predicted all those years ago due to the misalignment of EU economies etc.   

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I'm trying to magnanimous about the whole thing, the best way it seems to me. 

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10 minutes ago, wooster said:

In the '80s we effectively shut down our coal, steel and shipbuilding industries along with 80% of our manufacturing base.  In the '80s & '90s privatisation of telecomms, gas, electricity and water led to massive job losses in these industries.

Yet now all that pain seems like a price worth paying and the economy has recovered from its dire state in the '70s.

I am confident that leaving the EU will seem like a tea party compared to what we experienced 30-40 years ago.  I have faith that we have the capability to embrace the new opportunities that will arise though I accept the transition will be difficult for some.

 

Peter Bone said in Parliament yesterday that over the course of our membership of the EU we have paid 'net' £200+ billion to the EU for the benefit of allowing them to export £100m pa more to us than we exported to them.  "That was not a good deal".

 

So I have toasted Brexit already today with a couple of beers and I am now about to open some Champagne to prove that I'm an Europhile if not an EUphile.

 

 

We also gave them almost all of our fishing industry and many of our businesses while importing their criminals.  A terrible deal indeed.

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11 minutes ago, wooster said:

 

I am confident that leaving the EU will seem like a tea party compared to what we experienced 30-40 years ago.  I have faith that we have the capability to embrace the new opportunities that will arise though I accept the transition will be difficult for some.

 

 

 

 

👍

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"so in 5 or so years when I emigrate, as will the vast majority of my generation with anything about them and the opportunity to get out, you'll be left with a rainy island full of pensioners and thickos who can be as racist and obnoxious as they like whilst scrabbling about for somebody else to blame for the denigration of society and destruction of living standards."

Thank God you're not bitter Im sure you'll find Ozz to be a far more liberal society :classic_biggrin:,

Edited by Van wink
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just reality VW. Reality has no emotion. I hope for your sakes that Brexit is all the unicorns and rainbows you were promised it would be. Reality says that’s pretty unlikely. Ultimately the people will get what they voted for but didn’t realise they were voting for. Not my problem anymore.

Edited by kick it off

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VW - old, thick and racist.  If he'd said obese as well I would have said it was T and I claim my £5

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4 minutes ago, kick it off said:

just reality VW. Reality has no emotion. I hope for your sakes that Brexit is all the unicorns and rainbows you were promised it would be. Reality says that’s pretty unlikely. Ultimately the people will get what they voted for but didn’t realise they were voting for. Not my problem anymore.

I dont buy promises or threats, its about making up your own mind, exercising your democratic privilege and making the outcome work.

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In the last three years we've been called racists, bigots and god knows what else just because we believe Great Britain can stand on her own feet and not be dictated to !

 

 

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Just now, SwindonCanary said:

In the last three years we've been called racists, bigots and god knows what else just because we believe Great Britain can stand on her own feet and not be dictated to !

 

 

You’ve been called a racist for your frequent racist comments, not because you voted brexit

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Happy Brexit Day from the FT

"Hardly anyone here wanted “ever closer union”, so we stayed out of the euro and the Schengen travel area. With EU leaders convinced that “ever more Europe” was the answer to its problems, Britain was bound to be increasingly detached. When former UK prime minister David Cameron’s feeble attempt to find a new accommodation failed, Brexit was arguably inevitable, sooner or later. If the European train is ever to arrive, it may go better without its squeakiest wagon. So why the turmoil since 2016? This is something that future historians will ponder, as it has transformed the British political landscape. The simple answer is that a significant part of the political class and those who control the main business lobbies decided that their interests lay in staying in or close to the EU, and that to do this they were willing to risk a political and constitutional crisis. I shall be celebrating on Friday because they have been defeated. The alternative — the quashing of the 2016 referendum, following in the footsteps of far too many European countries whose democratic choices have been overruled — would have exposed our political system and society to serious dangers. It would have meant that for the time being at least we were no longer in reality a democracy or an independent nation. Our choices would have been circumscribed by what the EU system and its domestic allies were willing to allow. Only some future domestic or European crisis could have altered that. We have seen what happens when a political system is incapable of decision, as Britain’s was between May 2017 and December 2019: differences of opinion become polarised and inflamed by continuing uncertainty. As Thomas Hobbes observed, “Sovereign authority is not so hurtful as the want of it”. The situation was aggravated by continual predictions of disaster: mass unemployment, emergency tax rises, food shortages and so on. How much was credulity? How much deliberate mischief-making? In either case, it was irresponsible; in the second, shameful. Fortunately, most people grew resistant to scaremongering, and so “sovereign authority” was restored by the December general election. Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government has many tasks, and one of them is to reassure and conciliate that section of the population that feared the economic consequences of Brexit, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Though nationalists may be irreconcilable, as they realise that Brexit ends their hopes of emulating small member states of the EU such as Slovakia or Luxembourg, for many the issue has been throughout a bread-and-butter one. Think back to the referendum, and even before that. The EU’s own opinion polls showed that only a tiny minority of the British population embraced the European “project” before 2016. The exit poll following the referendum showed the same: the overwhelming concern of Remain voters was economic. Without the “project fear” so energetically promoted by Mr Cameron and his chancellor, George Osborne, how much bigger would the Leave majority have been? Now that economic Armageddon has turned into the proverbial unicorn, we shall see how deep and wide Remainer (or Rejoiner) sentiment really is. I suspect not very. Why would it be? Project fear talked up disaster so flamboyantly that almost anything will be an anticlimax. There may be some short-term disturbance. But Brexit is economically rational. The share of Britain’s exports accounted for by the EU fell by 11 percentage points between 2006 and 2016. The EU single market gives us limited help — especially in services — and may be harming our external trade by imposing high levels of regulation and cost. A rational aim would be “frictionless trade” with as much of the world as possible, not only with the EU. Remainer predominance in business lobbies clearly did not represent either the interests or the opinions of business as a whole. As Lord Melbourne once observed, on some questions the clever fellows get it wrong and the damn fools get it right. This is one of them. Brexit Day: are we there yet? " 😉

Of course that is not  the view of the FT. It is only the view of a historian as an outside columnist, allowed to do so since the FT believes in giving space to opinions it does not at all share.

The actual view of the FT on Brexit comes in its leading article, which could not remotely be regarded as welcoming a Happy Brexit Day. instead the leader specifically warns against just the kind of potentially ruinous trade deal with the EU the goverrnment says it wants:


There is little point in trying to 'level up' UK regions while pursuing divergence from EU standards that would hobble industries that are vital to regional economies. It makes no sense to pursue a bare-bones trade deal with Britain's largest and nearest partner - the EU - in the hope of reaping benefits from a vaunted agreement  with the US that may prove illusory.

And the FT is hardly alone in this view. The Washington Post carries an article  today from Carl Bildt, the former (right-wing) Swedish prime minister (so someone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to the EU and economics and trade) that itemises  all the trade advantages the UK is giving up and the high unlikelihood of making up the loss.

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My block button is going to get a pounding in the next couple of days.

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5 minutes ago, kick it off said:

You’ve been called a racist for your frequent racist comments, not because you voted brexit

YA, WELL IF YOU THINK I HAVE, CALL IT BACK, I'VE NEVER BEEN RACIST , IT'S JUST YOU LOT CALLING OTHERS OUT.

Edited by SwindonCanary
HIGHLIGHTING

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