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The Positive Brexit Thread

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Seems like the Tories are now the party of the “working class” the “middle class” “ the upper class” and of course the “chinless toffs”.

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

More broadly, the commentariat is forced to make instant judgments and one line of analysis is that Johnson has added a whole new bloc of voters to the Tory party. I doubt that. I posted a couple of weeks back about a journalist who had toured some of these constituencies and found that while these voters didn't believe anything Corbyn said, or 99 per cent of what Johnson said, they did very much believe one of the latter's promises. That he would deliver Brexit. And they were right to. But that doesn't make them Tories, who will keep on voting that way. They voted that way because of Brexit.

 

Perhaps you are right Purple - but VW's tongue in cheek remark does point to an opportunity to Johnson, which he must surely be aware of - he's an historian and the family is dripping with politics. I also suspect that he is sufficiently narcissistic to find the prospect enticing.

But then, I'm an optimist - I think we can avoid relegation too! 😀 👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agree completely.

Johnson has the chance to go down in history as a defining figure of 21st Century British history. He's an historian, he will understand this. I am cautiously optimistic that he will use his opportunity to the benefit of more of the country than Cameron/ Clegg's largely ideological attempts to reduce the state.

Biggest concerns are the Union + the environment. - However, not happy for nations to have their independence if they want it, and the WA seems to reduce the chances of sectarian difficulties. The environment is the biggest remaining concern - and even there, there are market and political pressures that make action likely (though not as radical).

Certainly karma for Swinson and the Lib Dems. They have been pivotal to British politics for the last decade and have been disastrous. Makes you wonder what they will do next/ what they are for? Perhaps the Orange Book will be revived and they will move to the right of the Conservatives - there were, after all for several years to the left of the Labour Party.

I hope BJ will fullfill the "one nation" label, as for now at least the Tories do represent "one nation". I think he will, he is a far more liberal character than the one we have seen over the last few months in Parliament.

The environment issue is my biggest concern, having voted green ( although must confess I wouldn't have done if there was any risk of my Labour candidate winning ), I fear the government may pay lip service to the green agenda and wont have the capacity to persue it as a priority, with a lack of political force the financial drivers may trump (😉) the environmental ones. I sincerly hope they dont. As a note of optimism on this point, BJ celebrates our technology and innovation and sees this as a way to make a success out of Brexit, business developing green solutions will be supported, at least I hope this will be the case.

Edited by Van wink

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I'm utterly sick of these people

They are completly anti democratic

The news should ignore them, but they never do.

 

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56 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Lots of left wingers protesting in Londan

”Not My Prime Minister”😀

I think you will find he is.

There may be something planned for Norwich. I have been passed information that some altercations may take place in Norwich tomorrow.

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50 minutes ago, Bagster said:

I'm utterly sick of these people

They are completely anti democratic

The news should ignore them, but they never do.

They'll disappear within the next few days never to be seen again. They have to face some horrible truths:

  1. Twitter isn't representative of the country as a whole
  2. The majority of the country don't want Marxism
  3. Brexit is decided. Remain lost.

At least we can move on with our lives now!

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"Your party? Hold on a minute sister. I think you will find it’s OUR party now. Britain has Boris and a blue collar army. Nationalism is back. British people first."

Katie Hopkins.

With friends like those, who needs enemas.

Edited by Herman
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2 minutes ago, Herman said:

"Your party? Hold on a minute sister. I think you will find it’s OUR party now. Britain has Boris and a blue collar army. Nationalism is back. British people first."

Katie Hopkins.

A British Prime Minister putting Britain first. How quaint. 

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Anyway, Herman. Isn't it time to put the electioneering and sloganning on hold? The votes are in and counted and the ref has blown his whistle for game over. 

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I've lost so I'm under no pressure to fight anymore. I'm just going to have fun. Whatever happens from now on is down to you. No more scapegoats remember. 

Good night and God bless. 

