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The Positive Brexit Thread

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9 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Wrong end of the stick AGAIN !

FFS! you really are so very dumb! Incapable of spotting irony, and incapable of spotting BLATANT contradictions in your own posts. I'm not sure I've ever encountered someone so dim that they can't actually see how remarkably stupid they really are. So dumb indeed that they take pride in displaying it in public without even the remotest feeling of shame. 

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8 minutes ago, horsefly said:

FFS! you really are so very dumb! Incapable of spotting irony, and incapable of spotting BLATANT contradictions in your own posts. I'm not sure I've ever encountered someone so dim that they can't actually see how remarkably stupid they really are. So dumb indeed that they take pride in displaying it in public without even the remotest feeling of shame. 

tRUMP springs to mind.

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A man that regularly posts anonymous YouTube videos is worried about the safety of a named twitter link? OK. 

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7 minutes ago, SHRIMPER said:

tRUMP springs to mind.

Indeed! Perhaps Trump will employ him as Giuliani's replacement when the time comes (as it soon will)

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Farm animals antibiotics data raises post-Brexit trade fears (msn.com)

The overuse of antibiotics on farm animals is rife in some of the key countries with which the UK is hoping to strike a post-Brexit trade deal, a new report shows, raising fears that future deals will jeopardise public health and British farming.

The US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all allow farmers to feed antibiotics routinely to livestock to make them grow faster, and in the US and Canada farm antibiotic use is about five times the level in the UK, data compiled by the Alliance to Save Our Antibiotics shows.

Meat produced in this way is cheaper, because the animals grow faster and can be kept in overcrowded conditions. But the meat is soon to be banned in the EU, for safety and public health reasons.

Antibiotic use in cattle in the US is about seven times that in the UK, and in pigs twice as high, according to the report. In Australia, the use of antibiotics in poultry is more than 16 times higher than in the UK, and use in pigs about three times higher.

"Vote Brexsh*it for dangerous sh*it food from maltreated animals" They didn't put that on the side of a bus did they?

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11 hours ago, sonyc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/boris-johnson-deal-betrayal-brexiters-no-deal?

Toynbee is fairly definite about a deal ....but not one that will please Jools or Swindon....or harder line Brexiteers. The latter may have to hope Farage gets stuck in. Yet, too late but it could split the party more.

This article is so clear on why a deal has to be done given the complete mess that is Brexit to begin with.

@SwindonCanary ...this is worth a read in my opinion. I'm quite certain it's not likely to lead to the mythical sovereignty you think you voted for.

I read this yesterday, and would very much like Toynbee to be right about this, on the basis that it would be the least worst option from a lousy set of choices. However...

As  a logical explanation of what should happen it is fine, but logic was cast aside a long time ago, and I think she doesn't take enough account of intra-Tory party politics, or of what laughably might be called Johnson's 'character'.

What she is proposing is the softest possible Brexit, given that all the remaining possible Brexits are all to a greater or lesser extent damagingly hard. And so the Brexit of those possible in which the least amount of supposedly lost sovereignty is reclaimed.

I am not at all sure Johnson could sell that to his party, even if he wanted to. it is far from the clean break his shallow 'character' needs to be able to trumpet, bearing in mind that he could probably portrary the skinniest possible Brexit deal as close enough to a clean break, and of course he certainly could with a no-deal.

 

 

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I read this yesterday, and would very much like Toynbee to be right about this, on the basis that it would be the least worst option from a lousy set of choices. However...

As  a logical explanation of what should happen it is fine, but logic was cast aside a long time ago, and I think she doesn't take enough account of intra-Tory party politics, or of what laughably might be called Johnson's 'character'.

What she is proposing is the softest possible Brexit, given that all the remaining possible Brexits are all to a greater or lesser extent damagingly hard. And so the Brexit of those possible in which the least amount of supposedly lost sovereignty is reclaimed.

