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The Positive Brexit Thread

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16 minutes ago, Bill said:

it is not one of semantics

but goes to the core if brexit, that being the idea that the UK could enjoy the benefits of the Single Market without adhering to the rules

leaving means the loss of favourable terms, as will divergence

this is not some 'clause' in the deal. but a known fact from before the referendum

ie if I failed to turn up to a booking I lose the fee

No! I'm talking about the very specific clause in the agreement that allows to EU to respond with the imposition of tariffs if they can demonstrate that the UK has undermined the standards that provide a level playing field. Whether one would describe those as de facto self-imposed or a straight imposition from the EU does seem a semantic issue (although from a purely legal perspective they would be described as EU imposed)

Regarding the whole Brexit fiasco in general I would absolutely agree that this was self-imposed lunacy, and there was never any prospect that we could have access to the single market without meeting the same standards of its members. Further, free trade access to the SM without being a member of it was always going to result in onerous extra burdens regarding paperwork and checks etc.

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3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

No! I'm talking about the very specific clause in the agreement that allows to EU to respond with the imposition of tariffs if they can demonstrate that the UK has undermined the standards that provide a level playing field. Whether one would describe those as de facto self-imposed or a straight imposition from the EU does seem a semantic issue (although from a purely legal perspective they would be described as EU imposed)

Regarding the whole Brexit fiasco in general I would absolutely agree that this was self-imposed lunacy, and there was never any prospect that we could have access to the single market without meeting the same standards of its members. Further, free trade access to the SM without being a member of it was always going to result in onerous extra burdens regarding paperwork and checks etc.

any tariffs would be compensatory, rather than arbitary, based on some need to punish

and the full scale of the checks, delays and costs are now only beginning to be seen

what Johnson with his  'get it done' slogan did was fill the silly heads of the brexiters that there was a deal that fulfilled all the lies they were told - it just needed a jolly chap to sort it out

much as with all of 2020, which ended with him pretty much back tracking on all those lies and false promises ............. which will probably go down as the biggest surrender document of our time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55583244

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Some disruption was to be expected, we're a week in. This is the reason that negotiations and the deal shouldn't have taken so damn long. Everyone's just scrambling to understand the implications, sort out new processes etc. Hell, we're just reaching the end of the first 5 working days. 

Let's see where we are in a couple of months and hold the government to account if things aren't improving.

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That's funny I always thought Billy liar and Horsefly were the same people ! 

Now I find he's talking to himself and liking what he says !

Edited by SwindonCanary

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6 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Some disruption was to be expected, we're a week in. This is the reason that negotiations and the deal shouldn't have taken so damn long. Everyone's just scrambling to understand the implications, sort out new processes etc. Hell, we're just reaching the end of the first 5 working days. 

Let's see where we are in a couple of months and hold the government to account if things aren't improving.

I think covid will still be a factor in 2 months, unfortunately 

I think 6 months minimum to see where we are. Maybe longer 

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7 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

How long is "short term"

3 months? 18 months? 5 years? 20 years?

no body knows, but I don't think it will be as far as 20 years 

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2 hours ago, paul moy said:

Desperate or what ? 😂    The fact is that investment in the UK is at a massive high and will only increase thanks to  our newly growing dynamic economy after COVID, free of protectionist EU rules.  ATOS are investing OUTSIDE of the EU whereas the article is about INWARD investment in the UK.    See the difference ?    🤣

Get your facts right Moyo, the article said nothing about inward investment - it was only VC, it was only 1.3% increase on the previous year, the so called "unicorns" included fashion retailers, second hand car dealers and a recipe delivery company - not "technology" & DXC has a large UK (and European presence).

The figures are chicken feed, they are misrepresentative and do not prove what you and @Rock The Boat thought they did.

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1 hour ago, horsefly said:

But that was not Hannan's point. He wants a lowering of standards. Happy days if we ban live animal exports (more to do with Carrie than Boris I suspect)

... and we can ban import of cruel veal from France too......

