The Positive Brexit Thread

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

WOW! Simply astounding hypocrisy and shirking of responsibility from this cabinet of lying spivs and chancers:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/businesses-have-become-drunk-on-cheap-labour-say-tories/ar-AAP8tXl?ocid=msedgntp

Businesses have become ‘drunk on cheap labour’, say Tories

British businesses have become "drunk on cheap labour", Cabinet ministers believe, with the Government insisting that industry must shoulder the responsibility for petrol and food shortages.

One senior source said "a failure of the free market, not the state" was behind the fuel crisis and empty shelves.

Just let that last sentence sink in for a brief moment, and then remind yourself that it is the TORIES who have been in power for the last 11 years. It is the TORIES who have implemented and supported the free market economics that has enabled employers to exploit cheap labour during their reign; it is the TORIES who for 11 years have failed to implement policies to prevent that exploitation. They could have enforced a much higher minimum wage, they could have reintroduced wages councils (or similar), they could have legislated for a maximum percentage gap between the highest and lowest earners in a company. Indeed, there are limitless legislative possibilities they simply refused to consider in addressing the disgrace of poverty pay. NOTHING forced them to accept "free market" exploitation of the labour market, least of all membership of the EU. This was the economic path that the GOVERNMENT freely chose. It is absolutely a FAILURE OF THE STATE that we find ourselves where we are. This abnegation of responsibility for the dreadful mess they have made of just about every aspect of the economy and brexit is the true mark of this worthless bunch of spivs.

Absolutely spot on and I can only think of one thing to add - not only are the Tories total hypocrites and have failed in all the ways you describe, they have also actively pushed public services which were working extremely well into the private sector in the stupid and purely ideological belief that the free market always does it better.

There have been a great many failures of the 'free market' over the last fifteen years but not one of them have stopped the Tories trying to extend its role in our society and frequently to benefit their mates and paymasters.

Our recent favourite crises are simply the latest examples of repeated and massive failures of the state, or more precisely successive Tory governments - economic illiterates, uncaring, incompetent, corrupt and deceitful who have turned this country back into the 'sick man of Europe'.

[MooreMarriot 310]

Just to upset our fishermen even more I see the French have put up a candidate in the forthcoming Presidential  election with the provocative name  of Poisson . Shameful.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by MooreMarriot

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

43 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

Just to upset our fishermen even more I see the French have put up a candidate in the forthcoming Presidential  election with the provocative name  of Poisson . Shameful.

 

 

I wouldn't worry about our fishermen (and farmers). Johnson doesn't.

Apparently the pain they are going through at the moment is just part of a transition to a more productive & skilled economy obviously without them.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

Now then! 

 

[Herman 9,756]

 

[sonyc 5,514]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I wouldn't worry about our fishermen (and farmers). Johnson doesn't.

Apparently the pain they are going through at the moment is just part of a transition to a more productive & skilled economy obviously without them.

We've no need to worry have we? As Johnson puts it - demand and supply will equalise. As demand and supply always does of course (🤨) and this little transition might take a year or two. The fishermen just need to wait a while and the free market will adjust itself.

....Same with the fuel situation, apparently also a problem of the free market. It's been "too drunk" on cheap labour allegedly. All of which has been achieved with a lack of state intervention and deregulated conditions. Who could have guessed that businesses large and small would have tried to make the biggest profits they could by paying the least amount of labour rates possible? 

Wish though in retrospect he could have told us all this at the time of the Brexit vote - it was all part of a big plan to equalise an unfair economy....but of course all we got then was the 'sunny uplands' mantra instead. People voted for that and Johnny Foreigner being stopped.

I say all this with complete sarcasm of course because any benign description of it actually is rather uncomfortable. What kind of message does the Tory Party think this might play to? Is it likely to be welcomed by small business? By fishermen? The hospitality sector? The latter struggling to recruit, even trying to re-new businesses post Covid? That there's nothing a government needs to do? It's about the long term?

It will be interesting to see what the public does think about the economy in the short and medium term. 

The two biggest cheers today from the Tory faithful was Patel's announcement on refugees and on ending of free movement. Just let us reflect on that for some minutes. This is our country in 2021. And it will become harder to protest soon if you don't like aspects. We are swinging very far right. And we are doing it with smirks and deafness and jokes.