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One thing you can gaurantee from this is that Labour will learn absolutely nothing from this defeat. Faced with two choices they will always choose the worst. The hard left will be scurrying around to cement their control of the party. 

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I didn't vote for a Tory Government, nor did I want  Jeremy Corbyn running the country, however, what I did want was second referendum.

Now, before you you right wing lot jump on me, here's how I see it now. I accept that there will be NO second referendum, I accept that we will leave the EU at the end of January 2020. I also see that the result DOES have some positives, ie. the certainty that business and commerce has craved for over 3 years and the fact that Boris' early ramblings seem more conciliatory and less dangerous than I might have expected.

From an EU perspective, the early signs from them is that they also accept the inevitability of Brexit and the noises coming from the seem to be positive. The paralysis  of the past 3 years will hopefully now clear away. 

I also hope that as Boris has no need to, he does't pander to the extremes such as the ERG and steers a more liberal path, and we achieve a decent deal from the EU which is softer than the RWNJ's would love to see.

Finally, let's all get behind City and help push us toward safety for the rest of the season, the debate on here was great, the nastiness between fellow supporters not so great.

OTBC

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37 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

I didn't vote for a Tory Government, nor did I want  Jeremy Corbyn running the country, however, what I did want was second referendum.

Now, before you you right wing lot jump on me, here's how I see it now. I accept that there will be NO second referendum, I accept that we will leave the EU at the end of January 2020. I also see that the result DOES have some positives, ie. the certainty that business and commerce has craved for over 3 years and the fact that Boris' early ramblings seem more conciliatory and less dangerous than I might have expected.

From an EU perspective, the early signs from them is that they also accept the inevitability of Brexit and the noises coming from the seem to be positive. The paralysis  of the past 3 years will hopefully now clear away. 

I also hope that as Boris has no need to, he does't pander to the extremes such as the ERG and steers a more liberal path, and we achieve a decent deal from the EU which is softer than the RWNJ's would love to see.

Finally, let's all get behind City and help push us toward safety for the rest of the season, the debate on here was great, the nastiness between fellow supporters not so great.

OTBC

That could happen. It might not, but it could. That said, there is one basic political reality which has applied all the way through and which will go on being applied. And that is that any Brexit deal has by definition to leave the UK economically worse off outside the EU than inside. Not revenge. Just commonsense self-preservation on the part of the EU. The UK would be demanding that the same reality apply if it was the UK that was staying and some other country leaving.

The other point is that while the markets have instantly welcomed the election result because it finally gives a definitive answer to the question of whether the UK is leaving, because the markets like certainty, it also means, for example, that companies that have been able to hold off on inward investment decisions, on the off-chance the UK might Remain, now also know that will not happen. And foreign investment into the UK has already fallen significantly.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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48 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That could happen. It might not, but it could. That said, there is one basic political reality which has applied all the way through and which will go on being applied. And that is that any Brexit deal has by definition to leave the UK economically worse off outside the EU than inside. Not revenge. Just commonsense self-preservation on the part of the EU. The UK would be demanding that the same reality apply if it was the UK that was staying and some other country leaving.

The other point is that while the markets have instantly welcomed the election result because it finally gives a definitive answer to the question of whether the UK is leaving, because the markets like certainty, it also means, for example, that companies that have been able to hold off on inward investment decisions, on the off-chance the UK might Remain, now also know that will not happen. And foreign investment into the UK has already fallen significantly.

I don't doubt your latter points Purple, but as I am still going to be living and working in this country, it's time, as the song says, to

 "Let it go"

Onwards and upwards, voted for him or not, let's give Boris a chance.

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7 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

I don't doubt your latter points Purple, but as I am still going to be living and working in this country, it's time, as the song says, to

 "Let it go"

Onwards and upwards, voted for him or not, let's give Boris a chance.

He has wide ranging support right across the country at the moment, only group missing being the lefty luvvies who will no doubt continue to cry into their pomme puree.