... and we can ban EU countries using cheap labour to fish in our waters, which was mooted a while back

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40152-019-00133-6

Oh the irony to hear the EU squeal because we raise standards🤣

 

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3 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Get your facts right Moyo, the article said nothing about inward investment - it was only VC, it was only 1.3% increase on the previous year, the so called "unicorns" included fashion retailers, second hand car dealers and a recipe delivery company - not "technology" & DXC has a large UK (and European presence).

The figures are chicken feed, they are misrepresentative and do not prove what you and @Rock The Boat thought they did.

The UK is now a magnet for inward investment thanks to Brexit.   Remoaners hate being proved wrong.......😎

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12 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Some disruption was to be expected, we're a week in. This is the reason that negotiations and the deal shouldn't have taken so damn long. Everyone's just scrambling to understand the implications, sort out new processes etc. Hell, we're just reaching the end of the first 5 working days. 

Let's see where we are in a couple of months and hold the government to account if things aren't improving.

'-utter nonsense !

the implications of leaving the Single Market were well known before the referendum and were consistently pointed out since.................only to be met with the sheep like bleats of your sort

"project fear....baa baa "

these current delays and costs and not some 'teething problems' but major hindrances to frictionless trade, as was before

and they cannot simply be 'ironed out' as it appears you are suggesting, as the 200 million plus firms will exist and continue to cause a massive delay and cost

read up on what both fishermen in Cornwall and Scotland are already saying, about forms and various certifications

and given how goods movement is around half, due to a usual post holiday lull, what on earth is going to happen when it picks up ?

when fishermen have fish rotting they cannot export, chilled food held up at docks and other goods weighed down with documents

boarding up three quarters of turnstiles at CR is not about fans having to adjust - but a stupid idea that would cause massive delays

welcome to Brexit

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

'-utter nonsense !

the implications of leaving the Single Market were well known before the referendum and were consistently pointed out since.................only to be met with the sheep like bleats of your sort

"project fear....baa baa "

these current delays and costs and not some 'teething problems' but major hindrances to frictionless trade, as was before

and they cannot simply be 'ironed out' as it appears you are suggesting, as the 200 million plus firms will exist and continue to cause a massive delay and cost

read up on what both fishermen in Cornwall and Scotland are already saying, about forms and various certifications

and given how goods movement is around half, due to a usual post holiday lull, what on earth is going to happen when it picks up ?

when fishermen have fish rotting they cannot export, chilled food held up at docks and other goods weighed down with documents

boarding up three quarters of turnstiles at CR is not about fans having to adjust - but a stupid idea that would cause massive delays

welcome to Brexit

Any friction can be resolved and the only reason we have extra friction is because the EU has to spite us for leaving.  In time, the EU will realise that their intransigence is self-defeating as they export many times more to us than we do to them.

I see that the EU are already lowering their own standards with their proposed agreement with China........ nobody should be doing deals with Covid-creating China but I suppose the EU are indeed desperate after losing one of their biggest contributors.

 

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"Percy Pig has emerged as one of the first casualties of Brexit red tape, with Marks & Spencer warning that its famous pink sweets could be hit with new import taxes in Ireland."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/08/percy-pigs-in-ireland-hit-by-brexit-red-tape-as-m-and-s-warns-of-tariffs

the reality is that all this was known before, and no bleating about how it just needs to be bedded in, will change anything.

all that will change is the number if firms who find out just how costly these tariffs are, how many firms now find the cost of exporting to the EU makes it commercially unviable and how many folk see their jobs shift abroad

as pointed out, this not a slight hiccup but a daily stream of folk/companies who are now finding they have been sold down the river by the lies of Johnson, Rees-Mogg, IDS etc

for those who want a realistic view of the horrors ahead

"The first thing that is emerging is the extent to which some parts of industry have failed to fully appreciate what the deal means for future UK-EU relations and their cross-border supply chains. It was interesting this week, for example, to see the food and drink industry lobbies on both sides of the Channel protesting about the impact the “rules of origin” clauses in the TCA will have on their existing distribution networks."

https://www.ft.com/content/08f180aa-59a5-4a7b-bb4f-393af0f7a570

Edited by Bill

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56 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The UK is now a magnet for inward investment thanks to Brexit.   Remoaners hate being proved wrong.......😎

Inward investment has fallen by four fifths since the referendum

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47 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Any friction can be resolved and the only reason we have extra friction is because the EU has to spite us for leaving.  In time, the EU will realise that their intransigence is self-defeating as they export many times more to us than we do to them.

