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The Positive Brexit Thread

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9 hours ago, KernowCanary said:

If Scotland rejoin the EU and thus goes independent in the first instance, I am definitely moving up there. I have no contacts in Ireland, the only British Isles sovereign state in the EU, but do have friends in Scotland who I will be able to see more often.

I’ll maybe move to Perth, as rent is affordable there and can easily find a job in Social Care, which is my field and there’s always demand for it.

I’ll always keep in touch with my friends in Truro and Falmouth, visiting them once a year before Christmas.

This Union-state is becoming a right mess and that mess just keeps getting worse and worse by the day. Of course, living in Brex-sh*t Britain isn’t as bad as most places in the world, but definitely amongst the worst in Europe (yes, we are still in Europe, just not the EU which is different from Europe).

It was the fault of the government as well as those who voted Leave if it was based on xenophobia. Not only did they offer up the referendum, they later talked up “leave” then told lies through their back teeth about the consequence of doing so, thus steering those who would have voted “Remain” from that to “Leave”.

That would be the same tolerant Scotland that actually has higher rate of racist murders per capita than the rest of the xenophobic UK (1.8 murders per million with a known or suspected racist motive, compared to 1.3 for the UK as a whole)? 

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2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

But they had no provisions to prevent those workers being exploited, being paid below the going rate for their industry or undercutting the local workforce, which is what the argument was about from the very beginning. There was also no rules which allowed the government to put a cap on numbers if too many arrived and put pressure on housing a public services.

Saying the government could deport those who broke the law or didn’t work is simply (most likely a deliberate) a diversion tactic to avoid debating the points to which you had no answers.

I can’t see why people get so upset over the end of free movement for EU citizens. What is it about the old two tier system that was so good? Why do you believe they deserve special treatment in regards to immigration compared to other parts of the world? Why should an unskilled Estonian have more right to remain than a skilled Indian for example? To me treating all nations citizens the same would be the fairest and most liberal system 

Because it was our freedom of movement as well you fool. How hard is it to understand? It wasn't a one way street where all Europeans could come here  but we couldn't go there. It was a great right to have and something that would have been great for your children and grandchildren.

How many Britons have exploited it to retire to Spain, or get a place in France or Italy? This has been completely cut off from the average British citizen and is now only available to those that have large amounts of money. How the vote leave government has persuaded you that getting rid of FOM was a good idea is beyond me but you really have cheered to cripple the futures of your own family and friends. Wake up.

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Because it was our freedom of movement as well you fool. How hard is it to understand? It wasn't a one way street where all Europeans could come here  but we couldn't go there. It was a great right to have and something that would have been great for your children and grandchildren.

How many Britons have exploited it to retire to Spain, or get a place in France or Italy? This has been completely cut off from the average British citizen and is now only available to those that have large amounts of money. How the vote leave government has persuaded you that getting rid of FOM was a good idea is beyond me but you really have cheered to cripple the futures of your own family and friends. Wake up.

Fantastic. So in your eyes the poor have to put up with stagnant wages, increased competition for jobs, housing and struggling public services just so a few middle class pensioners can see out their days on the Costa Del Sol?

It also hasn’t cut off anything for the young, they’ll still be able to work in Europe if they wish, they’ll simply have to apply for work visas the same as they currently do in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America etc. The way you describe it anyone would think Brits are being locked into the country like the North Koreans 

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Are you trying to persuade me or yourself that what you have done is good for UK citizens? 

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22 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Fantastic. So in your eyes the poor have to put up with stagnant wages, increased competition for jobs, housing and struggling public services just so a few middle class pensioners can see out their days on the Costa Del Sol?

It also hasn’t cut off anything for the young, they’ll still be able to work in Europe if they wish, they’ll simply have to apply for work visas the same as they currently do in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America etc. The way you describe it anyone would think Brits are being locked into the country like the North Koreans 

This had nothing to do with free movement, as has been frequently pointed out to you, or at least the impact was very small. On the other hand the Labour crisis we are currently experiencing has everything to do with free movement. Meanwhile you continue to evidence that you are markedly xenophobic and it is this, rather than facts and evidence, that drives your choices and opinions.

Edited by BigFish
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12 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Most “liberal” minded voters wanted to keep the old two tier immigration system whereby an unskilled worker from Europe had more right to remain than a skilled one from the subcontinent. Maybe it’s because Europeans are predominantly white and they felt uncomfortable importing those with darker skin even if they were more highly skilled 

Why are you denigrating unskilled work? On one hand you talk of raising wages and then sneer at the unskilled.

And nothing could be more polar opposite than your view about immigration. Anyone should be welcome in this country to do a job of work that they are best suited for and is necessary in this country. Whether you are my Cancer Consultant from Sri Lanka or a chap from Lithuania who works at night cleaning sewers.

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30 minutes ago, BigFish said:

This had nothing to do with free movement, as has been frequently pointed out to you, or at least the impact was very small. On the other hand the Labour crisis we are currently experiencing has everything to do with free movement. Meanwhile you continue to evidence that you are markedly xenophobic and it is this, rather than facts and evidence, that drives your choices and opinions.

Name one thing that I have said that would be xenophobic towards another race or nationality? You can’t because I haven’t. Wanting immigration controlled isn’t racist, and trying to portray anybody concerned about the numbers and skills of that many new arrivals, and the pressure it places on wages and public services is simply a lazy way of trying to shut down any discussion on the matter

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27 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why are you denigrating unskilled work? On one hand you talk of raising wages and then sneer at the unskilled.

And nothing could be more polar opposite than your view about immigration. Anyone should be welcome in this country to do a job of work that they are best suited for and is necessary in this country. Whether you are my Cancer Consultant from Sri Lanka or a chap from Lithuania who works at night cleaning sewers.

One thing the pandemic has demonstrated is the importance of the so called "low skilled" workforce. This continues to be illustrated by the Labour crisis that is enitirely caused by Brexit. We have supposedly one million vacancies. These cause a drag on economic growth, government revenues and the provision of goods and services.

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I was just wondering given the dysfuntional state of Brexit Bonkers Britain whether contingency plans had been made to to move Cop26 to somewhere more sensible? Someplace where all the hordes of attendees and their entourages can get fuel etc.

I'm sure Paris, New York, Beijing etc. could step up in a hurry to fill the tank gap. Comedy act Johnson can stay at home and watch the Muppets.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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31 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why are you denigrating unskilled work? On one hand you talk of raising wages and then sneer at the unskilled.

And nothing could be more polar opposite than your view about immigration. Anyone should be welcome in this country to do a job of work that they are best suited for and is necessary in this country. Whether you are my Cancer Consultant from Sri Lanka or a chap from Lithuania who works at night cleaning sewers.

I’m not knocking unskilled work, my point is that it’s often low paid to begin with, and allowing companies to import even more low skilled workers means those industries have no reason to increase wages for those already at the bottom. 

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47 minutes ago, Herman said:

Are you trying to persuade me or yourself that what you have done is good for UK citizens? 

I don’t need to persuade myself, I believe it was the right decision.

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5 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Name one thing that I have said that would be xenophobic towards another race or nationality? You can’t because I haven’t. Wanting immigration controlled isn’t racist, and trying to portray anybody concerned about the numbers and skills of that many new arrivals, and the pressure it places on wages and public services is simply a lazy way of trying to shut down any discussion on the matter

It is clearly xenophobia that drives your world view. You want to "control" immigration without any evidence to support your argument, you confuse freedom of movement of labour with immigration, you talk about the "number and skills" of what you term "new arrivals" without evidence and you continue to peddle the myth that this put pressure on wages and public services when all academic evidence suggests the opposite. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks it is likely it is a duck. Same goes for racists.

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5 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

But they had no provisions to prevent those workers being exploited, being paid below the going rate for their industry or undercutting the local workforce, which is what the argument was about from the very beginning.

