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The Positive Brexit Thread

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5 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I shouldn’t have called you an idiot, clearly you’re a f***ing idiot.

Try and dress it up however you please if it makes you happy, but I’ve never said I’m against the minimum wage. However you interpreted it was incorrect as I’ve stated numerous times, I’ve told you I think it’s a good thing. If you choose to ignore that then that’s up to you

Oh dear! you really are far more of a simpleton than I originally thought. Dress it up however you wish but my explanation of your post is ENTIRELY accurate. If you are not man enough to admit that you expressed yourself in a way you didn't intend, then one can only assume you don't possess the intelligence to understand the meaning of the words you have written. Perhaps there is a primary school teacher on the site who can explain how the English language works to people with your level of intelligence, because it's certainly impossible for me to make it any simpler.

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53 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Some on the left were in favour of brexit. I  was an occasional reader of The Morning Star a few years back, they were all for it

There was quite a lot of unemployment in some places in Eastern Europe. We had vacancies and they had available labour...

In the 1975 referendum on whether to stay in the position of Trotskyist parties in the UK was to leave, on the basis that the EU was a capitalist project that exploited workers.

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1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

There was quite a lot of unemployment in some places in Eastern Europe. We had vacancies and they had available labour...

Yes that’s called supply and demand in an open marketplace economy, quite the opposite of plundering assets, the latter being what this current Tory government is all to familiar with. 

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5 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

To be fair the driver shortage isn’t just affecting the UK, most other EU countries are also short of drivers currently. However you’re correct that the restriction of cheap labour from abroad was one of my reason for voting to leave.

Im not saying I trust the Tories to deliver on it, though I must say they seem to be (reasonably) sticking to their guns so far, but at least if they renege on their promises I can vote for a different party who say they’ll put a stop to it. At least now I have that option, while we were a member any party was powerless to stop companies hiring cheap labour from the poorer EU nations 

Really? I don't see pictures of Germans queuing for petrol, empty French supermarket shelves, Belgian bars running out of beer, Spanish fruit rotting in the fields or Dutch restaurants closing due to lack of Chicken.

Apparently there are a million job vacancies and this is a "good thing", rather than a drag on the UK economy. Yet you continue to peddle the lie that cheap labour reduced UK wages without any actual evidence whatsoever. Lets face it, you just don't like foreigners.

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Fact is, the majority of people who voted Leave are never going to admit it was a mistake.

Even if there are wholesale shortages and price increases as well as lengthy waiting lists, they will argue we are making our own laws (like banning protesting) and are free to trade with who we want.

It really doesn't matter anymore about immigration. A golfing buddy of mine has a son who has two fishing boats in Aberdeen. He doesn't land in this country. And his crew are from Ghana. They are cheaper than any European and send all their money home just like others have in the past and do not set foot in this country because of the Immigration rules.

Is that progress, exploitation or a consequence of Brexit?

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At least something good came out of this shißeshow…. All the idiots who slow me down every night from drives home from work by driving 40 in a 60 and 30 in a 40 and cause jams on roundabouts, delaying my arrival time from home, were most probably all panic buying at station forecourts and having fights, allowing me to have the best drive home in a long time.

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17 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What? It isn't just the French then.

😀

Funnily enough no, as I heard a Polish lad saying roughly the same, only politely, on radio today.

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55 minutes ago, Herman said:

Schteve? Is that you?

 

"Coming over here and taking our jobs" .....changing to.... 'Not coming over here and not taking our jobs'😅

#brexitbritain

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If Scotland rejoin the EU and thus goes independent in the first instance, I am definitely moving up there. I have no contacts in Ireland, the only British Isles sovereign state in the EU, but do have friends in Scotland who I will be able to see more often.

I’ll maybe move to Perth, as rent is affordable there and can easily find a job in Social Care, which is my field and there’s always demand for it.

I’ll always keep in touch with my friends in Truro and Falmouth, visiting them once a year before Christmas.

This Union-state is becoming a right mess and that mess just keeps getting worse and worse by the day. Of course, living in Brex-sh*t Britain isn’t as bad as most places in the world, but definitely amongst the worst in Europe (yes, we are still in Europe, just not the EU which is different from Europe).

It was the fault of the government as well as those who voted Leave if it was based on xenophobia. Not only did they offer up the referendum, they later talked up “leave” then told lies through their back teeth about the consequence of doing so, thus steering those who would have voted “Remain” from that to “Leave”.

Edited by KernowCanary
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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Fact is, the majority of people who voted Leave are never going to admit it was a mistake.

Even if there are wholesale shortages and price increases as well as lengthy waiting lists, they will argue we are making our own laws (like banning protesting) and are free to trade with who we want.

It really doesn't matter anymore about immigration. A golfing buddy of mine has a son who has two fishing boats in Aberdeen. He doesn't land in this country. And his crew are from Ghana. They are cheaper than any European and send all their money home just like others have in the past and do not set foot in this country because of the Immigration rules.

Is that progress, exploitation or a consequence of Brexit?

You won’t get people admitting it was a mistake because they don’t believe it was a mistake, simple as that. The status quo wasn’t working for many, just because it was working well for yourself that doesn’t mean those voting differently were wrong.

