The Positive Brexit Thread

[horsefly 4,273]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You really do love slagging matches don't you? Seriously, do you really have nothing better to do? Do respond if you wish; it won't be read by me.

Please, please, please keep your promise. But do read your own words again, they are a mastery of self-parody.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

To summarise, we can all agree that the following statement is correct: The slump in exports to Japan is not a consequence of Brexit, because the Japan UK trade agreement is almost indistinguishable from the agreement we would have with Japan as EU members; this change isn't remotely a consequence of the trade agreement as the Guardian implies.

But Truss did involve Brexit by saying we could negotiate because of Brexit. Its in Hansard.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

But Truss did involve Brexit by saying we could negotiate because of Brexit. Its in Hansard.

What politicians may or may not have said does not change the fact that our export agreements with Japan are very nearly a copy and paste to those we would still have as EU members, which means Brexit will not have impacted our export demand from Japan, which is why it's somewhat ridiculous for the Guardian to connect the two. That's the only point I've made or sought to make; the export slump with Japan has nothing to do with Brexit.

When it so obviously doesn't relate to Brexit, it begs the question why everyone's so desperate to try and bring it in when there are actually plenty of legitimate things to point to regarding Brexit.

[horsefly 4,273]

34 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

But Truss did involve Brexit by saying we could negotiate because of Brexit. Its in Hansard.

Precisely! And we threw away all the massive financial advantages of being in the Single Market in order that we were able independently to negotiate a deal with Japan that LYB claims is no different from the one we already had as a member of the SM. Never mind that the right to do that has cost the country multiple billions and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future according to the government's own analysis

Edited November 27, 2022 by horsefly

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What politicians may or may not have said does not change the fact that our export agreements with Japan are very nearly a copy and paste to those we would still have as EU members, which means Brexit will not have impacted our export demand from Japan, which is why it's somewhat ridiculous for the Guardian to connect the two. That's the only point I've made or sought to make; the export slump with Japan has nothing to do with Brexit.

When it so obviously doesn't relate to Brexit, it begs the question why everyone's so desperate to try and bring it in when there are actually plenty of legitimate things to point to regarding Brexit.

I mention it because Truss used Brexit as a reason for the deal. The trade slump has nothing to do with the deal as you say but its only natural that the Guardian would tie the two together as I'm sure if were the other way round, the Express would be using Brexit as a reason.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I mention it because Truss used Brexit as a reason for the deal. The trade slump has nothing to do with the deal as you say but its only natural that the Guardian would tie the two together as I'm sure if were the other way round, the Express would be using Brexit as a reason.

Well obviously it was a reason, but only in the sense that leaving the EU necessitated replacing the Japan EU deal with a Japan UK agreement, or else face huge trade barriers with Japan; it was purposefully nearly identical to EU arrangements to maximise continuity from both sides and make it a quick process.

It's a sad state of affairs that higher standards aren't expected of the Guardian than the Express.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

54 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well obviously it was a reason, but only in the sense that leaving the EU necessitated replacing the Japan EU deal with a Japan UK agreement, or else face huge trade barriers with Japan; it was purposefully nearly identical to EU arrangements to maximise continuity from both sides and make it a quick process.

It's a sad state of affairs that higher standards aren't expected of the Guardian than the Express.

You don't really get this do you.

Even if we had exactly the same deal as with the EU we would, from the Japanese perspective, be a less significant country to trade with. The reason is simply because we are no longer part of the SM and all the advantages that gave with supply chains ... and the reason for that is Brexit.

The proof of that is simply in the trade numbers and as compared to our immediate neighbours.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

29 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

You don't really get this do you.

Even if we had exactly the same deal as with the EU we would, from the Japanese perspective, be a less significant country to trade with. The reason is simply because we are no longer part of the SM and all the advantages that gave with supply chains ... and the reason for that is Brexit.

The proof of that is simply in the trade numbers and as compared to our immediate neighbours.

I get it, but there are other things to consider in the mix: products manufactured in the UK have to meet EU standards to be exported to the EU, but we have a free reign to tweak the corporate governance and other legislation for how they operate in the UK to make it more competitive to manufacture in the UK and export to the EU in spite of the admin hurdles of the exporting process. Short sea shipping is rapidly growing between the UK and the continent, so the problems with lorry drivers being paid to sit in queues will be bypassed that way.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Well b back 3,180]

So Truss tried a bit of Trumpism, but clearly her and others don’t quite get, the average U.K. citizen no longer believes or takes in all their s***. Strangely enough the majority of people would no longer believe them if they told the truth.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

17 minutes ago, Well b back said:

So Truss tried a bit of Trumpism, but clearly her and others don’t quite get, the average U.K. citizen no longer believes or takes in all their s***. Strangely enough the majority of people would no longer believe them if they told the truth.

