BigFish 1,986 Posted September 24, 2020 37 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: What's the alternative if there's a no deal ? On this you may be right Swindo, tremendous level of brinkmanship going on from Johnson/Cummings including the belief that it may be easier to negotiate a deal after the UK crashes out with no deal. So the EU has outsmarted the UK at every stage and continue in talks despite the UK's insults and provocations because they will not be the ones to crash a deal. Rumour is that if Johnson/Cummings surrenders on most of the difficult issues they will offer him a few crumbs, perhaps around fishing, and allow him to claim victory. They are the grown ups in the room after all. As this will be incredibly expensive and proportionally far more damaging to the UK than the EU I am a little uncertain of what the point is that you are trying to make. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) What I'm writing is that the one thing the EU want's is a 'no deal' as that means they will go WTO which is the last thing they want. Edited September 24, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: All you lot are saying what will happen if there's a no deal, give it a rest, there will be a deal. The EU are running scared of going WTO Terms because that would expose them to International Courts and Arbitrations. They don't like it. The US took them to WTO Arbitration and won. 99% of the time, anyone who takes the EU to the WTO Arbitration wins there's no way the EU will leave without a deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: What's the alternative if there's a no deal ? Oh dear! The EU has a very large number of free trade agreements in place (WTO rules will only apply to their trading with the UK). The UK will have to renegotiate all of these that follow in the chart below. But you can at least tick Japan off this list (0.07% of our GDP). Trade agreements in force[edit] State Signed Provisional Application In Force Notes Relations Akrotiri and Dhekelia 2003 2004[3] Customs union Albania 2006 2006[a] 2009[4] SAA Negotiating for EU accession Algeria 2002 2005[5] Euro-mediterranean AA Andorra 1990 1991[6] Customs union Andorra–EU relations Bosnia and Herzegovina 2008 2008[a] 2015[7] SAA Potential candidate for EU accession Chile 2002 2003 2005[8] AA[9] Egypt 2001 2004[10] Euro-mediterranean AA Faroe Islands 1996 1997[11] Autonomous entity of Denmark Faroe Islands-EU relations Georgia 2014 2014 2016[12] AA incl DCFTA Georgia–EU relations Bailiwick of Guernsey 1972 1973[13] Customs union Iceland 1992 1994[14] EEA Iceland–EU relations Isle of Man 1972 1973[13] Customs union Israel 1995 1996[a][15] 2000[16] Euro-Mediterranean AA Israel–EU relations Japan 2018[17] 2019[18] Economic Partnership Agreement [19] Japan-EU relations Bailiwick of Jersey 1972 1973[13] Customs union Jordan 1997 2002[20] Euro-Mediterranean AA Jordan–EU relations Kosovo 2015 2016[21] SAA Potential candidate for EU accession Lebanon 2002 2006[22] Euro-Mediterranean AA Lebanon–EU relations Liechtenstein 1992 1995[14] EEA Liechtenstein–EU relations Mexico 1997 2000[23] FTA[24][25] Mexico–EU relations Moldova 2014 2014 2016[26] AA incl DCFTA Moldova–EU relations Monaco 1958 Franco-Monegasque Treaty (customs union) Montenegro 2007 2008[a] 2010[27] SAA Negotiating for EU accession Morocco 1996 2000[28] Euro-Mediterranean AA Morocco–EU relations North Macedonia 2001 2001[a] 2004[29] SAA Negotiating for EU accession Norway 1992 1994[14] EEA Norway–EU relations EU's Overseas Countries and Territories 2001 2001[30][31] Association of the OCTs with the EU Palestinian Authority 1997 1997[32] Euro-Mediterranean AA Palestine–EU relations San Marino 1991 1992 2002[33] Customs union San Marino–EU relations Serbia 2008 2010[a] 2013[34] SAA Negotiating for EU accession Singapore 2018[35] 2019[36] FTA[37] South Africa 1999 2000[38] 2004[39] ATDC[c] South Africa–EU relations South Korea 2010 2011 2015[40] FTA[41] South Korea–EU relations Switzerland 1972 1973[42] Trade agreement Switzerland–EU relations Tunisia 1995 1998[43] Euro-Mediterranean AA Turkey 1995[d] 1995[44] Customs union EU–Turkey relations United Kingdom 2020[45] 2020 Transitional arrangement until 31 December 2020 UK–EU relations Ukraine 2014 2016 2017[46][47] AA incl DCFTA Ukraine–EU relations Vietnam 2019 2020[48] Free Trade Agreement[49] Vietnam–European Union relations Agreements provisionally applied[edit] Signed ProvisionalApplication Ratification Notes Relations CARIFORUM States 2008 2008 35 / 44 [50] EPA - Croatia acceded to the agreement on 28 November 2017 Eastern and Southern Africa States Comoros Madagascar Mauritius Seychelles Zambia[51] Zimbabwe 2009 2012, 2019 5 / 35 [52] Interim Agreement for establishing a framework for an EPA Central America Costa Rica Guatemala Honduras Nicaragua Panama El Salvador 2012 2013 32 / 34 [53] AA Côte d'Ivoire 2009 2016 22 / 30 [54] Stepping Stone EPA Colombia Peru 2012[55] 2013 28 / 30 [56] FTA[57] Cameroon 2009 2014 21 / 30 [58] Interim agreement with a view to an EPA Pacific States Fiji Papua New Guinea Samoa Solomon Islands 2009 2009, 2014, 2018, 2020 4 / 5 [59] Interim Partnership Agreement South African Development Community members Botswana Lesotho Mozambique Namibia South Africa Swaziland 2016 2016 16 / 35 [60] Economic Partnership Agreement Ghana 2016 2016[61] 7 / 30 [61] Stepping Stone EPA