I see that the EU are already lowering their own standards with their proposed agreement with China........ nobody should be doing deals with Covid-creating China but I suppose the EU are indeed desperate after losing one of their biggest contributors.

 

Utterly naive and wrong. The friction is built into the need for checks and paper work that is a direct result of being two different markets and not a single market. There is NO way of resolving this. Get yourself a GCSE in economics.

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

The UK is now a magnet for inward investment thanks to Brexit.   Remoaners hate being proved wrong.......😎

Haha! seems you've invented a magnet that attracts fools-gold. Well done you!

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

That's funny I always thought Billy liar and Horsefly were the same people ! 

Now I find he's talking to himself and liking what he says !

You could at least try and get your grammar correct moron.

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4 hours ago, Herman said:

In other words, there will be no tangible benefits for the people that voted for brexit. 

No tangible benefits for Brexit voters at all. Number of supposedly key areas (Fishing, NI) have very real and immediate costs. For the rest of the nation it is more of a slow puncture as jobs and trade dependent on the SM & CU ebbs away.

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16 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You could at least try and get your grammar correct moron.

do stop replying to this cretin, so others do not have to see his racist gibberish

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Just now, Bill said:

do stop replying to this cretin, so others do not have to see his racist gibberish

I will if you stop responding to the paedophile supporting RTB

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4 minutes ago, Bill said:

do stop replying to this cretin, so others do not have to see his racist gibberish

You do realise you can block mentions of other people too.

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10 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You do realise you can block mentions of other people too.

I will to both 🙂

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3 hours ago, sonyc said:

One for the Brexiter complement here. Folk have explained the issues..... the Express may not cover these kinds of things.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fish-trade-uk-eu-lorries-exports-b1784312.html

 

I don't know, even the Express can't avoid the **** show the Brexiteers have delivered on fishing UK Fishing plea: Our trawlermen can survive for a few weeks but then it's over - COMMENT

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

do stop replying to this cretin, so others do not have to see his racist gibberish

try finding anything I wrote which is racist IBET YOU CAN'T 

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I wonder when the fisherman will appear in the Thames offering to take Farage and Johnson sea fishing. They'll need some live bait.

I noted months back that I'd of believed the Brexit nonsense when there was a boat scrappage scheme. Be needed soon.....

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Maybe the fisherman should travel en-mass to London and dump rotting fish on No10's doorstep. That would get the press and governments attention. You know the French would. A perfect metaphor, the industry that this "sovereignty" canard was "all about" showing that Brexit, like fish itself, rots from the head.

p.s the delusion of Brexit "wins" is somewhere on the spectrum of Monty Python's Black Knight and Trump's stolen election scam. But, I think most people believe such delusion must be closer to the former, I fear it may be closer to the latter, and very powerful people want the chaos of Brexit to continue in order to push through a lot of other changes in our county that would never otherwise have a chance to happen.

Edited by Surfer
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9 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Maybe the fisherman should travel en-mass to London and dump rotting fish on No10's doorstep. That would get the press and governments attention. You know the French would. A perfect metaphor, the industry that this "sovereignty" canard was "all about" showing that Brexit, like fish itself, rots from the head.

p.s the delusion of Brexit "wins" is somewhere on the spectrum of Monty Python's Black Knight and Trump's stolen election scam. But, I think most people believe such delusion must be closer to the former, I fear it may be closer to the latter, and very powerful people want the chaos of Brexit to continue in order to push through a lot of other changes in our county that would never otherwise have a chance to happen.

Don't disagree with that - the Black Knight - yes 'tis but scratch' sounds like Government already

"A government spokesman acknowledged that there had been "some issues". Its going to be a classic!

I suspect many a fisherman is rapidly realizing that the deal they had in the EU wasn't so bad afterall. At least they had a viable market!

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