That's lovely. She's not PM, trade secretary, or foreign secretary any more though and we still have nearly the same trade agreement with Japan after Brexit as before Brexit; none of any of this refutes my fundamental point that the slump in exports to Japan from the UK does not stem from Brexit, contrary to the implication of the Guardian headline.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,698]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's lovely. She's not PM, trade secretary, or foreign secretary any more though and we still have nearly the same trade agreement with Japan after Brexit as before Brexit; none of any of this refutes my fundamental point that the slump in exports to Japan from the UK does not stem from Brexit, contrary to the implication of the Guardian headline.

It's very, very linked to Truss, brexit and the brexitty shenanigans, hence why I put it in the brexit thread.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well obviously it was a reason, but only in the sense that leaving the EU necessitated replacing the Japan EU deal with a Japan UK agreement, or else face huge trade barriers with Japan; it was purposefully nearly identical to EU arrangements to maximise continuity from both sides and make it a quick process.

It's a sad state of affairs that higher standards aren't expected of the Guardian than the Express.

I don't think its lower standards. They do use a lot of quotes and never directly blame Brexit. I think they are merely gloating over the way it is making many in Whitehall very uncomfortable. Especially Liz Truss.

[Well b back 3,180]

So when she thought it was good she put it in the same breath as Brexit. Now it’s not good it’s nothing to do with Brexit. Why convince us it was all better ( the deal ) because of Brexit if it was nothing to do with Brexit. She used Trumpism. Anyone defending Liz Truss after what she did to our country must want to see the U.K. sink to the bottom of the pile.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

11 minutes ago, Well b back said:

So when she thought it was good she put it in the same breath as Brexit. Now it’s not good it’s nothing to do with Brexit. Why convince us it was all better ( the deal ) because of Brexit if it was nothing to do with Brexit. She used Trumpism. Anyone defending Liz Truss after what she did to our country must want to see the U.K. sink to the bottom of the pile.

Who's defending Liz Truss? I'm talking about the substance of what happened specifically with the UK's trade agreement pre and post Brexit, not what politicians may or may not have said about the post-Brexit trade agreement. Regardless of who did it, the end result was that the UK finished up with a continuity agreement with Japan that left the UK's export landscape with Japan pretty much as it was pre-Brexit, which underlines the fundamental fact that the slump in exports to Japan from the UK is not related to Brexit.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I get it, but there are other things to consider in the mix: products manufactured in the UK have to meet EU standards to be exported to the EU, but we have a free reign to tweak the corporate governance and other legislation for how they operate in the UK to make it more competitive to manufacture in the UK and export to the EU in spite of the admin hurdles of the exporting process. Short sea shipping is rapidly growing between the UK and the continent, so the problems with lorry drivers being paid to sit in queues will be bypassed that way.

I've just spent thousands on new label sets and specific red tape certification for UKCA marking (just for the UK) as the CE marking grace period for the UK ends. Now oddly, one of the CPTTP aims is standards recognition across borders - but backwards Brexit UK is clearly doing the exact opposite - make it more difficult. But then as must be surely clear to all we excel as a country in creating more, not less paperwork - it's what the Brexiters voted for (clumsy, sclerotic extra paperwork and costs)! We invented the jobs-worth. 50,000 more customs officers, was it? Bring back the EU efficient bureaucracy any day.

Should stick with CE (as all Uk manufacturers will still want meet this) and not have some pathetic extra UK only standard.

Goes along with UK (now not GB) car stickers.

Certifiably crackers the lot of them.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[horsefly 4,273]

There is no doubt whatsoever that Brexiteers hailed the opportunity to negotiate an independent trade deal with Japan as a major triumph for Brexit. The consensus among experts is that it benefitted the Japanese more than it did the UK but on the whole was pretty much the same as what we had while in the SM. The cost of gaining that independence in negotiating trade deals was withdrawal from the SM, and the cost of that withdrawal is to be counted in multiple billions every year for the foreseeable future (4% of GDP according to the government's own figures). Insofar as the Japanese deal constitutes a part of our post-Brexit trading position it shares in that decline. We were told by Brexiteers that the whole point of preferring independence from the EU and SM was that such negotiations would result in deals far better than we could have gained by staying within that trading bloc. That was a blatant lie then and has been exposed as such by the Japanese deal and all the other subsequent negotiations. 

Yellow Fever is undoubtedly right to point out that lack of access to the SM is an obvious big disincentive to foreign investment in this country and no one should be surprised by the number of companies withdrawing from the UK and locating within the EU. My Dutch friends are delighted. It really isn't rocket science.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

Another negative Brexit effect.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/27/brexit-worsened-shortage-nhs-doctors-eu

I did wonder for fun if we should actually split the NHS in two

1. For Brexiteers only - understaffed with only a handful of Brexiter 'British' doctors and nurses - waiting lists measured in decades although of course you can always pay to go private and..

