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The Positive Brexit Thread

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Anybody see the C4 'Anti-Vaxer' documentary last night.

Truly shocking how 'snake-oil' salesmen prey on the vulnerable.

Reminded me of one or two leading Brexiteers who also prey on the vulnerable who were looking/needed somebody else to blame - and a nice little (or big) earner too.

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19 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

So you think bar workers are paid a good wage ?  I'd like to see you live off it.

So why the fu*ck did you vote for a brexit deal that makes it possible (indeed inevitable) for a lowering of workers rights? I guess you also haven't read Rabb, Truss, Patel's (et al) book which argues precisely for a radical reduction in workers rights.

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1 hour ago, horsefly said:

So why the fu*ck did you vote for a brexit deal that makes it possible (indeed inevitable) for a lowering of workers rights? I guess you also haven't read Rabb, Truss, Patel's (et al) book which argues precisely for a radical reduction in workers rights.

This is the old chestnut that has bamboozled our Brexity friends.

I would have fewer arguments with Brexit if it was sold properly and we cut all state benefits (including pensions) and go for a US model. That would make economic sense and energize the economy if extremely painful for many. Uncompetitive fishermen, farmers go bust - so what - they can always flip imported burgers. This is the true ERG dream.

Instead we have our Brexity friends sold on European social structures and benefits - protectionism,  but without easy access to their similarly protected high standard markets - and left with trying to compete now globally on lowest price goods. What could possibly go wrong?

Stupid is as stupid does.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

So you think bar workers are paid a good wage ?  I'd like to see you live off it.

The whole Brexit immigration argument was that we wouldn't let C2DE semi and unskilled immigration workers into the country unless there was a dire need, and this would drive up workers wages for the British citizens. Tim Martin now seems to have done a total 180 on his position.

 

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9643725/Lord-Frost-demands-EU-shows-common-sense-Northern-Ireland.html

Lord Frost criticises Lord Frost for negotiating a bad deal. Lord Frost continuously makes Lord Frost look stupid by saying the same thing over and over again despite people telling Lord Frost that the person who he's really criticising is Lord Frost. 

 

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3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

So you think bar workers are paid a good wage ?  I'd like to see you live off it.

Wow, for once you are half right which is noteworthy in itself but you are still missing the main points.

The Tories and Brexiteers, mostly the same thing nowadays keep telling us that the market, i.e. private enterprise works best in all areas even in public services, even though this countries is absolutely littered with proofs that this is not the case, and they also told lots of lies about freedom of movement in the Single Market.

Lie 1: that workers from the EU, especially the eastern Europeans, were depriving British people of jobs that they wanted but failed to get  because the EU workers were prepared to work for less money. Well that was a lie, as we knew all along, because the EU workers have gone/no longer allowed in and, with as you say many UK unemployed, still nobody wants these jobs.

Lie 2: that workers from the EU, especially the eastern Europeans, were depressing wages generally in certain sectors of the econmoy because that they were prepared to work for lower wages and that if they left then wages in the UK would rise in those areas. Well you pose the question yourself - is Tim Martin going to give all his workers a significant pay rise to attract in the staff he needs - of course he bl00dy isn't. Are social care workers, of which there has been a desperate shortage for many years and who are still earning peanuts, going to be paid a reasonable price for the valuble work they do?  No chance!!!!

Even nurses, of which there has also been a desperate shortage for at least the last 6 years (and probably longer) and who endured 8 years of no pay rises underTory austerity (so when inflation is factored in, 8 years of pay cuts) and are now only going to get half the pretty meagre rise they were promised last year.

None of this is either inevitable or accidental, it is the result of electing a bunch of incompetent liars who are completely  unconcerned about the best interests of the UK. As long as they keep their backers. i.e. the  hedge funds and the rest of the dodgy money happy, and they can continue to fool enough mugs like you to keep voting for them then this is the way the country is going to carry on, stumbling from one crisis to the next.