Exit: Marina Hyde quoted here:

Edited October 5, 2021 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,203]

I see @SwindonCanary you disapproved of my post calling Johnson a liar ( even though that’s what your post stated ). Today he said the problems are worldwide, especially in Europe. This is going to be a tough winter for many, but hunt the internet all I can, I can find in the EU no farmers on the verge of having to kill and burn their livestock, I see no evidence of fruit farmers not having a large workforce, I find no queues at petrol stations, I see fully stocked supermarket shelves. I see some EU countries reducing their Coronavirus rates rapidly, mainly down to their huge uptakes of vaccine, I even see them selling us 96 million doses of Pfizer as it appears we didn’t invest in the most used vaccines.

When I look back I see from Brexit we were misled into thinking there would be £350 million a week going into the NHS, while the truth is we have raised NI by 1.25 % simply to pay for booster jabs ( whatever they may tell you ). We were promised immediate improvement to our standards of living, we now find out immediate means 10 years with a lot of destroying lots of people’s lifestyles. I hear we need to give HGV drivers, fruit pickers ect huge pay rises, yet in the NHS 1% is banded around and hatred stoked up against doctors and nurses. If doctors and nurses are s*** on what next will the army be running our hospitals, people will be following our European friends in leaving. I know many that came out of retirement to help but will be back to retirement next year.

Have you had anyone in your family die from cancer ? If so even you must have lost complete respect for the t*** when he said higher wages were more important than cancer.

 

 

 

[sonyc 5,514]

48 minutes ago, Well b back said:

yet in the NHS 1% is banded around and hatred stoked up against doctors and nurses. If doctors and nurses are s*** on what next will the army be running our hospitals

I'm sure you've read about this speech WBB. As ever, the responses indicate what many people feel about it....click on the live link. 

People asking what a government is even for given that the state should not be responsible for so many things!

Quite a telling speech. It helps me to really understand what this government is about, their values etc

Edited October 5, 2021 by sonyc

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

On 04/10/2021 at 08:38, horsefly said:

You really are a buffoon! The issue is about whether removal of this money will plunge the poorest families into unacceptable poverty. The "temporary" £20 was originally deemed necessary to enable those families to cope with the extra costs incurred because of covid. As a result of brexit and this government's economic failures those conditions have considerably worsened for those families. The NI increase, rampant inflation resulting in rising food prices, a massive hike in fuel bills will devastate the budgets of many families. Thus, if the extra £20 on UC was necessary when it was first introduced, it is absolutely necessary now given that the financial predicament of those in receipt of it has considerably worsened. The issue of the "temporal" nature of the £20 addition to UC is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether or not it should be maintained (even some far-right Tories have managed to grasp that simple logic).

I think you are the buffoon here. There is no rampant inflation. Currently, the inflation rate is 3.2% up because of a very low base of twelve months ago where the very successful Eat Out to Help Out campaign reduced prices and various VAT reductions in some sectors. The main price increases in the past year have been in transport costs and hospitality, which falls mainly on the working population and not those in poverty. In fact, inflation actually fell to 2% in July 2021 from 2.5% June 2021. So your whole argument is, once again not based on any facts in this universe but just your usual made-up nonsense.

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

On 04/10/2021 at 08:24, horsefly said:

And he has pointed out in many interviews that the industry told the government many months ago that they needed staff to rear Turkeys back in June/July. Thanks to brexit UK producers will be selling massively fewer Turkeys this year, and the sale of Turkeys into the UK from the EU will massively increase. And there was me thinking that the whole point of brexit was supposed to be about supporting UK manufacturing and sales rather than the EU, silly me!

It's not up to the government to provide workers for the turkey industry. It is up to business to plan, they've had six years, and raise wages and provide proper working conditions that are attractive for working people. One of the great benefits of brexit is going to be decent wages in key sectors as for far too long business leaders have become drunk on cheap, exploitable foreign labour. Anyone who thinks our working people should be paid a real living wage should be supporting brexit.

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

14 hours ago, horsefly said:

Spot on from Coe. Funny that for years remainers were told their predictions of food shortages and spiraling price rises were all a part of the mythology of "project fear". Now all of a sudden we are told they are an essential part of the brexit plan to turn us all into high wage earners.