I am not at all sure Johnson could sell that to his party, even if he wanted to. it is far from the clean break his shallow 'character' needs to be able to trumpet, bearing in mind that he could probably portrary the skinniest possible Brexit deal as close enough to a clean break, and of course he certainly could with a no-deal.

There needs to be some sort of "deal", otherwise we end up with probably the worst arrangement any country has with its closest neighbour in the world, and I include North & South Korea in that. Whatever it is, it will be very painful economically for the UK and whether it happens in time for the 1st Jan is another matter. The UK might have to stew in its own juices for a couple of months before this stage plays out.

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5 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I read this yesterday, and would very much like Toynbee to be right about this, on the basis that it would be the least worst option from a lousy set of choices. However...

As  a logical explanation of what should happen it is fine, but logic was cast aside a long time ago, and I think she doesn't take enough account of intra-Tory party politics, or of what laughably might be called Johnson's 'character'.

What she is proposing is the softest possible Brexit, given that all the remaining possible Brexits are all to a greater or lesser extent damagingly hard. And so the Brexit of those possible in which the least amount of supposedly lost sovereignty is reclaimed.

I am not at all sure Johnson could sell that to his party, even if he wanted to. it is far from the clean break his shallow 'character' needs to be able to trumpet, bearing in mind that he could probably portrary the skinniest possible Brexit deal as close enough to a clean break, and of course he certainly could with a no-deal.

 

 

I read that your swing'o'meter had crept into 'no deal' territory recently but my sense is now the other way (having felt very much the same a week or two ago). I see the OECD has now weighed in with a bearish outlook scenario if Brexit collapses into no deal. My thinking is that surely NO country would countenance such an outcome (a view given by Toynbee). Nothing much shocks me with this present government but the stakes have never been as high. Not in my lifetime. The moves towards independence will accelerate in any event.

Surely, even Johnson will not cave into his cabal of headbangers (as Sue Perkins has called them!) just so he looks like he is a man of principle? You have to think that he has the true national interest at heart. Even more so, given his initial dalliance with being pro-Europe. Brinkmanship is one thing in trying to create the best negotiation positioning but to plough on will be the mark of madness.

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30 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I read that your swing'o'meter had crept into 'no deal' territory recently but my sense is now the other way (having felt very much the same a week or two ago). I see the OECD has now weighed in with a bearish outlook scenario if Brexit collapses into no deal. My thinking is that surely NO country would countenance such an outcome (a view given by Toynbee). Nothing much shocks me with this present government but the stakes have never been as high. Not in my lifetime. The moves towards independence will accelerate in any event.

Surely, even Johnson will not cave into his cabal of headbangers (as Sue Perkins has called them!) just so he looks like he is a man of principle? You have to think that he has the true national interest at heart. Even more so, given his initial dalliance with being pro-Europe. Brinkmanship is one thing in trying to create the best negotiation positioning but to plough on will be the mark of madness.

Its been so long,  I've forgotten...

If we strike a deal, doesn't it need to be ratified by UK parliament and EU27?

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

I read that your swing'o'meter had crept into 'no deal' territory recently but my sense is now the other way (having felt very much the same a week or two ago). I see the OECD has now weighed in with a bearish outlook scenario if Brexit collapses into no deal. My thinking is that surely NO country would countenance such an outcome (a view given by Toynbee). Nothing much shocks me with this present government but the stakes have never been as high. Not in my lifetime. The moves towards independence will accelerate in any event.

Surely, even Johnson will not cave into his cabal of headbangers (as Sue Perkins has called them!) just so he looks like he is a man of principle? You have to think that he has the true national interest at heart. Even more so, given his initial dalliance with being pro-Europe. Brinkmanship is one thing in trying to create the best negotiation positioning but to plough on will be the mark of madness.

You and BF are both right that there needs to be a deal, that there has to be a deal. It is inconceivable in a sane universe that there won't be one. And there is now the added problem for Johnson of a Biden presidency. If it would have been hard (which it would have been) to get a UK-US trade deal with Trump as president if there was what in crude terms might be called an anti-Irish No-Deal then Biden in the White House makes it harder still. Another reason for accepting some kind of deal.

