Yellow Fever 3,689 Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said: Getting back to the Northern Ireland agreement, that triumph of Johnsonian diplomacy... The danger for the EU was that it would make a concession here and then a concession there, in the mistaken hope that Johnson was negotiating honestly and would eventually settle on something that kept the essence of the deal intact. Whereas Johnson wants in effect to scrap the entire deal, and would go on demanding more and more concessions, gambling that he was calling the EU's bluff, based on the assumption that it would never go for either of the nuclear options of turning the border ultra-hard or moving it into the island of Ireland. But for the rolling-concession strategy to work Johnson needs a subtle negotiator, clever enough to fool the best minds of the EU into thinking they are dealing with people as reasonable and pragmatic as themselves. Instead Johnson has chosen Lord Frost, who with his megaphone 'diplomacy' and rejections of offers before they have been tabled makes a bull in a china shop look like something out of the corps de ballet by comparison. The result, as Eire's Coveney made clear today, is not only that the EU has no illusions about what endgame Johnson wants but is now prepared to say so publicly, instead of pretending to give him the dubious benefit of the doubt. The EU is close to the end of the road with the UK over the Northern Ireland protocol, accusing David Frost, the Brexit minister, of trying to undermine serious attempts to solve the problem, the Irish foreign minister has said. Simon Coveney said he had spoken to Lord Frost’s counterpart, the European Commission vice-president, Maroš Šefčovič, on Sunday. They have agreed there would come a point when “the EU will say: enough, we cannot compromise any more”, Coveney said. Trade war looms as UK set to spurn EU offer on Northern Ireland Read more Coveney tweeted on Saturday night questioning whether the UK actually wanted “an agreed way forward or a further breakdown in relations”. Read the same - and I actually think that Johnson wants/needs to paint/keep (for internal thick Brexity consumption only) the EU as the bogeyman. Of course the EU are trying to solve practical issues and even bend a bit to neuter a few 'iconic' politicized ones i.e. sausages but even they are probably close to throwing in the towel, accept the UK as an untrustworthy partner (no English Gentlemen / word is my bond negotiators present) and rip up the deal. Of course it would spell utter disaster for Sunderland among many others. That of course is the ultimate 'positive' outcome of Brexit. Such a kick up the backside for the Brexiteers that they'll never forget - a full on economic reset to shove them into the 21st century from their daydream mid 20th century mindset. A start again with no delusions of grandeur or imperial might much as Europe and Japan went through. Welcome to the modern world. Edited October 11, 2021 by Yellow Fever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 11, 2021 Of course we were told that the EU would roll over because they needed us more than the other way round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,583 Posted October 11, 2021 This could go in a couple of threads but as it is about one of the chief Brexwits I'll stick it here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,976 Posted October 11, 2021 3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said: Of course we were told that the EU would roll over because they needed us more than the other way round. We were indeed but as the old saying goes - "you didn't have to be incredibly stupid to vote for Brexit but it certainly helped" 😂😂 Apologies in advance to anyone who wasn't taken in by the myths and the lies about Brexit and voted for it for what seemed like a good reason to them but if this was the case you were in a tiny minority of Brexit voters, most of whom believed this sort of tripe and apparently still do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,447 Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, PurpleCanary said: Getting back to the Northern Ireland agreement, that triumph of Johnsonian diplomacy... The danger for the EU was that it would make a concession here and then a concession there, in the mistaken hope that Johnson was negotiating honestly and would eventually settle on something that kept the essence of the deal intact. Whereas Johnson wants in effect to scrap the entire deal, and would go on demanding more and more concessions, gambling that he was calling the EU's bluff, based on the assumption that it would never go for either of the nuclear options of turning the border ultra-hard or moving it into the island of Ireland. But for the rolling-concession strategy to work Johnson needs a subtle negotiator, clever enough to fool the best minds of the EU into thinking they are dealing with people as reasonable and pragmatic as themselves. Instead Johnson has chosen Lord Frost, who with his megaphone 'diplomacy' and rejections of offers before they have been tabled makes a