There is no food shortage. Prices are not spiralling. Do some work for a change.

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

9 hours ago, horsefly said:

WOW! Simply astounding hypocrisy and shirking of responsibility from this cabinet of lying spivs and chancers:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/businesses-have-become-drunk-on-cheap-labour-say-tories/ar-AAP8tXl?ocid=msedgntp

Businesses have become ‘drunk on cheap labour’, say Tories

British businesses have become "drunk on cheap labour", Cabinet ministers believe, with the Government insisting that industry must shoulder the responsibility for petrol and food shortages.

One senior source said "a failure of the free market, not the state" was behind the fuel crisis and empty shelves.

Just let that last sentence sink in for a brief moment, and then remind yourself that it is the TORIES who have been in power for the last 11 years. It is the TORIES who have implemented and supported the free market economics that has enabled employers to exploit cheap labour during their reign; it is the TORIES who for 11 years have failed to implement policies to prevent that exploitation. They could have enforced a much higher minimum wage, they could have reintroduced wages councils (or similar), they could have legislated for a maximum percentage gap between the highest and lowest earners in a company. Indeed, there are limitless legislative possibilities they simply refused to consider in addressing the disgrace of poverty pay. NOTHING forced them to accept "free market" exploitation of the labour market, least of all membership of the EU. This was the economic path that the GOVERNMENT freely chose. It is absolutely a FAILURE OF THE STATE that we find ourselves where we are. This abnegation of responsibility for the dreadful mess they have made of just about every aspect of the economy and brexit is the true mark of this worthless bunch of spivs.

I'm beginning to think you are a parody account, albeit a very poor attempt at one. British companies have been exploiting cheap foreign labour as a consequence of our membership of the EU, which as you know but failed to mention, allows for freedom of movement across member states. 

It is not the responsibility of the government to recruit - or ban - workers. And while we were in the EU companies were able to recruit drivers from member states with much worse driving standards and accident rates that this country. They were forced to work long hours for low pay in often unsanitary conditions because the companies knew they did not have to provide decent working conditions or decent salaries. Since Brexit that pool of labour has dried up and now British companies will have to pay a decent salary and working conditions, plus training for British truck drivers on British roads.

In fact, the free market is already at work, restructuring the conditions of work for HGV drivers. Several companies now offer generous bonuses for new drivers to sign up. Wages are increasing for key workers. Perhaps if your turkey farmer pulls his finger out and stops expecting the government to do everything for him. he might find time to advertise for new staff at realistic wages and solve his own problems.

[Herman 9,756]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

There is no food shortage. Prices are not spiralling. Do some work for a change.

There is and they are.

[Herman 9,756]

Boris's speech today. Will they fall for it? 🤨

[BigFish 1,986]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I think you are the buffoon here. There is no rampant inflation. Currently, the inflation rate is 3.2% up because of a very low base of twelve months ago where the very successful Eat Out to Help Out campaign reduced prices and various VAT reductions in some sectors. The main price increases in the past year have been in transport costs and hospitality, which falls mainly on the working population and not those in poverty. In fact, inflation actually fell to 2% in July 2021 from 2.5% June 2021. So your whole argument is, once again not based on any facts in this universe but just your usual made-up nonsense.

The number of workers in poverty has increased in recent years. Just under half of workers in poverty are full-time employees, just over 30 per cent are part-time employees and around 20 per cent are self-employed.

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's not up to the government to provide workers for the turkey industry. It is up to business to plan, they've had six years, and raise wages and provide proper working conditions that are attractive for working people. One of the great benefits of brexit is going to be decent wages in key sectors as for far too long business leaders have become drunk on cheap, exploitable foreign labour. Anyone who thinks our working people should be paid a real living wage should be supporting brexit.

UK pig farmers begin culling healthy animals amid major labour shortage

So it not just Turkeys, but Pigs, oh and fuel tanker drivers, hospitality, health and care. The government were boosting about 1 million unfilled vacancies so it couldn't really be a surprise. Just truely extraordinary levels of ignorance and incompetance. Thatcher took a decade of misery to build this economy and pissed up the wall all the UK's North Sea oil revenues doing it. Do the homework @Rock The Boat. Now Johnson is destroying it with no plan of what he will put in place.