But I still see the question of sovereignty as potentially insoluble. Certainly with Toynbee's as soft as possible version of a hard Brexit, which would leave the EU still in effective control of all sorts of aspects of UK life. I believe if it came to a choice between that Brexit and a No Deal then Johnson would go for the latter rather than accept what the ERG and not just the ERG would demonise as a Brexit in name only.

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It's time Boris to put his big boy pants on then and told Farage and the ERG to f*ck off!. He is the PM after all, Farage is all mouth and no trousers and the ERG is a vocal, but still small minority within the Conservative party. The session learned at a very early age with respect to bullies is you either stand up to them or they push you around. At no time will he EVER have a majority as large as this and he can tell them - vote against it, say what you want about it, but this is what my Government is doing..... (insert Churchillian sound bites here..... fulfilling mandate, leveling up, taking back control, protecting our sovereignty )..... one thing is certain, Farage and the ERG are going to vocally complain about it anyway, as no hard Brexit will ever be hard enough for them...history shows that extremists are never satisfied, there is always another purity test just around the corner that will consume the original supporters of that movement. 

Edited by Surfer

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13 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

THESE ARE SAFE SITES UNLIKE SOME YOUR POSTS

This is what YOU said dumbo!:

"Warning, don't go to links, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE it can take you anywhere !"

Your words not mine.

And regarding the claim that my links are unsafe, do point out which ones those are.

You continue to display your utter stupidity with these ridiculous contradictory comments.

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48 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

TOLD YOU IT'S SAFE 

FFS you said:

 "Warning, don't go to links, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY THEY ARE" 

Do you not understand your own words?

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Whether to laugh or cry at the Mail and Telegraph whining about British nationals losing their rights to live full time in the EU?? 

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Pfizer vaccine has been approved early thanks to Brexit..... rollout starts on Monday with health and care workers first in line for the jab.

EU has to wait due to their usual slow bureaucracy !!!

 

 

Edited by paul moy
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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Have you actually bothered to read it?

Hahaha! I think we know the answer to that. And it's pointless him reading it anyway because he doesn't understand a thing (least of all his own posts).

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24 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Pfizer vaccine has been approved early thanks to Brexit..... rollout starts on Monday with health and care workers first in line for the jab.

EU has to wait due to their usual slow bureaucracy !!!

 

 

We're the first country in the WORLD to roll it out. 

Not a Brexit thing.

More ill-informed nonsense from Paul Moy.

It's sad that you have to tarnish such good news with you petty stupidity.

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34 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Pfizer vaccine has been approved early thanks to Brexit..... rollout starts on Monday with health and care workers first in line for the jab.

EU has to wait due to their usual slow bureaucracy !!!

 

 

Sorry Mr Moy! Nothing to do with Brexit:

"The MHRA was given power to approve the vaccine by the government under special regulations before 1 January, when it will become fully responsible for medicines authorisation in the UK after Brexit."

Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine approved for use in UK to be rolled out next week (msn.com)

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29 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

We're the first country in the WORLD to roll it out. 

Not a Brexit thing.

More ill-informed nonsense from Paul Moy.

It's sad that you have to tarnish such good news with you petty stupidity.

It is a Brexit thing.  We do not have to wait for EU approval which we would have had to without Brexit and that was stated on BBC radio five live this morning.  

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26 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Sorry Mr Moy! Nothing to do with Brexit:

"The MHRA was given power to approve the vaccine by the government under special regulations before 1 January, when it will become fully responsible for medicines authorisation in the UK after Brexit."

Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine approved for use in UK to be rolled out next week (msn.com)

LOL... it is because we would have had to wait for EMHRA approval if we were still in the EU.    Comprendez ??

Due to EU bureaucracy other EU countries have to wait while the EU authority goes through its routines.   

Edited by paul moy

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