Also Ghana isn’t in the EU obviously, so I’m not sure how that was relevant at all 

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12 minutes ago, KernowCanary said:

If Scotland rejoin the EU and thus goes independent in the first instance, I am definitely moving up there. I have no contacts in Ireland, the only British Isles sovereign state in the EU, but do have friends in Scotland who I will be able to see more often.

I’ll maybe move to Perth, as rent is affordable there and can easily find a job in Social Care, which is my field and there’s always demand for it.

I’ll always keep in touch with my friends in Truro and Falmouth, visiting them once a year before Christmas.

This Union-state is becoming a right mess and that mess just keeps getting worse and worse by the day. Of course, living in Brex-sh*t Britain isn’t as bad as most places in the world, but definitely amongst the worst in Europe (yes, we are still in Europe, just not the EU which is different from Europe).

It was the fault of the government as well as those who voted Leave if it was based on xenophobia. Not only did they offer up the referendum, they later talked up “leave” then told lies through their back teeth about the consequence of doing so, thus steering those who would have voted “Remain” from that to “Leave”.

If you didn't get to hear it, the journalist John Harris recently did a series on Radio 4. One of the episodes was from Perth and it sounded a rather nice place. Has its problems like other cities but still had a sense of community.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zc9s

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5 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

You won’t get people admitting it was a mistake because they don’t believe it was a mistake, simple as that. The status quo wasn’t working for many, just because it was working well for yourself that doesn’t mean those voting differently were wrong.

Also Ghana isn’t in the EU obviously, so I’m not sure how that was relevant at all 

Its perfectly relevant if you care to think about it.

So tell me what people voted for then. I assume it was to be, as they were told, better off.

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3 hours ago, Surfer said:

Yes that’s called supply and demand in an open marketplace economy, quite the opposite of plundering assets, the latter being what this current Tory government is all to familiar with. 

If supply and demand is now going to include foreign nations rather than simply the domestic labour market why limit ourselves to just EU citizens? There are plenty of countries in Africa, Asia and South America with higher unemployment rates again, and they’d be willing to work for even cheaper than the Eastern Europeans so let’s have free movement with those nations too. Those poor hard done by businesses would never have to offer pay rises again as they’d have an endless supply of labour to fill their needs.

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The BBC News website really do love their Getty Images free-use cr@p, instead of taking photos themselves.

Cheap skates by the minute, especially the cheap production values on Eastenders lately. Stopped watching it for a bit after every episode kept referencing Brexit consenquences and Jean Slater muttering about “not being in Europe anymore”.

Wikitravel’s U.K. travel guide makes for amusing reading. Under the “Respect” section, it says not to criticise the Royal Family and not discuss Brexit, as it’s a “sensitive” subject and people were led into voting for something they didn’t understand. Fair enough, but whoever wrote that hasn’t read a message board discussion forum lately, where it’s almost being discussed on every one going.

Edited by KernowCanary

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5 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

If supply and demand is now going to include foreign nations rather than simply the domestic labour market why limit ourselves to just EU citizens? There are plenty of countries in Africa, Asia and South America with higher unemployment rates again, and they’d be willing to work for even cheaper than the Eastern Europeans so let’s have free movement with those nations too. Those poor hard done by businesses would never have to offer pay rises again as they’d have an endless supply of labour to fill their needs.

I think you'll find most of the liberal minded voters wouldn't be adverse to this. Some of the less liberal wanted us to leave the EU because of "muslims" and "foreigns" in general. It's them you have to persuade.

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Doing live on-camera reports from stations don’t help the matter, especially when an idiot starts messing around in front of the camera just to get on TV.

Edited by KernowCanary

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52 minutes ago, Herman said:

I think you'll find most of the liberal minded voters wouldn't be adverse to this. Some of the less liberal wanted us to leave the EU because of "muslims" and "foreigns" in general. It's them you have to persuade.

Most “liberal” minded voters wanted to keep the old two tier immigration system whereby an unskilled worker from Europe had more right to remain than a skilled one from the subcontinent. Maybe it’s because Europeans are predominantly white and they felt uncomfortable importing those with darker skin even if they were more highly skilled 

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The old switcheroo Fen, very clever. I'm afraid only one side was obsessed with immigration. 

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26 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Most “liberal” minded voters wanted to keep the old two tier immigration system whereby an unskilled worker from Europe had more right to remain than a skilled one from the subcontinent. Maybe it’s because Europeans are predominantly white and they felt uncomfortable importing those with darker skin even if they were more highly skilled 

Freedom of movement rules require immigrants to be able to support themselves whilst looking for work, and also not be a security risk to their host nation 

I've no problem with that

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7 hours ago, Herman said:

It has to be asked again. Some of you brexiters that were "concerned" about workers wages and conditions not stop to look at the people running the vote leave campaign. The vast majority were greed is good extreme capitalists, hedge funders, anti union, Thatcherites and anti worker tories. It was pretty obvious brexit was never for the working man and would be of no benefit. 

