The Positive Brexit Thread

[Daz Sparks 1,151]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

Fresh, from the catch of the day.

Is it a Boris fish?

[sonyc 5,510]

22 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

Filet O Fish still on the menu?

Haha...and my sausage comment was a very dark joke too.

Hope the filet o fish is protected, it's a family favourite 🙂

[Daz Sparks 1,151]

9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Haha...and my sausage comment was a very dark joke too.

Hope the filet o fish is protected, it's a family favourite 🙂

I'm partial to a F O F as well Sonyc.

[sonyc 5,510]

May has not held back today.

And she points out that Starmer will be supporting a worse deal. And whatever we think it's true.

And Johnson stabbed her in the back to go in to become PM and curry support from the ERG fruitcases. Nothing to do with what was best for the country.

Edited December 30, 2020 by sonyc

[Bill 1,788]

'sovereignty......... baa baa'

we can't make our laws....................when the UK Parliament is blocked from its requirement to discuss them with no time, or Parliament is closed, or that it has to go to court to allow debate

odd sovereignty that

[Surfer 1,547]

Quite. So here we are. We "took back control" and gave it to the executive branch... buried inside that 1,200 page bill they are "debating" in Parliament today, are powers for ministers to bypass Parliament on a whole range of issues. Well done the Tories, democracy was never your thing anyway.

[Bill 1,788]

the problem is that so many haven't the slightest clue about our democratic process, and so are happy to accept the removal of the necessary checks and balances if it delivers what they want

having the UK obliged to take the executive to court (twice) to re-instate that Parliament is sovereign speaks much about how far this country has slid

[Herman 9,754]

There's going to be loads of this popping up. Brexit and details have never got on together.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-deal-eu-energy-fishing-rights-take-back-control-812197

[sonyc 5,510]

A very sobre analysis indeed here by Crace. It's spot on.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/30/boris-johnson-brexit-vote-tories-bad-deal?

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The sight of that pompous Territorial Cook, Francois, parading around the chamber, giving thumbs up, as if what ever going to be close, made me want to scream. Idiot. He is a wannabe and doesn't realise that Lord Snooty Rees Mogg and company would drop him in a heartbeat.

[paul moy 235]

Nothing much on here today then.......😎

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Nothing much on here today then.......😎

We have all been busy repairing the windmills you keep tilting at

[Herman 9,754]

A tawdry end to a tawdry era.

[horsefly 4,297]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/only-17-of-britons-think-boris-johnson-s-fantastic-brexit-deal-is-good-for-country/ar-BB1clooy?ocid=msedgdhp

The public has delivered an overwhelming thumbs-down to the Brexit trade deal, just 17 per cent saying they think it will be “good” for the country.

Even among Leave voters, only 27 per cent told a survey that the deal was a success – and only one in three Conservative supporters said it was.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

All complaints to No. 10.

Johnson, the Tories and Brexiteers own it for eternity now. Yes don't laugh.

Caveat emptor.

[Well b back 3,200]

On 28/12/2020 at 11:48, paul moy said:

Ok, so it will depend much on what you are invested in, how broad your investment spectrum is, how risky those areas are, and whether in UK and overseas.  Now that the EU trade deal has been done and with the vaccinations occuring, the worst will soon be over. 

With optimism starting to return my view is the only way is up but we still have a while to go.   The pound is 1.35 to the dollar today and will only strengthen imo (I remember  it was around 1.20 not so long ago) so looking good for UK PLC and my eventual return to overseas travels. 

 

 

Didn’t go to well today, despite the approval of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine the board was covered in red.

Lets hope it was a drop due to the lockdown.

[Jools 584]

22 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Didn’t go to well today, despite the approval of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine the board was covered in red.

Lets hope it was a drop due to the lockdown.

Don’t ruin this thread please.

Thank you.

 

🖕

[Herman 9,754]

Worth a read by Jonathan Powell, a man that knows a bit about what he talks.

5 reasons the UK failed in Brexit talks

https://www.politico.eu/article/5-reasons-uk-failed-brexit-talks/

[sonyc 5,510]

18 minutes ago, Herman said:

Worth a read by Jonathan Powell, a man that knows a bit about what he talks.

5 reasons the UK failed in Brexit talks

https://www.politico.eu/article/5-reasons-uk-failed-brexit-talks/

That is succinctly put. He was on Newsnight a good few months ago and I'm fairly sure then he was exasperated at the government being found wanting on having a strategy (his 5th point). On this thread here many posters have also made points in all kinds of different ways about his 3rd point, putting sovereignty over economic interests. I think if the government had have developed the strategy in the first place then of course we would not have got to where we are. But then, there has been this ridiculous brinkmanship all along too, using the No Deal concept as a lever. Yet, it was 'empty' as a device, it never had any real power. Johnson had to get a deal and the EU knew it.