Edited October 6, 2021 by BigFish
Blimey you can write pissed

[horsefly 4,298]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The main price increases in the past year have been in transport costs and hospitality, which falls mainly on the working population and not those in poverty. In fact, inflation actually fell to 2% in July 2021 from 2.5% June 2021. So your whole argument is, once again not based on any facts in this universe but just your usual made-up nonsense.

Thick as shi*te as ever:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices

14/09/2021 · The Consumer Prices Index including owner occupiers' housing costs (CPIH) rose by 3.0% in the 12 months to August 2021, up from 2.1% in the 12 months to July. The increase of 0.9 percentage points is the largest increase ever recorded in the CPIH National Statistic 12-month inflation rate series, which began in January 2006; however, this is ...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/05/bank-of-england-uk-inflation-interest-rates-prices

Bank of England warns inflation will hit 4% this year but holds interest rates

Just how thick and ill-informed do you have to be to make the following claim, "The main price increases in the past year have been in transport costs and hospitality, which falls mainly on the working population and not those in poverty." You are clearly totally ignorant of the fact that nearly half of those claiming UC are actually in work, how extraordinarily dumb to think that those in work can't also be in poverty. 

Just how thick and ill-informed do you have to be not to have heard of the economic phenomenon of "wage-price spiral". 

Just how thick and ill-informed do you need to be not to realise that the vast majority of workers on minimum pay will get nothing like a 4% increase in their wages.

I could go on but we're all very familiar with your pig-ignorance.

[horsefly 4,298]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's not up to the government to provide workers for the turkey industry. It is up to business to plan, they've had six years, and raise wages and provide proper working conditions that are attractive for working people. One of the great benefits of brexit is going to be decent wages in key sectors as for far too long business leaders have become drunk on cheap, exploitable foreign labour. Anyone who thinks our working people should be paid a real living wage should be supporting brexit.

Jesus Christ you're so dumb. Your slavish, ill-informed repetition of Boris Johnson's new two-week old conversion to an anti-free market stance on business is truly pathetic. Businesses quite rightly act within the laws of the country that are legislated by the government. For the last 11 years the Tory government has supported the free-market approach for which their are synonymous. They could have legislated for a higher wage economy but chose not to. To turn on business and claim that within the last two weeks they should have done the government's job for them is frankly astonishing. Only the truly thick would fall for this transparently obvious attempt to shirk the government's responsibility for the catastrophic mess they have plunged the country into. But then, you are truly ignorant.

I guess you are also totally ignorant of the higher wages paid to the populations of many EU member states. Brexit will see record levels of poverty in this country.

[horsefly 4,298]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'm beginning to think you are a parody account, albeit a very poor attempt at one. British companies have been exploiting cheap foreign labour as a consequence of our membership of the EU, which as you know but failed to mention, allows for freedom of movement across member states. 

It is not the responsibility of the government to recruit - or ban - workers. And while we were in the EU companies were able to recruit drivers from member states with much worse driving standards and accident rates that this country. They were forced to work long hours for low pay in often unsanitary conditions because the companies knew they did not have to provide decent working conditions or decent salaries. Since Brexit that pool of labour has dried up and now British companies will have to pay a decent salary and working conditions, plus training for British truck drivers on British roads.

In fact, the free market is already at work, restructuring the conditions of work for HGV drivers. Several companies now offer generous bonuses for new drivers to sign up. Wages are increasing for key workers. Perhaps if your turkey farmer pulls his finger out and stops expecting the government to do everything for him. he might find time to advertise for new staff at realistic wages and solve his own problems.

Hahahahaha! What a remarkable pile of sh*te from beginning to end. 

1. British companies have been exploiting cheap foreign labour as a consequence of our membership of the EU, which as you know but failed to mention, allows for freedom of movement across member states.  Total bollox of course. NOTHING in our membership of the EU prevented the government from increasing the minimum wage or legislating many other measures to ensure that businesses couldn't exploit cheap labour. So that's a straightforward LIE.

2. It is not the responsibility of the government to recruit - or ban - workers. The government HAS BANNED foreign workers you f'ing idiot, that's why businesses have to engage in the absurdly bureaucratic processes of gaining visas for the workers THEY are trying to hire.