bull in a china shop look like something out of the corps de ballet by comparison. The result, as Eire's Coveney made clear today, is not only that the EU has no illusions about what endgame Johnson wants but is now prepared to say so publicly, instead of pretending to give him the dubious benefit of the doubt. The EU is close to the end of the road with the UK over the Northern Ireland protocol, accusing David Frost, the Brexit minister, of trying to undermine serious attempts to solve the problem, the Irish foreign minister has said. Simon Coveney said he had spoken to Lord Frost’s counterpart, the European Commission vice-president, Maroš Šefčovič, on Sunday. They have agreed there would come a point when “the EU will say: enough, we cannot compromise any more”, Coveney said. Trade war looms as UK set to spurn EU offer on Northern Ireland Read more Coveney tweeted on Saturday night questioning whether the UK actually wanted “an agreed way forward or a further breakdown in relations”. Click to read the thread PC. It's a tentative forecast...what kind of behaviour we might see being played out by the government (right up to the next election...which may be sooner than expected). Johnson will want to use the EU as a scapegoat. Edited October 11, 2021 by sonyc Grammar 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,583 Posted October 11, 2021 A depressing and highly plausible thread. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,975 Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) Em, who do we believe, Nobel Prize winning economist or @Fen Canary? Edited October 12, 2021 by BigFish 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 12, 2021 On 11/10/2021 at 00:10, Icecream Snow said: Wonder what happened to Moy? It's just Swindo and RTB left to fly the flag If you look at the whole of Britain you will see it's you lot that are ' left to fly the flag' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,689 Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, sonyc said: Click to read the thread PC. It's a tentative forecast...what kind of behaviour we might see being played out by the government (right up to the next election...which may be sooner than expected). Johnson will want to use the EU as a scapegoat. This is all very plausible but the EU has no doubt 'gamed' this out as well. As to NI - If I was the EU I would already be in talks with Biden for the Yanks to help man an Irish land border in extremis if Johnson tries to call the EU's bluff and they are forced reinstate the land customs border. That and of course as well as calling for border poll with the Yanks at the UN & surgical economic hits to the car industry and city interests (You're on your own Nissan but BMW here's £10Bn to relocate to mainland Europe). At the end of the day you have to strand up and be counted to bullies / fraudsters. Edited October 12, 2021 by Yellow Fever In short if Johnson attempt to rip up the protocol then the UK becomes a pariah state. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,263 Posted October 12, 2021 22 hours ago, Mr Apples said: This nation's last two great patriots. 🤣 Apples An anagram of patriots is "Oi pratts". Just saying! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,263 Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, BigFish said: Em, who do we believe, Nobel Prize winning economist or @Fen Canary? Haha! I was called a fuc*king idiot by FenCanary for disputing the tripe he posted, so I presume he will call the nobel prize winner and Bank of England "fuc*king idiots" too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,263 Posted October 12, 2021 51 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: If you look at the whole of Britain you will see it's you lot that are ' left to fly the flag' Now try saying something that is remotely intelligible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,689 Posted October 12, 2021 Listening to the expected diatribe / pre-amble to Frost's speech explaining how he negotiated such a dreadful hopeless deal (by his own reckoning) I was expecting his resignation. One can hope. An utter chump chop. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,583 Posted October 12, 2021 This thing is still up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 12, 2021 Reading Frost's speech, it does seem more and more suspiciously like they want to trigger Article 16 and once again lie, twist and fudge that it is the EU's fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,583 Posted October 12, 2021 We're all a bit like Daryl. https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/call-daryl-oasis-of-truth-world-of-lies/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 12, 2021 Ah yes. The Russia report. Redwash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,139 Posted October 12, 2021 @SwindonCanary Why did you have to lie to us about Poland ? You told us you will recall the people of Poland wish to leave the EU, this is, as shown over the weekend a complete and utter fantasy. A minority of mps managed to get through court whatever it was, however instead of following the Polish nutters ( who made themselves to look like Farage and Johnson ), the people of Poland mobilised on the streets to show their anger that leaving the EU was even suggested. These were not small demonstrations they were 100’s of thousands. So I ask why did you tell us ‘ the people of Poland ‘ want to leave the EU ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,689 Posted October 12, 2021 A straight forward question for everybody. I'm totally dismayed that people like Johnson and Frost apparently represent the UK overseas. It's simply shaming. Are you ? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,583 Posted October 12, 2021 23 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: A straight forward question for everybody. I'm totally dismayed that people like Johnson and Frost apparently represent the UK overseas. It's simply shaming. Are you ? Put it this way. If this was a book/film about some foreign agents taking over a country and destroying it from the inside it would be deemed too far fetched. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,167 Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Herman said: This thing is still up. Warning May contain contents made by nuts Edited October 12, 2021 by How I Wrote Elastic Man 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,263 Posted October 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said: An utter chump chop. Another thing the Northern Irish can't import! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,976 Posted October 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, Herman said: What indeed should we make of Frost's speech............................personally I'm happy to go Michael Dougan's pithy but entirely accurate summary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 12, 2021 14 hours ago, horsefly said: Now try saying something that is remotely intelligible. YOU LOT ARE OUT NUMBERED WHEN YOU COUNT THE WHOLE OF BRITAIN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 12, 2021 Brexit Has Finally Reached France - YouTube Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,583 Posted October 13, 2021 20 hours ago, horsefly said: Now try saying something that is remotely intelligible. Swindo? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,263 Posted October 13, 2021 7 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: YOU LOT ARE OUT NUMBERED WHEN YOU COUNT THE WHOLE OF BRITAIN Now stop pretending that you can count beyond 10, no one is going to be convinced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted October 13, 2021 On 11/10/2021 at 17:08, PurpleCanary said: Getting back to the Northern Ireland agreement, that triumph of Johnsonian diplomacy... The danger for the EU was that it would make a concession here and then a concession there, in the mistaken hope that Johnson was negotiating honestly and would eventually settle on something that kept the essence of the deal intact. Whereas Johnson wants in effect to scrap the entire deal, and would go on demanding more and more concessions, gambling that he was calling the EU's bluff, based on the assumption that it would never go for either of the nuclear options of turning the border ultra-hard or moving it into the island of Ireland. But for the rolling-concession strategy to work Johnson needs a subtle negotiator, clever enough to fool the best minds of the EU into thinking they are dealing with people as reasonable and pragmatic as themselves. Instead Johnson has chosen Lord Frost, who with his megaphone 'diplomacy' and rejections of offers before they have been tabled makes a bull in a china shop look like something out of the corps de ballet by comparison. The result, as Eire's Coveney made clear today, is not only that the EU has no illusions about what endgame Johnson wants but is now prepared to say so publicly, instead of pretending to give him the dubious benefit of the doubt. The EU is close to the end of the road with the UK over the Northern Ireland protocol, accusing David Frost, the Brexit minister, of trying to undermine serious attempts to solve the problem, the Irish foreign minister has said. Simon Coveney said he had spoken to Lord Frost’s counterpart, the European Commission vice-president, Maroš Šefčovič, on Sunday. They have agreed there would come a point when “the EU will say: enough, we cannot compromise any more”, Coveney said. Trade war looms as UK set to spurn EU offer on Northern Ireland Read more Coveney tweeted on Saturday night questioning whether the UK actually wanted “an agreed way forward or a further breakdown in relations”. The leaked EU proposals go beyond what one might have expected. France apparently is not happy, and I am not surprised. That said, there is no sign of any movement on the role of the ECJ, which Frost and Bojo have turned into the potential casus belli. A likely explanation is that if these compromises get turned down then that will convince everyone in the EU that the UK has no intention of doing a deal. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites