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The Positive Brexit Thread

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3 hours ago, ricardo said:

Looks like its all your fault😉

 

"Who do you think is to blame for petrol stations running out of fuel?"

The public 22%
The government 23%
The media 47%

YouGov today

Who did they ask? Not the public, government or media? Schoolchildren then. Perhaps Daniel Craig?

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23 minutes ago, Van wink said:

No doubt that Brexit is partly responsible for the mess we are in at the forecourts, Brexit and strategic failure of Government and business. We have depended on low cost labour for years which is why our investment and productivity levels are so low. Its needed to change and will have to now, expecting change to take place with a coherent strategy was of course expecting too much.

There is the problem. The government completely changed how the country works with no plan. It was quite clear early on that there was no long term strategy and it was all based on slogans, that get votes,but don't actually do anything. "Let's train our own" is all well and good and,most of us agree with this, but it had to be in place well BEFORE we chased off a large part of the workforce. Better pay, far better conditions would have also helped, but again, this should have been thought about a long time ago.

 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

There is the problem. The government completely changed how the country works with no plan. It was quite clear early on that there was no long term strategy and it was all based on slogans, that get votes,but don't actually do anything. "Let's train our own" is all well and good and,most of us agree with this, but it had to be in place well BEFORE we chased off a large part of the workforce. Better pay, far better conditions would have also helped, but again, this should have been thought about a long time ago.

 

I doubt many would argue to suggest there was sufficient planning in place, Cameron and Osbourne were taken by surprise.

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2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I doubt many would argue to suggest there was sufficient planning in place, Cameron and Osbourne were taken by surprise.

Those two **** are responsible for doing more damage to this country than anyone else, including Bozo.

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5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I doubt many would argue to suggest there was sufficient planning in place, Cameron and Osbourne were taken by surprise.

According to Cummings today his team were telling Boris to plan for this a year ago, but Carrie said no. 

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15 hours ago, BigFish said:

This had nothing to do with free movement, as has been frequently pointed out to you, or at least the impact was very small. On the other hand the Labour crisis we are currently experiencing has everything to do with free movement. Meanwhile you continue to evidence that you are markedly xenophobic and it is this, rather than facts and evidence, that drives your choices and opinions.

Freedom of movement has a lot to do with the level of wages, unless you wish to ignore the very basic laws of demand and supply. Right now, the whole story of driver shortage is wrapped up in the fact that many drivers have returned to Europe and Covid has shut down the training and testing of potential new entrants to the industry. And because there is a driver shortage, so many drivers are giving up permanent employment to sign up as agency drivers on far higher salaries. 

There is a labour shortage in some sectors due to low-income EU workers returning home. I see that not as a crisis but an opportunity for our own people to train up and take on the jobs at much higher pay rates. Lobby groups such as the National Farmers Union may bleat in public that they can't get staff, but if you pay enough they will come. Or do you think might be more concerned about the profits of their members?

And finally, as Herman has his nazis in every other post, you seem to be a tad profligate with the old xenophobic slur. It's no longer 2016, old chum.

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15 hours ago, BigFish said:

One thing the pandemic has demonstrated is the importance of the so called "low skilled" workforce. This continues to be illustrated by the Labour crisis that is enitirely caused by Brexit. We have supposedly one million vacancies. These cause a drag on economic growth, government revenues and the provision of goods and services.

Not quite my viewpoint. One thing the pandemic has demonstrated is the reliance on the so called "low skilled" workforce, many of whom are not indigenous.

It's like being reliant on the French to supply our electricity or the Chinese to supply our internet backbone. There is simply no need for us as a country to be reliant on foreign powers for key segments of our economic system. As you correctly identify, some of our front-line workers during the pandemic are also low-income workers, but because they are key workers we cannot afford for reasons of economic security, allow these sectors to be reliant on foreign skills. We have to have the skills in-country. It isn't xenophobic to say so, it is smart thinking.

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7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Freedom of movement has a lot to do with the level of wages, unless you wish to ignore the very basic laws of demand and supply. Right now, the whole story of driver shortage is wrapped up in the fact that many drivers have returned to Europe and Covid has shut down the training and testing of potential new entrants to the industry. And because there is a driver shortage, so many drivers are giving up permanent employment to sign up as agency drivers on far higher salaries. 

There is a labour shortage in some sectors due to low-income EU workers returning home. I see that not as a crisis but an opportunity for our own people to train up and take on the jobs at much higher pay rates. Lobby groups such as the National Farmers Union may bleat in public that they can't get staff, but if you pay enough they will come. Or do you think might be more concerned about the profits of their members?

