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The Positive Brexit Thread

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14 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

like most of you that voted to stay in, you will find that those that voted to leave were willing to take a chance or the vote would have been greater !

Que?

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The Telegraph

Goldman Sachs said real-time tracking data on port shipping shows that trade is buoyant again after the teething pains in January. There have been 363 container and tanker ship visits over the last week, 5pc above the equivalent level in 2019 when the UK was still effectively part of the EU. 

Strong activity was recorded at Imminghman, Grimsby, Teesside and Liverpool. Dover no longer has the same indicative relevance as shippers switch routes due to loss of confidence in the land route. This is better for carbon emissions and road congestion. 

Bank of America rushed through an upgrade this week after surprisingly strong GDP data for March, raising its forecast for this year from 5.9pc to 7.4pc. Its indicator of “optimism in the UK economy” had reached the highest on record.

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13 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I was never devoted to the EU.  I voted Remain because I knew what I was getting. No-one, Farage, Johnson, Barnier, you or me knows what leaving will mean for us. I didn't think was worth the gamble to leave. Better the Devil you know.

Inside the EU you have a chance of altering it if you wish. Except, all the UK did was moan. Now we are out we have no influence.

 

The first paragraph is essentially the whole EU debate in a nutshell. Those at the bottom who didn’t see any benefits of EU membership, who had to battle new arrivals from Eastern Europe for jobs and housing, thought leaving was worth the gamble. Those who were financially comfortable were happy with the status quo. Unfortunately for the second group there were more people in the first. We can argue and debate, and many on here have for the last 5 years, but ultimately as none of us can predict the future it boiled down to whether you thought leaving was worth the risk or not

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1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

The first paragraph is essentially the whole EU debate in a nutshell. Those at the bottom who didn’t see any benefits of EU membership, who had to battle new arrivals from Eastern Europe for jobs and housing, thought leaving was worth the gamble. Those who were financially comfortable were happy with the status quo. Unfortunately for the second group there were more people in the first. We can argue and debate, and many on here have for the last 5 years, but ultimately as none of us can predict the future it boiled down to whether you thought leaving was worth the risk or not

The Leave campaign was based on the promise that there was no serious downside and so no real risk. The whole cake-and-eat-it/they-need-us-more-than-we-need-them bag of blatant and already disproved lies.

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1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Leave campaign was based on the promise that there was no serious downside and so no real risk. The whole cake-and-eat-it/they-need-us-more-than-we-need-them bag of blatant and already disproved lies.

And the remain camp was based on catastrophic predictions for leaving while painting the EU as some sort of utopia that benefitted all of us, when it clearly wasn’t the case. Both sides rely on exaggerated predictions, it’s been the case for every election in my lifetime. You just have to look at opinions on here about how we could have changed the EU from within, forgetting that when Cameron tried just that he was sent packing, to see there was just as much nonsense from Remain as there was from Farage. There will be winners and losers from voting to leave, exactly the same as their were winners and losers from being a member. It’s simply that at the time of the referendum more people than not thought the negatives of being a member outweighed the positives, and the hysterical reaction from the losing side has merely hardened their stance 

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20 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

And the remain camp was based on catastrophic predictions for leaving while painting the EU as some sort of utopia that benefitted all of us, when it clearly wasn’t the case. Both sides rely on exaggerated predictions, it’s been the case for every election in my lifetime. You just have to look at opinions on here about how we could have changed the EU from within, forgetting that when Cameron tried just that he was sent packing, to see there was just as much nonsense from Remain as there was from Farage. There will be winners and losers from voting to leave, exactly the same as their were winners and losers from being a member. It’s simply that at the time of the referendum more people than not thought the negatives of being a member outweighed the positives, and the hysterical reaction from the losing side has merely hardened their stance 

No. None of that is accurate. It is true leading Remainers panicked when they realised they might lose and made some dumb predictions, but the overall Remain campaign was reasonably truthful about the EU, whereas the Leave campaign was a blatant lie from start to finish. And the idea that the UK never got its way in the EU and never changed it is plain nonsense.

As the prime minister of Luxembourg said, the UK had spent its whole four or more decades getting opt-outs. Plus it had a veto on major issues. Cameron only got rejected because the EU decided, with good reason, that it had already made quite enough concessions. As to there going to be winners and losers from leaving, it may be possible to point to a few benefits but overall the balance sheet is undoubtedly negative at the moment, and is likely to stay so.

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9 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No. None of that is accurate. It is true leading Remainers panicked when they realised they might lose and made some dumb predictions, but the overall Remain campaign was reasonably truthful about the EU, whereas the Leave campaign was a blatant lie from start to finish. And the idea that the UK never got its way in the EU and never changed it is plain nonsense.

As the prime minister of Luxembourg said, the UK had spent its whole four or more decades getting opt-outs. Plus it had a veto on major issues. Cameron only got rejected because the EU decided, with good reason, that it had already made quite enough concessions. As to there going to be winners and losers from leaving, it may be possible to point to a few benefits but overall the balance sheet is undoubtedly negative at the moment, and is likely to stay so.

So the Leave camps exaggerations are blatant lies, whereas the Remain camps exaggerations were some dumb predictions?

As you say, the EU rejected Cameron because in their eyes they had already made enough concessions, which is fair enough. However if that’s the case then we couldn’t have reformed it any more from the inside, as Cameron had already tried and failed. Therefore the option was remain in the EU as it presently was rather than some utopian idea of what we could make it become, or take our chances on our own. I chose the latter

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2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

The first paragraph is essentially the whole EU debate in a nutshell. Those at the bottom who didn’t see any benefits of EU membership, who had to battle new arrivals from Eastern Europe for jobs and housing, thought leaving was worth the gamble. Those who were financially comfortable were happy with the status quo. Unfortunately for the second group there were more people in the first. We can argue and debate, and many on here have for the last 5 years, but ultimately as none of us can predict the future it boiled down to whether you thought leaving was worth the risk or not

The myth that it was mostly the "left behinds" that voted for brexit is simply that, a myth, to try and make it look like you were doing your best for the poor. A large portion were the "doing oks", house owners, reasonable pension holders, country dwellers and a large proportion of people that weren't affected (and actually profited) from immigration. Yes there were a few towns that had an influx of migrant workers, eg in Lincolshire,Kent, that had caused a lot of problems, but a lot of comfortable middle class towns (like my own), also went big style for brexit.

You need to spend today looking at voting demographics to see what actually went on.

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You won the war anyway Fen, so you should be happy. But all I and others have seen from the leave voters is the same misery and grumbles that won you the war. Start trying to win the peace and it may have all been worth it. All I see is the rubbish that we warned you would happen.

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22 minutes ago, Herman said:

The myth that it was mostly the "left behinds" that voted for brexit is simply that, a myth, to try and make it look like you were doing your best for the poor. A large portion were the "doing oks", house owners, reasonable pension holders, country dwellers and a large proportion of people that weren't affected (and actually profited) from immigration. Yes there were a few towns that had an influx of migrant workers, eg in Lincolshire,Kent, that had caused a lot of problems, but a lot of comfortable middle class towns (like my own), also went big style for brexit.

You need to spend today looking at voting demographics to see what actually went on.

Looks to me like our struggling coastal towns were some of the strongest supporters of leaving, along with the old industrial heartlands, whereas London and the shires leant more towards remaining, in England anyway so stop rewriting history by claiming it was a middle class vote to leave. Also I’ve never claimed I voted the way I did to help the poor, I voted to leave purely out of self interest.

Finally I don’t need to win the peace, you simply need to make peace with the result 

62D49714-0431-4831-86E7-AB1A0C35E921.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Looks to me like our struggling coastal towns were some of the strongest supporters of leaving, along with the old industrial heartlands, whereas London and the shires leant more towards remaining, in England anyway so stop rewriting history by claiming it was a middle class vote to leave. Also I’ve never claimed I voted the way I did to help the poor, I voted to leave purely out of self interest.