Edited by Van wink
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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

That could happen. It might not, but it could. That said, there is one basic political reality which has applied all the way through and which will go on being applied. And that is that any Brexit deal has by definition to leave the UK economically worse off outside the EU than inside. Not revenge. Just commonsense self-preservation on the part of the EU. The UK would be demanding that the same reality apply if it was the UK that was staying and some other country leaving.

The other point is that while the markets have instantly welcomed the election result because it finally gives a definitive answer to the question of whether the UK is leaving, because the markets like certainty, it also means, for example, that companies that have been able to hold off on inward investment decisions, on the off-chance the UK might Remain, now also know that will not happen. And foreign investment into the UK has already fallen significantly.

Yea. I'm sure we'll be punishing the Scots when they get independence.

 

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

That could happen. It might not, but it could. That said, there is one basic political reality which has applied all the way through and which will go on being applied. And that is that any Brexit deal has by definition to leave the UK economically worse off outside the EU than inside. Not revenge. Just commonsense self-preservation on the part of the EU. The UK would be demanding that the same reality apply if it was the UK that was staying and some other country leaving.

Absolutely correct. A reality some of us have been pushing since day one, but which apparently some are still not capable of admitting to themselves because "We'll get a great deal" just like Boris says, as he is a paragon of virtue and honesty in a sea full of these deceitful remainers and their horrid facts.

The best hope of this not being an unmitigated disaster is that Boris has a similar sense of self-preservation. We know he is not principled but will go whichever way the wind blows as long as it's best for Boris. Given the overwhelming majority he has, and the inroads he made into traditional Labour heartlands, will he decide that he is actually going to do some social good in a bid to try and keep them voting Tory, or will he decide that they have just leant him their vote as a one off and he has no chance of keeping them, therefore they will continue to be cannon fodder as he lines the pockets of his mates?

It's actually quite a critical moment for the Tory party as well as Labour. The only way Boris can keep the Northern bloc voting his way after Brexit is done is to give them something to vote for. Someone (apologies I forget who) stated earlier in the thread that Corbyn has shifted the paradigm in terms of pushing politics back towards the left. I'm not sure how far that bears out, but Boris will certainly have to push traditional left positions such as not destroying the NHS and education if he is to retain the support of the North further than lending him their vote once to get Brexit done.

I suspect he will continue to line the pockets of his mates, with some tokenistic bribes being thrown to the working class. Whether there is any substance to these bribes or not probably doesn't matter as it appears that they won't see through it anyway, no matter how transparent - soundbites win the day at the moment.

Edited by kick it off
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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

He has wide ranging support right across the country at the moment, only group missing being the lefty luvvies who will no doubt continue to cry into their pomme puree.

Well all my lefty luvvy friends🤩 are happily enjoying an non-English sun😎 and washing down their pains au chocolat🥖 with glasses of citron pressé...⛱️🍋

Edited by PurpleCanary

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57 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

I don't doubt your latter points Purple, but as I am still going to be living and working in this country, it's time, as the song says, to

 "Let it go"

Onwards and upwards, voted for him or not, let's give Boris a chance.

There is an eye-catching comment from the London correspondent of El Pais, one of the top Spanish papers, saying that although Johnson is usually compared to Trump the US president he most comes to resemble may be Reagan:

'... able to delegate to a competent team, indifferent to detail and blessed with the virtue of being able to transmit an optimistic version of the future at a time when it is most needed'.

The very obvious flaw in that comparison is the bit about having a competent team around him, but perhaps they will surprise us all. And it would be a surprise. And it is all very well to paint a rosy picture of the future, but after two or three years there would have to be some concrete results - literally in the case, for example, of hospitals.

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12 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

There may be something planned for Norwich. I have been passed information that some altercations may take place in Norwich tomorrow.

We got an email from my daughter's secondary school advising us about this - basically suggesting that parents think hard about letting our teenagers go into the City on their own! Refers to knife violence and young people from Great Yarmouth - apparently it is something on social media.

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1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Yea. I'm sure we'll be punishing the Scots when they get independence.