3. They were forced to work long hours for low pay. NO worker was "FORCED" to do that work you buffoon. Further, the conditions under which they worked had to conform to minimal standards that are determined by the GOVERNMENT's employment laws (How can anyone fail to know these simple facts???).

4.  Since Brexit that pool of labour has dried up and now British companies will have to pay a decent salary and working conditions, plus training for British truck drivers on British roads. How many times does it need to be pointed out that the GOVERNMENT has always had the legislative power to address these issues. There has never been a need to visit the calamity of brexit on the nation to improve the pay and conditions of workers in this country. This point is so simple I'm beginning to think your stupidity is terminal.

5. In fact, the free market is already at work, restructuring the conditions of work for HGV drivers. Several companies now offer generous bonuses for new drivers to sign up. Wages are increasing for key workers. Hahahaha! You sad old Tories now can't work out whether you're in favour of the free-market or not. Witness the fact that in your reply you have totally ignored the quote from a "senior source " in government that "a failure of the free market, not the state" was behind the fuel crisis and empty shelves." Perhaps you should try reading a bit more before you spout such tripe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

I'm just amazed there are any fools left who still believe the bull s h i t this government comes out with to excuse its latest fiasco.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

19 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'm just amazed there are any fools left who still believe the bull s h i t this government comes out with to excuse its latest fiasco.

RTB, Swindon, Jools or whatever he is now. And there are others who don't believe it but won't admit it.

We have seen the World elect leaders who are just full of siht and lies because they cannot admit that there is beggar all they can do with the basics of life as China totally dominates. So countries have elected buffons who spout what they are going to do but totally fail in their achievements.

How stupid are we that the one of the most important things in our lives, how we are governed, has become a joke.

[KernowCanary 214]

This **** show has been on the cards for years…. Labour refusing to enter the single currency, “The European Question” going on for years ever since we joined the EU…… I’m old enough to remember that 1997 junk mail VHS tape “The most important video you’ll ever watch”, by The Referendum Party.

Its just that back then we thought nothing of it and now it’s happened, it’s the biggest ****-up in worldwide political history.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

11 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'm beginning to think you are a parody account, albeit a very poor attempt at one. British companies have been exploiting cheap foreign labour as a consequence of our membership of the EU, which as you know but failed to mention, allows for freedom of movement across member states. 

It is not the responsibility of the government to recruit - or ban - workers. And while we were in the EU companies were able to recruit drivers from member states with much worse driving standards and accident rates that this country. They were forced to work long hours for low pay in often unsanitary conditions because the companies knew they did not have to provide decent working conditions or decent salaries. Since Brexit that pool of labour has dried up and now British companies will have to pay a decent salary and working conditions, plus training for British truck drivers on British roads.

In fact, the free market is already at work, restructuring the conditions of work for HGV drivers. Several companies now offer generous bonuses for new drivers to sign up. Wages are increasing for key workers. Perhaps if your turkey farmer pulls his finger out and stops expecting the government to do everything for him. he might find time to advertise for new staff at realistic wages and solve his own problems.

The free market is already at work? you are dreaming. Scotland voted to stay in the EU and the Green MSP's shouting about two new ferry ports directly to Europe, as a manifesto pledge at the last election, just as it happens in Ireland as of normal now, were asked by the SNP, ( Westminster's Tory gatekeepers up north) to drop the idea, accept tedious and slow transport through English ports.

To curtail food supplies by forcing farmers to leave it rotting in the field, or by slaughtering 100k plus grown pork because you did not think about our own workforce being denuded, due to much cheaper and better trained butchers and plumbers from abroad, which you sent home with the most sycophantic and racist slogans ever.

Our food chain is disrupted and we can't supply our demand, prices and inflation are going up gas prices have risen twice yesterday on the spot market and the Tory's are surrounded by a mesh of soft codswallop of their own making. He wants to 'insulate' young educated and determined non violent  protesters in prison, calling them all names under the sun, bigging up his fascist IDF layabout Patel, when he should have ideas on how to retrain, apprentice and or encourage them to take up well paid jobs in agriculture.