Ecuador 2016[62] 2017[63] 26 / 32 [64] Accession to EU-Peru-Colombia Free Trade Agreement[65] Canada 2016 2017[66] 15 / 30 [67] Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement[68] Agreements signed (awaiting application)[edit] Agreements finalised (negotiations concluded, but not signed)[edit] Negotiations Concluded Signed ProvisionalApplication Ratification Notes West Africa Benin Burkina Faso Cabo Verde Côte d'Ivoire Gambia Ghana Guinea Guinea-Bissau Liberia Mali Mauritania Niger Nigeria Senegal Sierra Leone Togo 6 February 2014 Signed by 15 out of 16 West African partner countries and the EU[69] Economic Partnership Agreement[70][71] Eastern African Community members Burundi Kenya Rwanda Tanzania Uganda 16 October 2014 Signed by 2 out of 5 East African partner countries and the EU[72] Ratified by Rwanda and Kenya Economic Partnership Agreement[73] Mercosur Argentina Brazil Paraguay Uruguay 28 June 2019[74] No European Union–Mercosur Free Trade Agreement. Part of an Association Agreement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements#:~:text=The European Union negotiates free trade deals on,has an "exclusive competence" to conclude trade agreements. Good luck you Brexsh*t buffoons! Edited September 24, 2020 by horsefly added link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) NOTHING AS BIG A THE DEAL THEY WILL HAVE WITH THE UK Mr Horsesh1t Edited September 24, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,317 Posted September 24, 2020 The Daily Mash has just published a fun new questionnaire to determine what kind of voter you may be, give it a try. 🤣 Are you too thick to vote? BRITAIN’S current crisis is the result of voters failing to understand important issues, experts claim. So are you one of Britain’s thick-as-pigsh*t voters? Find out: Who is the chancellor of the exchequer? A) Rishi Sunak. B) Money Saving Expert’s Martin Lewis. If Anna gives Becky three apples, and Charles gives Becky four apples but she gives one back to Anna, how many apples does Becky have? A) Six apples. B) Why’s Charles giving Becky apples? I’m sick of this handout culture where lazy b*stards expect everything for free. Becky is everything that’s wrong with Britain. Name three of William Shakespeare’s plays. A) Hamlet. Romeo and Juliet. A Midsummer Night’s Dream. B) I don’t like made-up stuff. I can’t believe in it. I only watch true crime. What is the EU? A) An international trade organisation based in Europe. B) A dictatorship completely dependent on our money which controls every aspect of our lives and which will collapse without us. Believe me, it’s their head on the chopping block. What percentage of the British population is white? A) 86 per cent. B) Less than 30 per cent and getting lower. Because they breed faster. You know who I mean. We’re the minority now. Which famous event began in 1939? A) World War Two. B) Coronation Street. ANSWERS Mostly As: You are reasonably well-informed. Expect your vote to be instantly cancelled out by some idiot who thinks cats miaowing is an actual language. Mostly Bs: For the good of democracy, don’t vote. Or do some bloody research, but you won’t do that because Google is so hard to use, except when you want a pizza or a w*nk. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: What I'm writing is that the one thing the EU want's is a 'no deal' as that means they will go WTO which is the last thing they want. Why would that be? WTO with the UK does not automatically mean WTO with the rest of the world. BTW this is the “Positive Brexit” thread. Where is the positive news? All I see is a failure to get anything done, and whining about who’s fault that is - does the government not have a plan? If there is a plan can they tell us what it is and show what has been done so far to execute it? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: What I'm writing* is that the one thing the EU want's is a 'no deal' as that means they will go WTO which is the last thing they want. *smashing face repeatedly into keyboard then pressing 'submit reply' 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: NOTHING AS BIG A THE DEAL THEY WILL HAVE WITH THE UK Mr Horsesh1t I think NFN NC is spot on, you really must be: "smashing face repeatedly into keyboard then pressing 'submit reply' " You really must try giving that old motto, "Think before you speak" a go. You don't even have to do both at the same time, which would clearly be beyond your capacity. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) Ah, I think I have rumbled Dom's cunning plan. We are going to use the military to ship critical goods to the EU through our bases in Cyprus. That'll show 'em. " Rule Britannia!, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never, never, never shall be slaves" The nations not so blest as theeMust, in their turn, to tyrants fall,While thou shalt flourish great and free:The dread and envy of them all. Forget about Berlin, the Akrotiri Airlift and Dhekelia Depot will be even more famous. Edited September 24, 2020 by Surfer 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 24, 2020 3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: What I'm writing is that the one thing the EU want's is a 'no deal' as that means they will go WTO which is the last thing they want. We all know that Brexsh*teers end up contradicting themselves at some point in their rantings, but to manage it within the confines of a single sentence takes real dedication to stupidity and linguistic incompetence. Bravo! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 You are all having a go at me but just watch the EU cave in, THEY WILL DO IT ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 24, 2020 4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: What I'm writing is that the one thing the EU want's is a 'no deal' as that means they will go WTO which is the last thing they want. Let's be factual about this. The UK, EU and all 27 members of the EU are members of the WTO. "No Deal" therefore means defaulting to "WTO rules". WTO rules arn't actually enforcable but do give a framework under International Law for trade sanctions. WTO rules arn't particularly useful either, no countries that are members trade under WTO rules alone, rather they tend to have numerous other treaties in addition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: You are all having a go at me but just watch the EU cave in, THEY WILL DO IT ! Johnson will say they have caved in, and you will believe it. Meanwhile in the real world the EU will have got everything they want from a difficult situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 Guaranty we don't give in to a level playing field or any of the other things the EU have come up with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted September 24, 2020 A level playing field is the desired outcome of any negotiation you idiot. If it’s not level, you don’t sign until you find ways to compensate for the advantage one party has over the other... I am almost ready to give up arguing, but I know it’s what you want us to do..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 idiot not, A level playing field means we will be under the EU's laws That is not gonna happen . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,749 Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) I bet Honda were pleased they made the decision to leave Swindon. Edited September 24, 2020 by Yellow Fever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said: I bet Honda were pleased they made the decision to leave Swindon. Take it home, that's always best Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dj11 377 Posted September 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Surfer said: A level playing field is the desired outcome of any negotiation you idiot. If it’s not level, you don’t sign until you find ways to compensate for the advantage one party has over the other... I am almost ready to give up arguing, but I know it’s what you want us to do..... I blocked him months ago, I can’t believe you persist. Flogging and dead horse spring to mind. Just move on, nothing to see here. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 25, 2020 7 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: Guaranty we don't give in to a level playing field or any of the other things the EU have come up with. I guarantee they all know how to use a spell checker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 25, 2020 From the Financial Times:France has dismissed this week’s dire British warnings about post-Brexit transport delays across the Channel as tactical posturing and warned that the EU would not yield to “intimidation” to reach an agreement on the future relationship between the two sides. “Of course the signals that have been sent in the past few days are damaging,” said France’s Europe minister Clément Beaune, portraying as a likely deal-breaker the draft UK law undermining key parts of the Brexit withdrawal agreement signed by Boris Johnson in January. “Anything which disrupts, disturbs or increases tensions in the negotiations is regrettable and we won’t fall for a kind of intimidation at the European level,” Mr Beaune, a confidant of President Emmanuel Macron and co-architect of his Europe policy, told the Financial Times. Asked about statements from Michael Gove, the UK cabinet minister responsible for Brexit implementation, about access permits for international lorries to enter the county of Kent and the likelihood of queues of up to 7,000 vehicles waiting to cross the Channel, Mr Beaune said he saw them as a way of putting pressure on the Europeans. “It won’t work,” he said. “So let’s not waste time with these unfortunate tactical games and let’s negotiate fairly.” French officials and executives who do business with the UK are aghast at the British government’s attempt to rewrite an international treaty signed less than a year ago after fraught negotiations. They are also baffled by the UK’s apparent lack of technical preparation for new customs arrangements that will apply from January 1, whether or not there is an outline agreement on the future relationship. Mr Beaune said France and the EU were keen to reach a deal, but he reiterated that it would not be possible to grant the UK broad access to the EU market unless it agreed to respect the bloc’s health and environmental rules and restrictions on state aid for companies so as to ensure a “level playing field”. Doesn't quite sound like they're ready to cave in SwindleCanary (Do reveal your source that says otherwise). And would you like to tell us why it is in the interests of the UK population to accept lower standards for health and environmental rules? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) I don't know if there will be a trade deal or not. No-one does. But at the moment I think not is just more likely. This is not a government but a one-eyed Make Brexit Happen cabal, led by a man whose whole political career has been based on symbols and legends and lies rather than facts and truth and consequences. With his chief adviser a destructivist (not that he paints himself as such) who wants to raze everything to the ground without a plan - or probably a care - as how to rebuild. That points to a great symbolic clean break and damn the consequences. The Lemming Brexit. And this could happen deliberately, or by accident if Johnson thinks the EU is going to blink. For there to be a deal Johnson and his idiot cabal and Cummings have to change the habits and attitudes of a lifetime in the next few weeks. Edited September 25, 2020 by PurpleCanary 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 25, 2020 from the labour leader himself DESPITE BRUSSELS stating time and again the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be reopened to changes, the European Union has proposed its own amendments to the treaty – showing its true colours. The EU will not stop trying to claw back control of the United Kingdom. By utilising the Withdrawal Agreement, it can wait out this pro-Brexit Government until a more compliant one takes office, potentially with a Prime Minister who would gladly sign away our independence at the flick of a pen. There is an operational function written into the Withdrawal Agreement which enables either side to propose amendments to the Treaty which the EU has already utilised extensively. It has recently initiated proceedings through the EU-UK Joint Committee, with Brussels proposing amendments to the Agreement. These are on issues such as the UK’s financial contribution for exiting the bloc (otherwise known as the ‘divorce payments’), social security provisions for EU citizens living in the UK and changes to the Northern Ireland Protocol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,749 Posted September 25, 2020 13 hours ago, SwindonCanary said: Take it home, that's always best I wonder what BMW are thinking then. Following your advice ? You better hope not! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: I wonder what BMW are thinking then. Following your advice ? You better hope not! BMW are throwing money at the British plants, even during the talks, they seem to have no doubt there will be a deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: from the labour leader himself DESPITE BRUSSELS stating time and again the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be reopened to changes, the European Union has proposed its own amendments to the treaty – showing its true colours. The EU will not stop trying to claw back control of the United Kingdom. By utilising the Withdrawal Agreement, it can wait out this pro-Brexit Government until a more compliant one takes office, potentially with a Prime Minister who would gladly sign away our independence at the flick of a pen. There is an operational function written into the Withdrawal Agreement which enables either side to propose amendments to the Treaty which the EU has already utilised extensively. It has recently initiated proceedings through the EU-UK Joint Committee, with Brussels proposing amendments to the Agreement. These are on issues such as the UK’s financial contribution for exiting the bloc (otherwise known as the ‘divorce payments’), social security provisions for EU citizens living in the UK and changes to the Northern Ireland Protocol. This is not from the labour leader ****-for-brains. You need to cite the real website from which you cut and paste this, otherwise you are committing plagiarism. I'll do it for you again: https://getbritainout.org/how-the-withdrawal-agreement-could-pull-us-back-into-the-eu/ You, and the idiots who originally posted this really are Brexsh*t buffoons in chief. You say: "DESPITE BRUSSELS stating time and again the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be reopened to changes, the European Union has proposed its own amendments to the treaty" Then you say: "There is an operational function written into the Withdrawal Agreement which enables either side to propose amendments to the Treaty" Duh!!! ffs can't even you (with your admittedly limited intellectual capacities) see that the second statement completely negates the first. Under the WA each side is able to propose amendments. But that's not what Johnson is doing DFB, he's proposing to break the agreement altogether and thereby break international law. Do at least try to understand the difference. All you do with each of the posts you submit is confirm to all of us that Brexiteers really are as dumb as we thought Edited September 25, 2020 by horsefly missing words Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 25, 2020 Where did he get the from the labour leader from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Herman said: Where did he get the from the labour leader from? F**k Knows. Certainly not claimed in the originally loony rant. Only someone seriously lacking basic cognitive ability could think Starmer would say this. The man needs some remedial help. Edited September 25, 2020 by horsefly missing words Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