It is not a question of "punishment" Ron.

Assuming that they apply to join the EU, they will be governed by single market regulations and EU tariffs, which are likely to reduce trade between us, if we do not agree close harmonisation in a trade deal. It would also imply a border - probably something similar to Norway-Sweden.

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There was a thin book released not that long ago, to little fanfair, called the Conservative manifesto. There are a few clues in amongst the usual soundbites to some of the things they plan to "look at". Now with a very large majority these will be looked at. Get behind Johnson if you want, give him a chance also if you want, but don't get complacent. There's a very dark cloud looming and an umbrella will not be of any protection.

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50 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Absolutely correct. A reality some of us have been pushing since day one, but which apparently some are still not capable of admitting to themselves because "We'll get a great deal" just like Boris says, as he is a paragon of virtue and honesty in a sea full of these deceitful remainers and their horrid facts.

The best hope of this not being an unmitigated disaster is that Boris has a similar sense of self-preservation. We know he is not principled but will go whichever way the wind blows as long as it's best for Boris. Given the overwhelming majority he has, and the inroads he made into traditional Labour heartlands, will he decide that he is actually going to do some social good in a bid to try and keep them voting Tory, or will he decide that they have just leant him their vote as a one off and he has no chance of keeping them, therefore they will continue to be cannon fodder as he lines the pockets of his mates?

It's actually quite a critical moment for the Tory party as well as Labour. The only way Boris can keep the Northern bloc voting his way after Brexit is done is to give them something to vote for. Someone (apologies I forget who) stated earlier in the thread that Corbyn has shifted the paradigm in terms of pushing politics back towards the left. I'm not sure how far that bears out, but Boris will certainly have to push traditional left positions such as not destroying the NHS and education if he is to retain the support of the North further than lending him their vote once to get Brexit done.

I suspect he will continue to line the pockets of his mates, with some tokenistic bribes being thrown to the working class. Whether there is any substance to these bribes or not probably doesn't matter as it appears that they won't see through it anyway, no matter how transparent - soundbites win the day at the moment.

I'm not going to argue the left and right but a lot of what I see on here is correct. Industries such as mine want some certainty  (that will take at least until the summer - no WTO etc. else our own 'Operation P45' will go hand in hand with operation Yellowhammer). Some products have already 'migrated' out of the UK.

The real truth is that in 2016 most of the Brexiters were talking about what is now known as softer Brexit - Norway, EFT and similar. It got hijacked by the right wing and due to her weakness, May's red lines, into a disastrous economic proposition.

Boris quite frankly when he came to power, found himself in a corner (the Benn act) and simply surrendered to the only 'non May' deal the EU had offered - the NI 'border'. Yes it will eventually result in a reunification of Ireland but that's a price worth paying for the uber Brexiters.

So Johnson is no longer beholden to the right - he wants to leave a legacy and so yes I think he will, nay must, position himself in the middle - indeed a 'EFTA' style agreement may well now happen - probably what most Brexiters would of bitten your hand off for pre-2016 referendum! 

Now the funny thing. None of this Brexit malarky will help any of our run down areas or industries including fishing. It hampers them all (i.e. where will Grimsby send processed fish too with external Tariffs?). Brexit was simply a scapegoat for Westminster inaction. However - as Boris must somehow try to show a 'Brexit' success to these Tory voting left behind areas  he will spend oodles of money rebalancing the country - something which was long overdue anyway.

Of course the underlying economic truths still stand - many of these left behind areas only grew in the first place on heavy industries - many of which have long since collapsed anyway - never to return. Yes some towns / cities must shrink!

Edited by Yellow Fever
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15 minutes ago, Badger said:

It is not a question of "punishment" Ron.

Assuming that they apply to join the EU, they will be governed by single market regulations and EU tariffs, which are likely to reduce trade between us, if we do not agree close harmonisation in a trade deal. It would also imply a border - probably something similar to Norway-Sweden.

OK. We would ensure that Scotland would be economically worse off outside the union.

 

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