Let us see what we export and manufacture here in England. in a years time, outside the corrupt dealings that are being undertaken in the City of London, without taking the monies from Scottish and or Welsh assets into account. The time to big it up living from the exploits and assets of the arch English colonies Wales NI and Scotland is now limited, because the Conservatives are trying to deny them their own economic growth and rightful Independence, they did not agree with Brexit and were never asked. The time to exploit them is limited, as Independence and or unity with Ireland are inevitable, with or without Westminster's approval.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

13 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's not up to the government to provide workers for the turkey industry. It is up to business to plan, they've had six years, and raise wages and provide proper working conditions that are attractive for working people. One of the great benefits of brexit is going to be decent wages in key sectors as for far too long business leaders have become drunk on cheap, exploitable foreign labour. Anyone who thinks our working people should be paid a real living wage should be supporting brexit.

Absolutely ridiculous (as usual) - they didn't even have six weeks to plan, as no one could have foreseen that Johnson would go out and at the very last moment sign such an atrocious deal and one even worse that May's.

I've no idea how many business tried to plan for Brexit after the referendum but I'm guessing not many since it is pretty much impossible to plan for a moving and secret target. But even those that put plans in place when TM & the EU finally agreed a deal would have been totally scuppered by Johnson's last gasp disastrous deal.

Add to that the Government itself had totally failed to plan for the introduction of the deal it agreed and has still failed to implement huge parts of it, and it is abundantly clear that the Government is solely responsible for the total shambles happening all around us.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

6 hours ago, BigFish said:

The number of workers in poverty has increased in recent years. Just under half of workers in poverty are full-time employees, just over 30 per cent are part-time employees and around 20 per cent are self-employed.

UK pig farmers begin culling healthy animals amid major labour shortage

So it not just Turkeys, but Pigs, oh and fuel tanker drivers, hospitality, health and care. The government were boosting about 1 million unfilled vacancies so it couldn't really be a surprise. Just truely extraordinary levels of ignorance and incompetance. Thatcher took a decade of misery to build this economy and pissed up the wall all the UK's North Sea oil revenues doing it. Do the homework @Rock The Boat. Now Johnson is destroying it with no plan of what he will put in place.

Again, it is not the job of the government to recruit abattoir workers. It's the job of the slaughter industry to do that and they, like the hauliers and farmers, have had six years to prepare for this. It's no use them trying to shift the blame. They didn't recruit because they thought they could twist the government's arm to provide state intervention. Thank goodness the government has resisted this and put the onus on employers to raise wages before profits. You posted a graph showing rising levels of in-work poverty. If we let the Farmers Union, the Road Haulage Association and other lobby groups get away with shirking their responsibilities then the in-work poverty rates will increase. You should be pleased to see wages rising for working class people.

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

34 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Absolutely ridiculous (as usual) - they didn't even have six weeks to plan, as no one could have foreseen that Johnson would go out and at the very last moment sign such an atrocious deal and one even worse that May's.

I've no idea how many business tried to plan for Brexit after the referendum but I'm guessing not many since it is pretty much impossible to plan for a moving and secret target. But even those that put plans in place when TM & the EU finally agreed a deal would have been totally scuppered by Johnson's last gasp disastrous deal.

Add to that the Government itself had totally failed to plan for the introduction of the deal it agreed and has still failed to implement huge parts of it, and it is abundantly clear that the Government is solely responsible for the total shambles happening all around us.

I disagree completely. It's not difficult to work out what ending the freedom of movement means. Some companies prepared for it. Some haven't. We can see which ones didn't prepare.

There are many more structural changes to come, this is just the beginning

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

6 hours ago, horsefly said:

Thick as shi*te as ever:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices

14/09/2021 · The Consumer Prices Index including owner occupiers' housing costs (CPIH) rose by 3.0% in the 12 months to August 2021, up from 2.1% in the 12 months to July. The increase of 0.9 percentage points is the largest increase ever recorded in the CPIH National Statistic 12-month inflation rate series, which began in January 2006; however, this is ...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/05/bank-of-england-uk-inflation-interest-rates-prices

Bank of England warns inflation will hit 4% this year but holds interest rates

Just how thick and ill-informed do you have to be to make the following claim, "The main price increases in the past year have been in transport costs and hospitality, which falls mainly on the working population and not those in poverty." You are clearly totally ignorant of the fact that nearly half of those claiming UC are actually in work, how extraordinarily dumb to think that those in work can't also be in poverty. 