All so utterly depressing and dispiriting.

 

Edit: and reading that only 17% think the deal was okay is just incredible (and even Brexit voters think its rubbish)

Edited December 30, 2020 by sonyc

[Jools 584]

Glorious! 

Sir Wan Kier & Bunter getting their comeuppances 🤣 

[sonyc 5,510]

Interesting article yesterday and comment by Curtice on Scottish independence and polls

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18974979.john-curtice-snp-mp-gum-westminster-tories-agree-indyref2/

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

That is succinctly put. He was on Newsnight a good few months ago and I'm fairly sure then he was exasperated at the government being found wanting on having a strategy (his 5th point). On this thread here many posters have also made points in all kinds of different ways about his 3rd point, putting sovereignty over economic interests. I think if the government had have developed the strategy in the first place then of course we would not have got to where we are. But then, there has been this ridiculous brinkmanship all along too, using the No Deal concept as a lever. Yet, it was 'empty' as a device, it never had any real power. Johnson had to get a deal and the EU knew it.

All so utterly depressing and dispiriting.

 

Edit: and reading that only 17% think the deal was okay is just incredible (and even Brexit voters think its rubbish)

Powell’s point is more than just pitting sovereignty against the economy. He is drawing a crucial distinction between theoretical and practical sovereignty, or perhaps more accurately between sovereignty that is worth more than the absence of it and sovereignty that is actually counter-productive and self-harming.

One of the most disingenuous but superficially tempting arguments put forward by Leavers, including here, was that theoretical sovereignty was to be prized above all other considerations, even if it meant severe economic damage.

 

 

[sonyc 5,510]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Powell’s point is more than just pitting sovereignty against the economy. He is drawing a crucial distinction between theoretical and practical sovereignty, or perhaps more accurately between sovereignty that is worth more than the absence of it and sovereignty that is actually counter-productive and self-harming.

One of the most disingenuous but superficially tempting arguments put forward by Leavers, including here, was that theoretical sovereignty was to be prized above all other considerations, even if it meant severe economic damage.

 

 

You have described it better (as usual in your forensic way Purple) than my shorthand summary.

My sense of his third point is about the detail - the practical problems that will emerge and difficulties encountered in the real (day to day economic) world. All somehow 'traded' for a mythical sovereignty.

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

There is no such thing as theoretical sovereignty and practical sovereignty. There is sovereignty. Either you have it or you don't

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Worth a read by Jonathan Powell, a man that knows a bit about what he talks.

5 reasons the UK failed in Brexit talks

https://www.politico.eu/article/5-reasons-uk-failed-brexit-talks/

The only worthy point he makes is that negotiations were wrecked by Theresa May, whom he fails to mention, as she was actually a Remainer who attempted to keep us as close as possible to the EU. And nearly succeeded. 

[horsefly 4,297]

8 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Powell’s point is more than just pitting sovereignty against the economy. He is drawing a crucial distinction between theoretical and practical sovereignty, or perhaps more accurately between sovereignty that is worth more than the absence of it and sovereignty that is actually counter-productive and self-harming.

One of the most disingenuous but superficially tempting arguments put forward by Leavers, including here, was that theoretical sovereignty was to be prized above all other considerations, even if it meant severe economic damage.

 

 

Exactly! Johnson claims the regaining of "sovereignty" to be the great triumph of Brexit yet can't explain to any of us how that "sovereignty" has made any individual in this country more autonomous. Just like the Emperor in Andersen's tale, we have been fooled into buying an invisible "good" at a very high price.

[horsefly 4,297]

8 hours ago, Jools said:

Glorious! 

Sir Wan Kier & Bunter getting their comeuppances 🤣 

Haha! The only thing Gove has ever "scorched" is his nasal passages snorting coke

[Herman 9,754]

Jools is the Michael Gove of the Pink Un. And that is pretty damning.

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

5 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

 

 

That's well known to us manufacturers - CE for Europe but UKCA for us.

It means whole new label sets (assuming the regs stay otherwise much the same) but given our international markets we might just not bother with UK or simply add the extras costs (10K to 20K) onto the price for anybody who wants one. Backwater. CCC for China is more important going forward etc.

In truth it's all mindless costly symbolism as UK regs will have to be consistent with CE, FCC, CCC. Nobody is going to make a UK special that is wildly different from the same product for the ROW.