Other than the super rich, who are immune to all this, the rest of us of going to keep getting poorer whilst we also see our public services degrade further - not a pretty picture but one we are definitely locked into for the next 3-4 years and most likely even longer.   😠😠

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5 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

So you think bar workers are paid a good wage ?  I'd like to see you live off it.

I don’t but anyone that voted for Brexit did as Jools constantly tells us as did Farage British jobs for Brits. Now because of your hatred of Europeans there are no EU workers to take the jobs and like you say Brits were never going to take them, so I have no idea why Farage said they would.

You have just exposed another blatant lie so thank you.

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Who the **** drinks in Wetherspoons anyway? Just to get a cheaper pint? I like to savour my beer and I don't mind paying more for a better place to drink it in. Our local Wetherspoons is just a place for the Alkies to get a drink at 8am. They tend to leave the cooked breakfast they ordered with it.

Tim Martin is another gob****e who pretends he is a caring licensee. In fact, he has a load of booze barns.

And he isn't going to pay any more than he has to despite all his rantings that the UK will be a better place for workers after Brexit.

 

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38 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I don’t but anyone that voted for Brexit did as Jools constantly tells us as did Farage British jobs for Brits. Now because of your hatred of Europeans there are no EU workers to take the jobs and like you say Brits were never going to take them, so I have no idea why Farage said they would.

You have just exposed another blatant lie so thank you.

I don't hate Europeans I hate the EU 

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26 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I don't hate Europeans I hate the EU 

So it wasn’t EU workers that went home ( nurses as well ). Did you actually understand this was what Farage was telling you ? Claiming the jobs you wouldn’t take but you expected other Brits to take. 
You voted for it, you go and do it because the British are not interested unlike the lies you spun.

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Rather than regurgitate press releases about everyday levels of commercial investment in a top ten global economy that would normally never see the light of day except for a desperate need to show "Brexit is working" (it isn't) how about reporting on the abject failure of the Government to negotiate the Brexit deal?

Lord Frost  - oops, that Northern Ireland deal that Boris and I negotiated isn't sustainable .... yeah no kidding...

 

Yu don't say... .jpg

Edited by Surfer

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5 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9643725/Lord-Frost-demands-EU-shows-common-sense-Northern-Ireland.html

Lord Frost criticises Lord Frost for negotiating a bad deal. Lord Frost continuously makes Lord Frost look stupid by saying the same thing over and over again despite people telling Lord Frost that the person who he's really criticising is Lord Frost. 

 

Ever seen those videos of a dog attacking its own image in a mirror???

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20 hours ago, BigFish said:

What we need is some sort of scheme that allows workers to move here freely, particularly from countries close to us and from the former Eastern Bloc where I understand the wages are lower. It would be a great boon for agriculture, care homes & the NHS. Anyone got any ideas?

No we don’t, what we need is a visa system that isn’t a racist two tier model like the old one, that allows the nationally elected government to increase or decrease immigration levels as per the countries need. If we have a skills shortage in certain areas, then we make it easier for people with those skills to join the UK, if we have no need for the skills they have then they don’t get to come in.

For what it’s worth I don’t class hospitality as having a skills shortage, they simply need to offer better pay and working conditions to attract staff. This is how our economy of supply and demand is supposed to operate, rather than simply importing low wage workers from poorer countries. Produce pickers are slightly different in my eyes, as the seasonal nature of the work and the rural locations means it’s not a viable career for many, so this could be fixed using temporary work visas for the duration of the season.

Nobody ever called for completely sealed borders, it was only ever the Remain camp that tried to portray that as the case. The country will always need immigration, just not the low skilled free for all we had before. 

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"Nobody ever called for completely sealed borders, it was only ever the Remain camp that tried to portray that as the case. The country will always need immigration, just not the low skilled free for all we had before."

Come off it Fen. You do realise some of the people you got into bed with and without whose vote you wouldn't have got brexit done? 

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2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

No we don’t, what we need is a visa system that isn’t a racist two tier model like the old one, that allows the nationally elected government to increase or decrease immigration levels as per the countries need. If we have a skills shortage in certain areas, then we make it easier for people with those skills to join the UK, if we have no need for the skills they have then they don’t get to come in.