You could also see nazis jumping in head first to the campaign. It was quite clear. Surely you could be anti EU but have seen no good would come out from joining in with them?+

This is a very odd form of argument to me. You seem to be saying that the Brexit campaign was geared towards benefitting the 1%. The problem with that argument is that the 1% only has 1% of the vote and as we know the vote for Brexit turned out to be a lot higher than that. The thing about your conspiracy theory is that it fails for the same reason that most conspiracy theories fail. And that is you would have to take everybody including Uncle Tom Cobbley along as part of the conspiracy. Everybody would have to be on it and everybody would have to keep schtoom in order for your conspiracy theory to have legs. And where would a good conspiracy theory be without a generous seasoning of nazis thrown in for good measure?

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6 hours ago, king canary said:

The idea of training up British workers is a good one but lets be honest, do you trust this government to do it? I don't. You've already got John Redwood tweeting out that online delivery companies like Hermes have managed to find drivers, apparently entirely ignorant of the fact that you don't need to take a 10 week training programme to drive a van like you do with an HGV. 

Another great example was the Tory government in 2015 scrapping grants for trainee nurses, kneecaping the number of people applying for these courses and thus forcing an added reliance on importing workers from abroad for this key role. Just no joined up thinking at all- if you want to reduce reliance on foreign labour in certain industries you don't just cut off the supply line- you actually need to incentivise people to pursue those fields.  

No I don't trust them either. Both your examples are excellent cases where a government needs to be switched on and proactive and doing this stuff before it gets out of hand, like we are seeing at the moment. Parliament is full of people who couldn't run a whelk stall and they are in it for what they can get out of it. That's true for all sides. Agree with you entirely.

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4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Fact is, the majority of people who voted Leave are never going to admit it was a mistake.

Even if there are wholesale shortages and price increases as well as lengthy waiting lists, they will argue we are making our own laws (like banning protesting) and are free to trade with who we want.

It really doesn't matter anymore about immigration. A golfing buddy of mine has a son who has two fishing boats in Aberdeen. He doesn't land in this country. And his crew are from Ghana. They are cheaper than any European and send all their money home just like others have in the past and do not set foot in this country because of the Immigration rules.

Is that progress, exploitation or a consequence of Brexit?

No, it's exploiting two people from Ghana. Why doesn't your mates son pay the same going rate as a European? 

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3 hours ago, KernowCanary said:

If Scotland rejoin the EU and thus goes independent in the first instance, I am definitely moving up there. I have no contacts in Ireland, the only British Isles sovereign state in the EU, but do have friends in Scotland who I will be able to see more often.

I’ll maybe move to Perth, as rent is affordable there and can easily find a job in Social Care, which is my field and there’s always demand for it.

I’ll always keep in touch with my friends in Truro and Falmouth, visiting them once a year before Christmas.

This Union-state is becoming a right mess and that mess just keeps getting worse and worse by the day. Of course, living in Brex-sh*t Britain isn’t as bad as most places in the world, but definitely amongst the worst in Europe (yes, we are still in Europe, just not the EU which is different from Europe).

It was the fault of the government as well as those who voted Leave if it was based on xenophobia. Not only did they offer up the referendum, they later talked up “leave” then told lies through their back teeth about the consequence of doing so, thus steering those who would have voted “Remain” from that to “Leave”.

Your memory is different to mine. At the time of the referendum, the Government was pro-Remain. They did not talk-up leaving.

You don't have to wait for Scotland to join the EU to move to that country. It's possible to move today.

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7 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Freedom of movement rules require immigrants to be able to support themselves whilst looking for work, and also not be a security risk to their host nation 

I've no problem with that

But they had no provisions to prevent those workers being exploited, being paid below the going rate for their industry or undercutting the local workforce, which is what the argument was about from the very beginning. There was also no rules which allowed the government to put a cap on numbers if too many arrived and put pressure on housing a public services.

Saying the government could deport those who broke the law or didn’t work is simply (most likely a deliberate) a diversion tactic to avoid debating the points to which you had no answers.

I can’t see why people get so upset over the end of free movement for EU citizens. What is it about the old two tier system that was so good? Why do you believe they deserve special treatment in regards to immigration compared to other parts of the world? Why should an unskilled Estonian have more right to remain than a skilled Indian for example? To me treating all nations citizens the same would be the fairest and most liberal system 

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8 hours ago, KernowCanary said:

The BBC News website really do love their Getty Images free-use cr@p, instead of taking photos themselves.

Cheap skates by the minute, especially the cheap production values on Eastenders lately. Stopped watching it for a bit after every episode kept referencing Brexit consenquences and Jean Slater muttering about “not being in Europe anymore”.

Wikitravel’s U.K. travel guide makes for amusing reading. Under the “Respect” section, it says not to criticise the Royal Family and not discuss Brexit, as it’s a “sensitive” subject and people were led into voting for something they didn’t understand. Fair enough, but whoever wrote that hasn’t read a message board discussion forum lately, where it’s almost being discussed on every one going.

The fact anybody can edit Wikitravel means it probably isn’t a good source for anything factual to be honest, especially something as polarised as the EU referendum 

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