2. One for the Remainers (or lapsed reformed Quitters) - fully staffed with immigrant and British hard working doctors and nurses - efficient and a short waiting list.

Job sorted.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Well b back 3,180]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Another negative Brexit effect.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/27/brexit-worsened-shortage-nhs-doctors-eu

I did wonder for fun if we should actually split the NHS in two

1. For Brexiteers only - understaffed with only a handful of Brexiter 'British' doctors and nurses - waiting lists measured in decades although of course you can always pay to go private and..

2. One for the Remainers (or lapsed reformed Quitters) - fully staffed with immigrant and British hard working doctors and nurses - efficient and a short waiting list.

Job sorted.

Over the next few weeks the NHS will face a sustained attack from the government, telling us how we are irresponsible etc etc. 

I am afraid all this will mean is staff will be leaving at twice the current rate and we will need even more immigration from Asia, Africa and the America’s. 

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well obviously it was a reason, but only in the sense that leaving the EU necessitated replacing the Japan EU deal with a Japan UK agreement, or else face huge trade barriers with Japan; it was purposefully nearly identical to EU arrangements to maximise continuity from both sides and make it a quick process.

It's a sad state of affairs that higher standards aren't expected of the Guardian than the Express.

The Observer's piece today quotes information from June, based on a report by two academics at the University of Sussex. I've accessed the official trade database of the Office for National Statistics and extracted the figures for goods exports to Japan up to the end of September. This covers the two-year period since Truss signed the trade deal with Japan in October 2020:

UK goods exports to Japan have increased in the last two years, in £’s millions

Oct 2019 - Sep 2020 : £5,967
Oct 2020 - Sep 2021 : £6,220
Oct 2021 - Sep 2022 : £6,248

[Source: Office for National Statistics, accessed 27 Nov 2022.] 

 

The Rejoiner onslaught against Brexit is relentless, as this morning’s Observer headline and article demonstrates.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Over the next few weeks the NHS will face a sustained attack from the government, telling us how we are irresponsible etc etc. 

I am afraid all this will mean is staff will be leaving at twice the current rate and we will need even more immigration from Asia, Africa and the America’s. 

Sadly WBB (and I respect your change of heart) until we admit to ourselves our true predicament and the mistake we made all in the name of 'immigration' fears - as opposed to the reality and UK needs with an ageing population we will continue as a country in a downward economic spiral.

Admit the problems and we might have some hope of fixing it.

Oddly, there are lots of discussion above about Japan - a country I know well and chat to almost daily. One of the strongest messages I learnt years ago working in a Japanese company in Tokyo (I still have my Pasmo card but no Oyster one 😉) was to admit quicky if you had made a mistake or a bad judgement - there was no disgrace in saying I got it wrong but every disgrace in covering it up. Saying you got it wrong early gave the company time to fix it - and oddly from this it followed that the senior managers were then also well respected by us underlings as they would publicly take the blame for our errors! Upward accountably - so sadly lacking in the current Tory/Brexit party and dare I say UK culture at large. 

Japan by the way is also encouraging immigration - it realized it needs it as it also has a very ageing demographic (a close friend's grandmother is also in a care home etc). 

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

40 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The Observer's piece today quotes information from June, based on a report by two academics at the University of Sussex. I've accessed the official trade database of the Office for National Statistics and extracted the figures for goods exports to Japan up to the end of September. This covers the two-year period since Truss signed the trade deal with Japan in October 2020:

UK goods exports to Japan have increased in the last two years, in £’s millions

Oct 2019 - Sep 2020 : £5,967
Oct 2020 - Sep 2021 : £6,220
Oct 2021 - Sep 2022 : £6,248

[Source: Office for National Statistics, accessed 27 Nov 2022.] 

 

The Rejoiner onslaught against Brexit is relentless, as this morning’s Observer headline and article demonstrates.

Please adjust for value of pound.

You might also like this government report linked to in the original article... or perhaps not ...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1117781/japan-trade-and-investment-factsheet-2022-11-18.pdf

Edited November 27, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Sadly WBB (and I respect your change of heart) until we admit to ourselves our true predicament and the mistake we made all in the name of 'immigration' fears - as opposed to the reality and UK needs with an ageing population we will continue as a country in a downward economic spiral.

Admit the problems and we might have some hope of fixing it.

Oddly, there are lots of discussion above about Japan - a country I know well and chat to almost daily. One of the strongest messages I learnt years ago working in a Japanese company in Tokyo (I still have my Pasmo card but no Oyster one 😉) was to admit quicky if you had made a mistake or a bad judgement - there was no disgrace in saying I got it wrong but every disgrace in covering it up. Saying you got it wrong early gave the company time to fix it - and oddly from this it followed that the senior managers were then also well respected by us underlings as they would publicly take the blame for our errors! Upward accountably - so sadly lacking in the current Tory/Brexit party and dare I say UK culture at large. 

