The Positive Brexit Thread

[Bill 1,788]

An excellent summary of the horrors Brexit is now inflicting on UK businesses, made worse by the knowledge that is just the beginning

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/07/from-fashion-to-farming-how-brexit-is-hitting-britains-trade

''Last year, Murray McGregor travelled to northern Italy to collect more than 1,000 packages of bees. It is a road trip he has been making every spring for many years. On his way back to Scotland he drops off pre-ordered packages to bee farmers at motorway service stations throughout England. But he won’t be making the trip this year.''

The thought has to be that where industry can move io the EU it will, where it can't it will simply reduce, or die.

[Bill 1,788]

15 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I wonder what other medicines they are turning down because they are sourced outside of the UK? YF is right, they ain't got long on this earth.

Paris  cetamol..... froggie stuff 😬

[Well b back 3,200]

John Redwood

 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

John Redwood

 

The trouble is that for most with any common sense this was all too predictable. 

And we haven't by a long way seen the worst of it yet.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

John Redwood

 

Wonder if he has learnt the Welsh national anthem yet?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Foster now say ing all Unionists must come together to get rid of the Irish Sea checks.

So the representatives of less than 900K are saying we must break the rules that we agreed with the representatives of over 400 million people.

The DUP make me want to vomit at times. Lets have another referendum about NI leaving the Union.

[Jools 584]

6 hours ago, kick it off said:

Absolutely. No sympathy if they catch it and die. That's a direct result of their own xenophobia and stupidity and nobody's fault but their own.

How about the thousands of BAME folk refusing the vaccine, KiO? Are you as equally unsympathetic toward them?

[Herman 9,754]

I suppose racism plays a part in both cases.

Some of the BAME community are refusing them because of racist policies in the past have lead to a level mistrust.

Some other communities are refusing them because of their own racism and bigotry.

 

[Jools 584]

40 minutes ago, Herman said:

I suppose racism plays a part in both cases.

Some of the BAME community are refusing them because of racist policies in the past have lead to a level mistrust.

Some other communities are refusing them because of their own racism and bigotry.

 

[Herman 9,754]

On 06/02/2021 at 15:29, Surfer said:

He did indeed. And we all look forward to that becoming true - if it does. Meanwhile we can also all see the damage being done to the UK economy NOW, and for those sectors it isn’t going to get better quickly, as it is what the UK government wanted (the new import / export rules if not the logical outcome of those rules) 

But go ahead attack the universities, why not, authoritarians always attack science, culture, education, religion, anything that stands in the way of their specific political ideology. 

I wonder if their ideology was behind their forgetting of the British music industry? Either that or incompetence/lack of knowledge.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/07/elton-john-brexit-negotiators-screwed-up-deal-for-british-musicians

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

13 hours ago, kirku said:

I see RTB is back telling us about his views on financial markets.

Let's not forget this is the same poster who thought that the loss of 6bn annual share trading was outweighed by a 7bn IPO because the number 7 is higher than the number 6.

I think this is what they meant when they said that they'd had enough of experts..

Yes, one single deal was bigger than the sum total of your pathetic argument. Surprised to see you back on here gloating at your ignorance. Takes all sorts, I suppose.

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

I suppose racism plays a part in both cases.

Some of the BAME community are refusing them because of racist policies in the past have lead to a level mistrust.

Some other communities are refusing them because of their own racism and bigotry.

 

What's Piers Corbyn's excuse?

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

36 minutes ago, Herman said:

I wonder if their ideology was behind their forgetting of the British music industry? Either that or incompetence/lack of knowledge.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/07/elton-john-brexit-negotiators-screwed-up-deal-for-british-musicians

As Roger Daltry famously points out, bands used to tour the continent before we joined the common market. We are back to that same situation. Only covid stopping you taking your guitar to Hamburg tomorrow, Herman.

[Herman 9,754]

This Roger Daltrey?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/20/brexiter-roger-daltrey-criticises-restrictions-for-musicians-touring-europe

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

20 hours ago, Surfer said:

Yes heaven forbid that you would ever be exposed to the truth..... for example the N.I trade issues were known to the U.K Gov, who promptly ignored them / lied about them, and now want to blame the EU for them. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55952459

The NI Protocol is the reason why we should have gone into EU negotiations with a threat to walk away with no deal, because if we had then we never would have been stuck with this millstone around our neck. The Protocol is the legacy of the incompetence of Theresa May and all those who worked their damnest to undermine negotiations and water down Brexit.

So Boris Johnson came to the table with the hand that was dealt to May and he's had to work with what he was given.. It was clear at the outset that the protocols were just a fudge to satisfy those who demanded the GFA be honoured. It was also clear that the fudge was unworkable unless good faith was shown on all sides.