Finally I don’t need to win the peace, you simply need to make peace with the result 

62D49714-0431-4831-86E7-AB1A0C35E921.jpeg

On what planet does this map show "the shires leant more towards remaining, in England"?

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20 minutes ago, Herman said:

You start proving me wrong and I'll make peace with the result.

Give it 10 years and we’ll see who’s performing better, the UK or EU. Until then we’re all wasting our time. 

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Leave campaign was based on the promise that there was no serious downside and so no real risk. The whole cake-and-eat-it/they-need-us-more-than-we-need-them bag of blatant and already disproved lies.

This @Fen Canary. There was no talk of "give it ten years". The people were promised there would be no downside. You can't rewrite history when all of lived through it and most of us paid attention.

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36 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Give it 10 years and we’ll see who’s performing better, the UK or EU. Until then we’re all wasting our time. 

So destroying the livelihoods of the owners of many SMEs, fishermen, dairy producers, farmers etc, etc, etc, is all worth it for a highly speculative gamble that we "might" be doing better than the EU in ten years time. What an utterly callous and shameful disregard for the lives and livelihoods of other people who were lied to by anti-EU ideologues.

Edited by horsefly

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39 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Well done England, the map shows it as mainly Blue 👍

Well done brexiteers for setting in place the break-up of the UK.

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1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

The leavers have taken a huge dump on the UK and are now saying "I'd give it ten years if I was you".

 

Succinctly put! Only the stench will last a lot longer than that.

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6 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Well done brexiteers for setting in place the break-up of the UK.

Even after seeing that map, brexiters will still not get why Scotland wants to go its own way rather than being dragged into something they overwhelmingly voted against.

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3 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

majority still won !

Your genius never ceases to amaze. No doubt you've also heard of the notion of a pyrrhic victory. Never have we had a "better" modern day example of that concept.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Well done England, the map shows it as mainly Blue 👍

You still seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Brexit. Is it because you cannot believe it? The vote was leave. No disputing that. We have left.

All we are trying to say to you is that you were lied to by the self interest groups. Your mind was probably made up.

Mine wasn't totally. But I came to the conclusion that if we voted to remain, then I knew what the future would bring. Now I don't. I wasn't prepared to vote for uncertainty.

So we saved £350M a week or £18Bn a year. We are now wasting at least 6 times that on a rail link.

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26 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Your genius never ceases to amaze. No doubt you've also heard of the notion of a pyrrhic victory. Never have we had a "better" modern day example of that concept.

well, believe it some people can't stop complaining about Brexit. It's happened get over it  !

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5 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

well, believe it some people can't stop complaining about Brexit. It's happened get over it  !

I'm sure the people of Northern Ireland, and all those failed and failing SMEs are thankful for your incredibly sophisticated and helpful advice 

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

You still seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Brexit. Is it because you cannot believe it? The vote was leave. No disputing that. We have left.

All we are trying to say to you is that you were lied to by the self interest groups. Your mind was probably made up.

Mine wasn't totally. But I came to the conclusion that if we voted to remain, then I knew what the future would bring. Now I don't. I wasn't prepared to vote for uncertainty.

So we saved £350M a week or £18Bn a year. We are now wasting at least 6 times that on a rail link.

Why are you telling people to get over it Swindon? 

This is the Positive Brexit thread. And many have found no positives.

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4 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

So the Leave camps exaggerations are blatant lies, whereas the Remain camps exaggerations were some dumb predictions?

As you say, the EU rejected Cameron because in their eyes they had already made enough concessions, which is fair enough. However if that’s the case then we couldn’t have reformed it any more from the inside, as Cameron had already tried and failed. Therefore the option was remain in the EU as it presently was rather than some utopian idea of what we could make it become, or take our chances on our own. I chose the latter

Again wrong. You are confusing, deliberately or otherwise, Cameron's attempts to get even more cherry-picking opt-out concessions for the UK alone with the EU-wide question of reforms to the way the organisation worked for all. That the EU, rightly, said enough was enough over more opt-outs does not mean the UK, if it had stayed in, could not have pushed for and achieved significant reforms.

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