And here we go again, completely ignoring the obvious and simple fact that the government had all the legislative powers it needed to prevent workers being exploited but chose not to do so. Nothing in our membership of the EU stopped the government raising the minimum wage and enforcing its application.

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6 minutes ago, BigFish said:

It is clearly xenophobia that drives your world view. You want to "control" immigration without any evidence to support your argument, you confuse freedom of movement of labour with immigration, you talk about the "number and skills" of what you term "new arrivals" without evidence and you continue to peddle the myth that this put pressure on wages and public services when all academic evidence suggests the opposite. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks it is likely it is a duck. Same goes for racists.

I think what Fen wants is all the benefits of immigration providing none of the incomers (even from Yorkshire or Belfast) compete with him.

It just doesn't work that way.

In the modern world even skilled University Professors compete globally. There is an economic price for the job skilled or unskilled. 

I suppose he likes the idea of isolated N. Korea? No job competition there from foreigners.

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1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m not knocking unskilled work, my point is that it’s often low paid to begin with, and allowing companies to import even more low skilled workers means those industries have no reason to increase wages for those already at the bottom. 

But they have to pay imported workers the minimum wage. And you say even more unskilled. That is the point. There are so many unskilled jobs available.

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A bad idea, poorly planned and terribly executed. 

Brexit, the Gallipoli of political movements. 

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

A bad idea, poorly planned and terribly executed. 

Brexit, the Gallipoli of political movements. 

Johnson emulating his hero Winston Churchill.

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

A bad idea, poorly planned and terribly executed. 

Brexit, the Gallipoli of political movements. 

Be honest, its given you a good reason to bump up your post count every morning.😉

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Be honest, its given you a good reason to bump up your post count every morning.😉

Plenty of time to post while waiting in the queues that Gove and Farage said just couldn't happen😃

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6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Plenty of time to post while waiting in the queues that Gove and Farage said just couldn't happen😃

Looks like its all your fault😉

 

"Who do you think is to blame for petrol stations running out of fuel?"

The public 22%
The government 23%
The media 47%

YouGov today

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12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Be honest, its given you a good reason to bump up your post count every morning.😉

Yes, my post count is the most important thing.

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Yes, my post count is the most important thing.

Perhaps Ricardo has yet another opinion poll he can post about that.

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

 

IMG_20210928_181337.jpg

Haha! just a shame we can't get any deliveries of gravel. At least when the electric lights go out the candles will attract moths. 

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16 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

But they had no provisions to prevent those workers being exploited, being paid below the going rate for their industry or undercutting the local workforce, which is what the argument was about from the very beginning. There was also no rules which allowed the government to put a cap on numbers if too many arrived and put pressure on housing a public services.

Saying the government could deport those who broke the law or didn’t work is simply (most likely a deliberate) a diversion tactic to avoid debating the points to which you had no answers.

I can’t see why people get so upset over the end of free movement for EU citizens. What is it about the old two tier system that was so good? Why do you believe they deserve special treatment in regards to immigration compared to other parts of the world? Why should an unskilled Estonian have more right to remain than a skilled Indian for example? To me treating all nations citizens the same would be the fairest and most liberal system 

I was upset about the loss of freedom of movement as I wanted to experience living in a  foreign country. Which I am, as I moved 2 days before the original Brexit date. Others after me are not so lucky

You mention a two tier system. What are your views on the CTA with The Republic of Ireland? There are other neighbouring countries that have also had arrangements with each other 

EDIT - To address your second paragraph, I'm not sure where I've mentioned deporting people who don't work. What is certain is that someone using freedom of movement can be asked to provide evidence that they can support themselves in their host country if they are staying longer than 3 months. I know, because I had to 

Edited by How I Wrote Elastic Man
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No doubt that Brexit is partly responsible for the mess we are in at the forecourts, Brexit and strategic failure of Government and business. We have depended on low cost labour for years which is why our investment and productivity levels are so low. Its needed to change and will have to now, expecting change to take place with a coherent strategy was of course expecting too much.

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