Just how thick and ill-informed do you have to be not to have heard of the economic phenomenon of "wage-price spiral". 

Just how thick and ill-informed do you need to be not to realise that the vast majority of workers on minimum pay will get nothing like a 4% increase in their wages.

I could go on but we're all very familiar with your pig-ignorance.

As I posted to BigFish, what you are demonstrating is the effect of a cheap foreign pool of labour depressing wage rates in the UK to such a level that even those in work have to claim Universal Credit. Fortunately, assuming the government holds its nerve, that source of cheap labour is no longer available and we will begin to see wage rates rising. I will be very happy when your daily latte doubles in price. News Update: HGV wage rates are rising as we speak. Isn't income distribution a wonderful thing?

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

I disagree completely. It's not difficult to work out what ending the freedom of movement means. Some companies prepared for it. Some haven't. We can see which ones didn't prepare.

There are many more structural changes to come, this is just the beginning

It is impossible to work out what it means when you don't know what will replace it - zero immigration was never even suggested as the answer. Throughout at least 5 years of the non-existant 6 years you keep referring to we were told that FoM would be replaced by an immigration system that reflected the country's needs - that, like pretty much everything else, this government has said about Brexit was a lie as the new system they brought in does nothing of the sort.

This isn't just about lorry drivers - we have a massive shortage of nurses and in 2015, and I think pretty much every year since the government has promised to recruit an extra 50,000 nurses. We now have less nurses than we did in 2015!!!

Changes are definitely coming but many not for the better and none of them have been planned - that is just a ludicrous narrative dreamt up in the last fortnight by the Tories as a pathetic fig leaf for the shambles they've created.

Of course in the long run if certain occupations which are currently underpaid get a boost in wages that will be a good thing but no sane, or even semi-competent government would go about it the way this one has and in any case with inflation running ahead (and looking to rise a lot faster still) of pay rises then the pay rises are actually pay cuts for the vast majority.

We are not heading for a high skills, high wage economy as the economically illerate buffoons are trying to claim, we are heading for high inflation and a stagnant economy.

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

3 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

The free market is already at work? you are dreaming. Scotland voted to stay in the EU and the Green MSP's shouting about two new ferry ports directly to Europe, as a manifesto pledge at the last election, just as it happens in Ireland as of normal now, were asked by the SNP, ( Westminster's Tory gatekeepers up north) to drop the idea, accept tedious and slow transport through English ports.

To curtail food supplies by forcing farmers to leave it rotting in the field, or by slaughtering 100k plus grown pork because you did not think about our own workforce being denuded, due to much cheaper and better trained butchers and plumbers from abroad, which you sent home with the most sycophantic and racist slogans ever.

Our food chain is disrupted and we can't supply our demand, prices and inflation are going up gas prices have risen twice yesterday on the spot market and the Tory's are surrounded by a mesh of soft codswallop of their own making. He wants to 'insulate' young educated and determined non violent  protesters in prison, calling them all names under the sun, bigging up his fascist IDF layabout Patel, when he should have ideas on how to retrain, apprentice and or encourage them to take up well paid jobs in agriculture.

Let us see what we export and manufacture here in England. in a years time, outside the corrupt dealings that are being undertaken in the City of London, without taking the monies from Scottish and or Welsh assets into account. The time to big it up living from the exploits and assets of the arch English colonies Wales NI and Scotland is now limited, because the Conservatives are trying to deny them their own economic growth and rightful Independence, they did not agree with Brexit and were never asked. The time to exploit them is limited, as Independence and or unity with Ireland are inevitable, with or without Westminster's approval.

Firstly, I'm struggling to understand how England is exploiting Wales NI and Scotland as we subsidise all three regions with higher government spending, not to mention the number of businesses that are directed to locate in the regions through generous business grants. If anyone is being exploited it is the English taxpayer on whom the burden falls.

To claim that the SNP are somehow the puppets of the Conservative party, is a marvellously, entertaining conspiracy theory but I could never see it being made into a movie as the required suspension of disbelief would be a step too far for most.