Japan by the way is also encouraging immigration - it realized it needs it as it also has a very ageing demographic (a close friend's grandmother is also in a care home etc). 

An interesting complement to that is that the Japanese have been our most energetic proponents regarding CPTPP admission; they've been probably the UK's biggest ally in stabilising things post-Brexit.

Actually, in trying to find a link regarding their original contribution to facilitating accession, apparently they're saying we may have final agreement this  year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/10/09/business/japan-britain-trans-pacific-free-trade-pact/

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

23 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

An interesting complement to that is that the Japanese have been our most energetic proponents regarding CPTPP admission; they've been probably the UK's biggest ally in stabilising things post-Brexit.

Actually, in trying to find a link regarding their original contribution to facilitating accession, apparently they're saying we may have final agreement this  year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/10/09/business/japan-britain-trans-pacific-free-trade-pact/

CPTTP was Abe's baby who kept it alive after Trump pulled out.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Sadly WBB (and I respect your change of heart) until we admit to ourselves our true predicament and the mistake we made all in the name of 'immigration' fears - as opposed to the reality and UK needs with an ageing population we will continue as a country in a downward economic spiral.

Admit the problems and we might have some hope of fixing it.

Oddly, there are lots of discussion above about Japan - a country I know well and chat to almost daily. One of the strongest messages I learnt years ago working in a Japanese company in Tokyo (I still have my Pasmo card but no Oyster one 😉) was to admit quicky if you had made a mistake or a bad judgement - there was no disgrace in saying I got it wrong but every disgrace in covering it up. Saying you got it wrong early gave the company time to fix it - and oddly from this it followed that the senior managers were then also well respected by us underlings as they would publicly take the blame for our errors! Upward accountably - so sadly lacking in the current Tory/Brexit party and dare I say UK culture at large. 

Japan by the way is also encouraging immigration - it realized it needs it as it also has a very ageing demographic (a close friend's grandmother is also in a care home etc). 

The problems we have concerning the NHS, amongst many other problems, is because of mass immigration. 

Net immigration in the year to June 2022 totaled a record 504,000, which accounts for the rise in the number of people registered at GP practices in England alone. There's been 2.5m extra registrations with GPs over the past five years and people are wondering why they can't get a doctors/dentist appointment.

And you think further immigration's the answer?  

The Left keep telling us we need immigrants to staff the NHS, so answer me this: How many of those 504,000 are trained doctors/dentists/nurses?

 

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

The OECD last Tuesday stated the UK will be the fastest-growing economy in the G7 again this year...

Is that because of Brexit or despite it?

Brexit Britain tops the table of G7 major economies for predicted economic growth in 2022

1. United Kingdom : 4.43%
2. Italy : 3.70%
3. Canada : 3.25%
4. France : 2.55%
5. United States : 1.85%
6. Germany : 1.77%
7. Japan : 1.57%

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

7 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The OECD last Tuesday stated the UK will be the fastest-growing economy in the G7 again this year...

Is that because of Brexit or despite it?

Brexit Britain tops the table of G7 major economies for predicted economic growth in 2022

1. United Kingdom : 4.43%
2. Italy : 3.70%
3. Canada : 3.25%
4. France : 2.55%
5. United States : 1.85%
6. Germany : 1.77%
7. Japan : 1.57%

And if were to take an axe to EU regulations still holding us back we would be doing even better, but our globalist government is hardly going to do that is it?

You/We are all being taken for fools.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Hook's-Walk-Canary

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

This is the OECD data September 2022... the last I'm aware of

https://read.oecd.org/10.1787/ae8c39ec-en?format=html,pdf

We are bottom for predicted growth apart from Russia.

Simplified version for you not in dispute.

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63704841.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16695930644938&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

Now where is your link?

Edited November 27, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is the OECD data September 2022... the last I'm aware of

https://read.oecd.org/10.1787/ae8c39ec-en?format=html,pdf

We are bottom for predicted growth apart from Russia.

Now where is your link?

Sept 2022 OECD forecast for 2022 was at 3.4% and now it's at 4.4%, YF.
 

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

8 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Sept 2022 OECD forecast for 2022 was at 3.4% and now it's at 4.4%, YF.
 

No .. this is November

Bottom I'm afraid.

https://www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/november-2022/#gdp

Edited November 28, 2022 by Yellow Fever
Ok. I'm talking 2023 not 2022

[Well b back 3,180]

Plenty of Trumpism going on here, no one believes the made up s*** anymore