Fortunately, those now in power see the protocols for the nonsense they are and combined with the enormous howler committed by the EU by invoking Art 16, however briefly, the conditions have been created whereby Johnson can begin to unpick the protocols, which he must do. The border in the Irish Sea will eventually be removed and will rightfully moved to between north and south. Borders exist where nations adjoin one another. And then the onus is on the Irish. If they want to keep free movement between Ireland and Ulster they will need to leave the EU. We can even give them a FTA if they do, which would benefit the Irish considerably since most of their trade is with the UK. First dibs on surplus vaccines another bonus for the Micks.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

Whining post-Brexit mantra by whining Brexiter* Number 37:

'This is all going wrong. This is not the Brexit I voted for.'

Reality-check reply from the real world:

'Oh yes it is. Anyone who voted for Brexit had to assume it would produce a worst-case scenario as far as the UK economy was concerned. Actually you should count yourself lucky you don't - yet - have the absolute worst-case of a lemming-like No-Deal, but only the next very nearly as bad worst thing.'

*Strictly speaking 'Whining post-Brexit mantra by whining Brexiter' is of course a double tautology, with both 'whinings' superfluous.

[SwindonCanary 455]

I HOPE YOU GUYS KNOW THE TITLE OF THIS THEAD !

https://youtu.be/041h4sphNSE

 

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I HOPE YOU GUYS KNOW THE TITLE OF THIS THEAD !

https://youtu.be/041h4sphNSE

 

We do, but we are conscious of the example of Len Shackleton, a very talented footballer and also a bit of a wit, who in his autobiography had a chapter entitled 'The average club director's knowledge of football'. Anyone turning to the page would find it blank...

[horsefly 4,297]

9 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I HOPE YOU GUYS KNOW THE TITLE OF THIS THEAD !

https://youtu.be/041h4sphNSE

 

Do you know how the people of Northern Ireland voted in the referendum? Do remind us of the figures.

[Well b back 3,200]

19 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I HOPE YOU GUYS KNOW THE TITLE OF THIS THEAD !

https://youtu.be/041h4sphNSE

 

I am very confused, but I appreciate I don’t understand this article 16 stuff. Are they saying by playing hardball Johnson got a very good deal ? If so why are they setting up a petition against it ? Was it not as good as they thought ?.

 

[horsefly 4,297]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I am very confused, but I appreciate I don’t understand this article 16 stuff. Are they saying by playing hardball Johnson got a very good deal ? If so why are they setting up a petition against it ? Was it not as good as they thought ?.

 

Once the Tories ruled out remaining in the single market or joining a customs union, they were left with no other tactic regarding the land border with the EU other than to gamble on the EU rolling over and allowing frictionless trade to continue between GB and NI nonetheless (given the obvious assumption that not even this government would threaten the GFA with a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland). However, this would effectively mean the EU giving the UK de facto access to the SM without being a member. It was never going to happen; it was a ridiculous gamble. 

The DUP petition to get rid of the Northern Ireland Protocol is just another futile attempt at repeating the folly of the original gamble. It remains inconceiveable that the EU would allow the integrity of the SM to be threatened by removal of the protocol. The bottom line is that the Brexit deal is indeed a dreadful deal for NI, but it is irresolvably so. And let's not forget that the application of the NIP at the moment benefits from the light-touch of a "grace period" (The one Gove is currently pleading for an extension).

It's worth noting that the DUP are playing with fire here. 55% of NI voted to remain in the EU, and it seems very clear that the NI public have no appetite at all for any political action that would undermine the peace-time benefits of the GFA. The DUP's antics are a clear sign of the desperate position they find themselves in; not only are they inextricably tied to support for a very unpopular brexit, they are now tying themselves to a policy that puts at risk the very popular GFA. The only cause they are likely to advance is that for the reunification of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Edited February 8, 2021 by horsefly

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

I am very confused, but I appreciate I don’t understand this article 16 stuff. Are they saying by playing hardball Johnson got a very good deal ? If so why are they setting up a petition against it ? Was it not as good as they thought ?.

 

The moment May, as soon as she became PM, said Brexit meant Brexit, with no single market and no customs union, she set the UK on the path towards an economically damaging Brexit. But specifically that the Northern Ireland economy would be damaged no mattter what, because one way or another there would have to be a hard (ie slow and bureaucratic) border somewhere between the UK, as a non-EU and non-single market country, and the EU-membership Irish Republic.

May's 'solution' was to have that border between the north and south of Ireland. The problem with that being that no-one could dream up a simple and unbureaucratic way of checking goods that would not undermine the integrity of the single market.

So when Johnson became PM he demanded a different plan (mainly so he could claim he was a great negotiator)  and got the EU to agree to what the EU had always wanted, which was the  border in the Irish Sea, between Britain and the island of Ireland, with NI in effect staying in the single market.

But that only switched the problem of a border between a single-market country and a non single-market country from one place to another. It was never going to solve the basic problem that May's hard Brexit created, that somewhere there would have to be this border that damaged the NI economy.

Far from Johnson  playing hardball to get the deal he wanted, his absurd posturing gave the EU the deal it wanted. All that is happening now is that Johnson's short-term posturing is coming home to roost. May sold NI down the river one way and Johnon is doing it another.