Nobody sent Romanian butchers back to Bucharest, they left of their own accord. In fact, had they registered before Brexit they would have been fully entitled to stay. Some did, some didn't. Their choice. However, as I have repeated elsewhere it is up the business to staff their companies. It is their responsibility to train these butchers too. Not the government.

Gas prices rose 40% today. Nothing to do with Brexit. The rise is on the global spot markets. Gas prices are rising because no one is investing in fossil fuel extraction anymore. Western countries, blinded by fools such as Extinction Rebellion, think we can power Europe by wind power. I advise everyone to go out and stock up on woolly jumpers as the price of sheep wool is bound to follow that of gas. Gas prices dropped a little from their peak after Putin said he will increase Russian gas output. So it seems the west has swapped Middle Eastern oil sheiks for a Communist megalomaniac who uses deadly poisons to eliminate his enemies - and anyone else who happen to be nearby.

And as for those middle-class idiots preventing ambulances from reaching hospitals on the M25, perhaps they can feel proud that a stroke victim is now permanently paralysed because the car taking her to A&E could not get through their blockade let's name them for what they are: terrorists.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Rock The Boat

[sonyc 5,514]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Changes are definitely coming but many not for the better and none of them have been planned - that is just a ludicrous narrative dreamt up in the last fortnight by the Tories as a pathetic fig leaf for the shambles they've created.

Of course in the long run if certain occupations which are currently underpaid get a boost in wages that will be a good thing but no sane, or even semi-competent government would go about it the way this one has and in any case with inflation running ahead (and looking to rise a lot faster still) of pay rises then the pay rises are actually pay cuts for the vast majority.

We are not heading for a high skills, high wage economy as the economically illerate buffoons are trying to claim, we are heading for high inflation and a stagnant economy.

That is exactly right CM. It will be stagflation and the worst of all possible worlds - they won't be able to tackle inflation without taking on failing economic growth and of course vice versa. It will be a double bind. We are heading for the 1970's. 

Nick Robinson  on R4 said to Raab "are you not masquerading a full-on crisis and calling it a plan?" ...which I thought was well put (and Robinson is a conservative).

Johnson's speech has been called rambling and his vision attacked by small businesses and economists alike. We are heading towards a very high tax and low benefits economy.

Had he have stated the above was his plan in December 2019 I am very sure he would not have been elected! Of course now he wants everyone to believe his failing Brexit is all part of some grand long term plan.

Edited October 6, 2021 by sonyc
Grammar

[horsefly 4,298]

57 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

As I posted to BigFish, what you are demonstrating is the effect of a cheap foreign pool of labour depressing wage rates in the UK to such a level that even those in work have to claim Universal Credit. Fortunately, assuming the government holds its nerve, that source of cheap labour is no longer available and we will begin to see wage rates rising. I will be very happy when your daily latte doubles in price. News Update: HGV wage rates are rising as we speak. Isn't income distribution a wonderful thing?

Oh dear! you have the economic understanding of a gnat. Yet again you ignore the fact that the government has always had the legislative power to prevent the exploitation of cheap labour, irrespective of where that labour comes from. It is painfully evident that you refuse to comment on why the government hasn't used that power in the last 11 years. Poverty pay is a disgrace irrespective of the nature of the work, so the fact that only particular low paid workers will see their wages increase is of absolutely no comfort whatsoever to those low paid workers who will not see their wages increase. Wage rises for HGV drivers is great news for them, but we all know from past experience that the costs of paying for those wage increases will be passed on to consumers (and thus a wage-price spiral begins). That will be financially devastating to those low paid workers who do not get a wage rise, and will result in a massive increase in the numbers of people falling into abject poverty. Banning employment of foreign workers and telling employers to just get on with it doesn't even remotely come close to constituting a sane economic policy. It is a complete abnegation of the responsibility of government to develop a coherent economic policy to secure the financial welfare of the most impoverished citizens of the country. Johnson's speech told you everything you needed to know about this government's disgraceful abandonment of  economic management and strategy, insofar as he said not a word about how banning foreign labour would magically transfer the country into a nirvana of high wages for all. It is laughable that you are so truly gullible that you would swallow Johnson's self-evident bull-shi*t that foreign labour has been the sole cause holding back high wages for all. What a joke!