For what it’s worth I don’t class hospitality as having a skills shortage, they simply need to offer better pay and working conditions to attract staff. This is how our economy of supply and demand is supposed to operate, rather than simply importing low wage workers from poorer countries. Produce pickers are slightly different in my eyes, as the seasonal nature of the work and the rural locations means it’s not a viable career for many, so this could be fixed using temporary work visas for the duration of the season.

Nobody ever called for completely sealed borders, it was only ever the Remain camp that tried to portray that as the case. The country will always need immigration, just not the low skilled free for all we had before. 

 

1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Hospitality and Catering news thinks that there is a shortage 

I have no idea whether this organisation has any sort  of political "agenda", though 

 

1 hour ago, Herman said:

"Nobody ever called for completely sealed borders, it was only ever the Remain camp that tried to portray that as the case. The country will always need immigration, just not the low skilled free for all we had before."

Come off it Fen. You do realise some of the people you got into bed with and without whose vote you wouldn't have got brexit done? 

Obviously not working, is it @Fen Canary? No surprise really as its advocates had only the sketchiest understanding of economics. Hospitality has enormous elasticity of demand. Better pay & working conditions will feed through to higher prices, higher prices feeds through to reduced demand, reduced demand feeds through to reduced supply, reduced supply feeds through to more empty premises on the high street and reduced tax take. Result is we all end up poorer and miss out on nights out to boot.

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5 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

 

Obviously not working, is it @Fen Canary? No surprise really as its advocates had only the sketchiest understanding of economics. Hospitality has enormous elasticity of demand. Better pay & working conditions will feed through to higher prices, higher prices feeds through to reduced demand, reduced demand feeds through to reduced supply, reduced supply feeds through to more empty premises on the high street and reduced tax take. Result is we all end up poorer and miss out on nights out to boot.

So your solution is a race to the bottom, essentially Thatcherism on steroids? Import unlimited cheap labour, pay them not enough to live just to keep an unviable business afloat? Never mind that the workers are living in poverty, as long as your daily coffee doesn’t cost you an extra 50p!

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

"Nobody ever called for completely sealed borders, it was only ever the Remain camp that tried to portray that as the case. The country will always need immigration, just not the low skilled free for all we had before."

Come off it Fen. You do realise some of the people you got into bed with and without whose vote you wouldn't have got brexit done? 

I didn’t get into bed with anybody, the reasons people voted to leave are their own. Many big businesses wanted freedom of movement laws to stay because using immigration to undercut the local workforce meant more money stayed at the top, yet you were happy to accept help from these hyper capitalists. What’s the difference? 

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1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Hospitality and Catering news thinks that there is a shortage 

I have no idea whether this organisation has any sort  of political "agenda", though 

They are scared of losing their cheap labour, of course they’re going to lobby for more workers as is their right. For the government to give in would be political suicide at the moment though

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Fen, still desperately trying to blame others for his actions. Well done.

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"EU red tape" is the new slogan instead of "what you bloody well voted for".

 

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32 minutes ago, Herman said:

"EU red tape" is the new slogan instead of "what you bloody well voted for".

 

Indeed! The reality is that it is "Brexit deal red tape" as the regulations involved are what have been agreed by BOTH sides in the deal that was signed by the UK.

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26 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Your link leads to, "page not found" and the following very appropriate cartoon:

Sorry, page not found

Sorry, it's saying that illegal channel crossing migrants are complaining because they have not been put in a posh hotel instead they are put in short term accommodation !

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18 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Sorry, it's saying that illegal channel crossing migrants are complaining because they have not been put in a posh hotel instead they are put in short term accommodation !

Guess they are not EU citizens ? Thought it was only EU citizens you had a problem with. 
Not sure what this has to do with Brexit, do they want to come here so they can get out of countries in the EU ?

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20 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Guess they are not EU citizens ? Thought it was only EU citizens you had a problem with. 
Not sure what this has to do with Brexit, do they want to come here so they can get out of countries in the EU ?

I'm not against EU people I'm just against the EU ! 

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