And finally, as Herman has his nazis in every other post, you seem to be a tad profligate with the old xenophobic slur. It's no longer 2016, old chum.

You completely ignore anything that has been written before.

You can earn good money working on the farms but you have to put a good shift in. It doesn't need a long time of training so British people could quite easily do it but it is bloody hard and it is seasonal. You will need to be able to move to remoter parts of the country and be prepared to live in conditions completely different to how you'd normally live, for a few months at a time.

If you knew anything about farming you would know there isn't massive profits involved (unless you buy up millions of acres like Dyson) and there are massive variations year on year. One year boom, next year disaster, next year average. They also have to put up with the big boys like Tesco etc who like to keep prices low to keep their customers happy. Now if all their customers were willing to pay a genuine price for their produce then the farmers could pay top dollar wages, but as it is they have to stay viable.

As I said earlier, "we can train our own" is just a simplistic and lazy soundbite and does nothing to fix the current problems caused by changing our working and logistic system overnight with no forethought. Start coming up with some better ideas.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

 

So you are still cravenly hanging on the word of the lying idiot who told us there was not a chance in hell that the UK would suffer from food shortages (see the vid I posted above).

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7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Freedom of movement has a lot to do with the level of wages, unless you wish to ignore the very basic laws of demand and supply. Right now, the whole story of driver shortage is wrapped up in the fact that many drivers have returned to Europe and Covid has shut down the training and testing of potential new entrants to the industry. And because there is a driver shortage, so many drivers are giving up permanent employment to sign up as agency drivers on far higher salaries. 

There is a labour shortage in some sectors due to low-income EU workers returning home. I see that not as a crisis but an opportunity for our own people to train up and take on the jobs at much higher pay rates. Lobby groups such as the National Farmers Union may bleat in public that they can't get staff, but if you pay enough they will come. Or do you think might be more concerned about the profits of their members?

And finally, as Herman has his nazis in every other post, you seem to be a tad profligate with the old xenophobic slur. It's no longer 2016, old chum.

Many people think that Economics is simple and the laws of supply and demand are "basic". This is not the case. This allows them to expouse opinion as fact when actually it is fallacy. The consensus amongst economists, including the Bank of England, is that FoM did not significantly impact wages. At most the impact is a matter of a few pennies on the hourly rate restricted to certain sectors and locations.

The UK now has a Labour crisis that directly drags on the economy. Each vacancy means work that isn't being done, production that isn't being delivered, profits not made and taxes not paid. With unemployment at low levels the UK does not have the Labour force to fill these gaps, in the locations required and with the appropriate skills. The risk is this leads to stagflation with rising prices but without economic growth.

I do not use xenophobic as a slur, more an observation. When the key objection to a sector of the Labour force is that they are not "like" a poster such as Fen Canary that is cleraly xenophobic.

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Not quite my viewpoint. One thing the pandemic has demonstrated is the reliance on the so called "low skilled" workforce, many of whom are not indigenous.

It's like being reliant on the French to supply our electricity or the Chinese to supply our internet backbone. There is simply no need for us as a country to be reliant on foreign powers for key segments of our economic system. As you correctly identify, some of our front-line workers during the pandemic are also low-income workers, but because they are key workers we cannot afford for reasons of economic security, allow these sectors to be reliant on foreign skills. We have to have the skills in-country. It isn't xenophobic to say so, it is smart thinking.

This is key. The UK clearly doesn't have the skills or the numbers in the sectors and locations required. That is why we now have a Labour crisis, if not caused definitly exacerbated by Brexit. We have that crisis now, the government has no plan to address this and even if they did the solution is long term. By way of illustration it takes seven years to train a doctor, we don't have enough right now of the background the xenphobes would accept and we are not training in sufficent numbers.

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Can we 'ground' this conversation about labour shortages with some actual facts and reality.

Yes the Brexiteers won the referendum with some myths and wishful thinking but now they've got to try and square a circle. Tricky and clearly beyond them given their boxed in ideology. They own it hook line and sinker.

The bald facts are we don't have enough UK people however much we pay them to do all the jobs we need to do. The shortages in Care homes, NHS, farms and yes haulage and hospitality existed well before Brexit even with EU labour.  Ergo the immigrants apart from in a few very small incidences were not holding down wages but simply filling existing holes in the labour market. It's been well researched several times and always the result comes to that same conclusion. This is of course why the Brexiteers can't fix it! Clueless.

Amazon can pay more and steal care workers, supermarkets can steal care workers, haulage companies can fight amongst themselves (and become uneconomic to their customers) but you can't change the fundamental shortages. We need immigration.