Edited February 8, 2021 by PurpleCanary

[Icecream Snow 761]

Summary from Sir Ivan Rogers. The difference being that Theresa May was trying to keep all three commitments and agreed the weird 'backstop' compromise.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/may-warned-in-2016-that-brexit-plan-for-ireland-would-not-work-38318693.html

Sir Ivan said that in 2016 he delivered "one of the most unpopular things" he had told to the PM.

He said it was that "you have made three commitments in good faith to different audiences, but they are not really compatible with each other".

"You have said to the Irish ... under no circumstances will a hard border be erected across the island of Ireland.

"You have said to the Democratic Unionist community under no circumstances will there be divergence from the rest of Great Britain.

"And you have said to the right of your own party that you are heading out of the customs union.

"You can't do all three. You have got to choose two of the three."

[horsefly 4,297]

5 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Summary from Sir Ivan Rogers. The difference being that Theresa May was trying to keep all three commitments and agreed the weird 'backstop' compromise.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/may-warned-in-2016-that-brexit-plan-for-ireland-would-not-work-38318693.html

Sir Ivan said that in 2016 he delivered "one of the most unpopular things" he had told to the PM.

He said it was that "you have made three commitments in good faith to different audiences, but they are not really compatible with each other".

"You have said to the Irish ... under no circumstances will a hard border be erected across the island of Ireland.

"You have said to the Democratic Unionist community under no circumstances will there be divergence from the rest of Great Britain.

"And you have said to the right of your own party that you are heading out of the customs union.

"You can't do all three. You have got to choose two of the three."

Spot on! And Boris decided to ignore this advice too. Hence all the lies and the inevitability of a dreadful deal. Mind you, it has to be said that the DUP must be incredibly thick not to have worked out that they were being taken for mugs by Boris.

[horsefly 4,297]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/uk-importers-brace-for-disaster-as-new-brexit-customs-checks-loom/ar-BB1dsSds?ocid=msedgntp

British firms are warning of an escalation in Brexit red tape as the government prepares to introduce a long list of new controls on imports from the European Union in April and July.

 

In the coming months further checks are due to be phased in at the UK border, controlling everything from the import of sausages and live mussels to horses and trees, as well as the locations these checks can take place.

One logistics firm warned the situation had “disaster written all over it”, saying businesses need more time to prepare, while accountancy firm KPMG said some of the “biggest headaches” facing traders are yet to come. Importers fear UK customs are not ready for the new controls, and that logjams at points of entry could cause fruit and vegetable shortages in the spring.

[kirku 1,332]

9 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yes, one single deal was bigger than the sum total of your pathetic argument. Surprised to see you back on here gloating at your ignorance. Takes all sorts, I suppose.

You ignorant fool.

6bn of share trading per day left the City and you crowed about a 7bn IPO that doesn't exist..

For fans of facts, there were 23 UK IPOs in the whole of 2020 with a total value of under £9bn. RTB's "7bn IPO" is actually targeting a £500m market value and the largest FTSE IPO last year raised "just" £920m. 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by kirku

[Herman 9,754]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

Spot on! And Boris decided to ignore this advice too. Hence all the lies and the inevitability of a dreadful deal. Mind you, it has to be said that the DUP must be incredibly thick not to have worked out that they were being taken for mugs by Boris.

There's "a special place in hell" for the DUP and what they are doing to their community. I won't even blame Johnson for their actions anymore. They must have known what was coming.

[horsefly 4,297]

25 minutes ago, Herman said:

There's "a special place in hell" for the DUP and what they are doing to their community. I won't even blame Johnson for their actions anymore. They must have known what was coming.

Yep! They're in a real mess entirely of their own making. I expect their support to plummet. They backed the Tories on a hardline brexit that their own population clearly rejected, and now they are endangering the peace achieved by the GFA. Bye, bye DUP, you won't be missed.

Edited February 8, 2021 by horsefly

[horsefly 4,297]

31 minutes ago, kirku said:

You ignorant fool.

6bn of share trading per day left the City and you crowed about a 7bn IPO that doesn't exist..

For fans of facts, there were 23 UK IPOs in the whole of 2020 with a total value of under £9bn. RTB's "7bn IPO" is actually targeting a £500m market value and the largest FTSE IPO last year raised "just" £920m. 

 

He has never knowingly let a fact get in the way of spewing out hatred and lies. Fortunately his lies are so stupid that no-one is ever in doubt that they are just poorly disguised bile and bilge.

[horsefly 4,297]

10 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

As Roger Daltry famously points out, bands used to tour the continent before we joined the common market. We are back to that same situation. Only covid stopping you taking your guitar to Hamburg tomorrow, Herman.

Jesus! The level of ignorance here is breathtaking. Brexit doesn't mean a return to pre-1973 (as much as you would enjoy the racism and mysogyny that was prevalent then). What sort of idiot would suggest that "we are back to the same situation"? Well, we all know exactly what sort of idiot would say that, YOU!

Covid has nothing to do with the restrictions on UK performing artists, those are written into the Brexit deal you love so much. 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/e2-80-98they-screwed-up-e2-80-99-elton-john-demands-government-renegotiate-brexit-deal-for-musicians/ar-BB1dtJSd