As an aside some may recall Merkel in Germany letting in 1M Syrians was it. Truth was she knew the German economy needed these hardworking, thankful and now tax paying people. Germany strangely isn't in the self induced s h i t that we now are! Oh for grown up politicians!

Edited by Yellow Fever
Just saw BF reply much of which says similar things!
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12 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Many people think that Economics is simple and the laws of supply and demand are "basic". This is not the case. This allows them to expouse opinion as fact when actually it is fallacy.

Spot on BF! There is an awful lot of myth and nonsense perpetuated under the "supply and demand" nostrum, none more so than the blind faith of those who seem to believe it has the natural power to resolve all economic problems. Remember pre-2008, the huge demand for sub-prime mortgages and the banks all too willing to supply them? I wonder how that turned out! Governments are required to employ a wide range of mechanisms to secure a healthy, flourishing, and stable economy; society and human interests are simply too diverse and complex for them to be satisfied by a procrustean reliance on one basic principle. Surely the chief lesson to learn from the 2008 financial collapse is that a radically deregulated economy resting too heavily on a supply/demand ethos leads to nothing but anarchy and chaos.

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14 hours ago, Van wink said:

I doubt many would argue to suggest there was sufficient planning in place, Cameron and Osbourne were taken by surprise.

Which was no surprise

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5 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

 

Swindon advertises another lie by an ego espousing idiot who scared the hell out of Cameron by simply lying and got us in this mess.

Swindon sees him as a hero.

I think he is Public Enemy Number 1.

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Just saw this - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58734265

GB number plate sticker no longer valid abroad

We have to all to get a UK one. I'm hoping it will come free with a Little Englander one plus a large "I didn't vote for this crap" one too with a large picture of Pinocchio Johnson to used as a dart board. As somebody who has voted Tory in the past NEVER EVER AGAIN anywhere. Toxic.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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On 24/09/2021 at 14:28, ricardo said:

Wait until Wednesday, everyone will have full tanks and the forecourts will be empty.

I took your advice, and a bit like Johnson there was a bit of truth. I went to 12 petrol stations today and I have to agree ‘ the forecourts were definitely empty ‘. There was a problem however, they were empty because not one of the 12 had any f****** petrol. 

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Wait until Wednesday, everyone will have full tanks and the forecourts will be empty

The chaos that was the road leading to Tesco garage this evening makes your suggestion more hope than fact.

You have to turn right into the forecourt and the road was blocked. So those who didn't want fuel decided to start overtaking, oblivious to those leaving the forecourt. I would imagine one or two have exchanged insurance companies by now.

Facetwat has become the conduit in Cornwall as people burn a quarter of a tank so they can fill up.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

On the good side, British  HGV Drivers are now getting paid more, as they are not undercut by people from the EU.

Not true. I know for a fact that the trucking companies in Cornwall had a cartel that agreed that no company would pay more than the other. Thus driving wages down.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

On the good side, British  HGV Drivers are now getting paid more, as they are not undercut by people from the EU.

Funny how you right wingers couldn't give a monkeys about peoples wages at one time. Now you know the fuss has died down about NHS workers pay, you revert to saying how drivers should be paid more. Why didn't you do it before?

All of a sudden it has dawned on you that unskilled and semi skilled workers are equally as important to the running of the country as bullcrapping suits in the Sitay.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

On the good side, British  HGV Drivers are now getting paid more, as they are not undercut by people from the EU.

So the only way in which the government could think to drive up wages for lorry drivers was to create a national crisis of massive food and fuel shortages. Pure genius!

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23 hours ago, BigFish said:

Many people think that Economics is simple and the laws of supply and demand are "basic". This is not the case. This allows them to expouse opinion as fact when actually it is fallacy. The consensus amongst economists, including the Bank of England, is that FoM did not significantly impact wages. At most the impact is a matter of a few pennies on the hourly rate restricted to certain sectors and locations.

This is a bit of a bugbear of mine- you're right that average wages may not have gone down but it isn't a great argument to people who have been effected by these sorts of things- there are some good examples from on the ground here. 

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We keep seeing suggestions that petrol and diesel shortages - at garages - were caused by a lack of HGV drivers due to Brexit.
But Germany, France and Spain are also suffering from a shortfall, of 400,000 HGV drivers

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2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:
We keep seeing suggestions that petrol and diesel shortages - at garages - were caused by a lack of HGV drivers due to Brexit.
But Germany, France and Spain are also suffering from a shortfall, of 400,000 HGV drivers

OK, now please show us the photographs of empty supermarket shelves and closed petrol stations (and mile-long queues) in those countries. I wonder why they don't have those issues despite a driver shortage!

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