PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted September 15, 2020 16 hours ago, Jools said: Below we present key excerpts from the report “As can be seen, the key elements of the Withdrawal Agreement including the Northern Ireland Protocol are incompatible with UK sovereignty if continued into the future and should operate merely as a steppingstone to an end of year long-term relationship between the UK and the EU. “The EU has seriously breached the agreement, even as it stands, since it has been structurally unable to engage in meaningful negotiations (for what is now the majority of the intended negotiation period) towards a sovereign outcome for the UK. Removing all the flummery from yet another mad pro-Brexit screed that Jools doesn't understand and so can't defend (a supermarket trolley could probably do better), this above is the key 'legal' argument; and of course it is nonsense. The claim that the EU hasn't properly negiotiated can be correctly translated as a whiny complaint that the EU hasn't rolled over and allowed a weak or even non-existent border between the single market and a non-single market country. In broader terms it is yet another attempt by Brexiters to blame the EU for not being willing to cave in to make true all those cake and eat it lies that persuaded people to commit this massive piece of economic self-harm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 We'll always be on the right side Jools. Clean conscience and the knowledge that we haven't allowed ourselves be conned. Still more fighting to do but it will soon be a country not worth fighting for if you get more of your way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 15, 2020 The only way to sort this problem of a hard border on the island of Ireland (or a border on the Irish Sea) is a FTA and the only way for that is to give up on some the fishing rights. Is there another solution? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 Well 340 ****weasels voted to break international law because they don't like compromise, even though it's the compromise they signed up for a few months ago. The only solution now is to fall out with nothing and hope the utter chaos wakes up the idiots that keep supporting this dreadful government. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 15, 2020 8 hours ago, Jools said: Herman and all you other loser, Lefty Remainiacs --- You lost the referendum -- You lost the 2017 election -- You lost the EU parliament elections and you lost the 2019 election --- You lost the red passports, you lost your freedom of movement, you have lost our fish, you lost the argument, you lost the voters but most recently you have lost your minds perusing this for so long... Please, for the love of whatever you believe in --- STFU 👍 Your pathetic posts, lacking in any attempt to provide actual argument deserve nothing but derision Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 15, 2020 50 minutes ago, Herman said: Well 340 ****weasels voted to break international law because they don't like compromise, even though it's the compromise they signed up for a few months ago. The only solution now is to fall out with nothing and hope the utter chaos wakes up the idiots that keep supporting this dreadful government. And we'd still be left with a hard border on Ireland 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, NFN FC said: And we'd still be left with a hard border on Ireland Aye, it's pretty obvious there will have to be a hard border due to there being two differing standards set. But as we have found out from these years of this ****show, the brexiters will never accept that this is because of their decision, and the fact they never deal in detail, so it will be someone else's fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Herman said: Aye, it's pretty obvious there will have to be a hard border due to there being two differing standards set. But as we have found out from these years of this ****show, the brexiters will never accept that this is because of their decision, and the fact they never deal in detail, so it will be someone else's fault. I hope that hard border is the Irish Sea. That'd **** all over their idea of reclaiming our sovereignty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 15, 2020 2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said: Removing all the flummery from yet another mad pro-Brexit screed that Jools doesn't understand and so can't defend (a supermarket trolley could probably do better), this above is the key 'legal' argument; and of course it is nonsense. The claim that the EU hasn't properly negiotiated can be correctly translated as a whiny complaint that the EU hasn't rolled over and allowed a weak or even non-existent border between the single market and a non-single market country. In broader terms it is yet another attempt by Brexiters to blame the EU for not being willing to cave in to make true all those cake and eat it lies that persuaded people to commit this massive piece of economic self-harm. Absolutely! The giveaway is the phrase " [the EU] is structurally unable to engage in meaningful negotiations ". Utterly meaningless, hence not even the idiots populating our Government have tried to claim this. But of course the idiots populating the Brexit party are even more idiotic than them, so no surprise that their representative on this site (fools) should repeat it like some moronic parrot that has bashed it's head against the mirror a little too hard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159 Posted September 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Herman said: Aye, it's pretty obvious there will have to be a hard border due to there being two differing standards set. But as we have found out from these years of this ****show, the brexiters will never accept that this is because of their decision, and the fact they never deal in detail, so it will be someone else's fault. If the Brexiteers really wanted to negotiate they would have done it during the last two years. Instead they blundered, are mis prepared for what is to happen and are whining into their empty tea cups that they could not get their empirical ways, over and above every other EU nation in the club. This 'ueber alles' feeling, combined with the BBC Goebbeling their every thought and actions, their zest of a fly swatting for Russia and China, their Angstful eagerness to remove a few migrants crossing from France, and the threats leveled at climate protesters by an ugly not so priti Patel, are evidence that we want to be bigger than a dwarf in wellies and that we are not ever telling the truth to the public. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted September 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Herman said: We'll always be on the right side Jools 😀 Clean conscience and the knowledge that we haven't allowed ourselves be conned 🤪 Still more fighting to do but it will soon be a country not worth fighting for if you get more of your way A country not worth fighting for, Herminge? You're having a laugh aren't ya? Whilst one supports/defends political movements such as Antifa/BLM, Extinction Rebellion and the EU machine that the majority are realising IS a hostile foreign power -(They're threatening to annex part of the UK,ffs)- how on Earth can you say you care about this country? You're also pro mass uncontrolled immigration whilst being anti-capitalist -- Pray tell us how the country pays to accommodate the former via the repeatedly failed political ideology that is Socialism? Pray tell us how uncontrolled mass immigration, hence huge increases in infrastructure over our green and pleasant land adheres to your green credentials? etc...etc... The Lefty ideologies you believe in are far from progressive, they're positively repressive and would send this country back to the dark ages. A country not worth fighting for? Yes, it is and that's what the winning Right majority have been doing and will continue to do 😎 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 After all these years you still actually know nothing about what I believe, and just parrot far right nonsense that you've read off of dodgy websites. You've put me in groups that, although I have sympathy for some, I have never been associated with or been a supporter of. You can't even be bothered to address me with my non real name. If I ever respond to your bilge from now on it's probably because I am drunk. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Jools said: A country not worth fighting for, Herminge? You're having a laugh aren't ya? Whilst one supports/defends political movements such as Antifa/BLM, Extinction Rebellion and the EU machine that the majority are realising IS a hostile foreign power -(They're threatening to annex part of the UK,ffs)- how on Earth can you say you care about this country? You're also pro mass uncontrolled immigration whilst being anti-capitalist -- Pray tell us how the country pays to accommodate the former via the repeatedly failed political ideology that is Socialism? Pray tell us how uncontrolled mass immigration, hence huge increases in infrastructure over our green and pleasant land adheres to your green credentials? etc...etc... The Lefty ideologies you believe in are far from progressive, they're positively repressive and would send this country back to the dark ages. A country not worth fighting for? Yes, it is and that's what the winning Right majority have been doing and will continue to do 😎 Fools by name fool by nature. The threat to the UK comes precisely from the consequences of Brexit. Scotland will now almost certainly vote for independence and Johnson's (sorry! Dominic's) outrageous breach of international law will give massive moral and political support to the call for that vote to happen soon. And I suspect that Northern Ireland will soon begin to see that their future will look very much brighter in a united Ireland than as a part of a law breaking impoverished UK. Recent polls and votes in NI show that they are increasingly loosing themselves from the rabid ideology of the right and seeking a progressive future. So, Fools by all means wrap yourself in the Union flag and sing Land of Hope and Glory to your hearts content, but as that flag begins to lose some of its crosses just remember that it is your lot "wot did it" Edited September 15, 2020 by horsefly 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 15, 2020 33 minutes ago, Jools said: ... the EU machine that the majority are realising IS a hostile foreign power Surely not, I was assured by BrexitFacts4U that the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU. This sovereignity stuff is a bit of a ****, isn't it @Jools? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) Ahh! dear old Fools, I see you're not capable of a rational written response. Fair enough I can see you find words hard to cope with Edited September 15, 2020 by horsefly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,135 Posted September 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Herman said: After all these years you still actually know nothing about what I believe, and just parrot far right nonsense that you've read off of dodgy websites. You've put me in groups that, although I have sympathy for some, I have never been associated with or been a supporter of. You can't even be bothered to address me with my non real name. If I ever respond to your bilge from now on it's probably because I am drunk. 😀 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted September 15, 2020 More EU threats --- Brussels has warned farmers, businesses and animal welfare campaigners that it may be forced to ban all British exports of live animals and animal products such as cheese, beef, eggs, chicken and lamb from January 1. Well done, Barnier, the world is watching and listening 😎 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182 Posted September 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jools said: More EU threats --- Brussels has warned farmers, businesses and animal welfare campaigners that it may be forced to ban all British exports of live animals and animal products such as cheese, beef, eggs, chicken and lamb from January 1. Well done, Barnier, the world is watching and listening 😎 Project Fear 🤗 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 15, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqlIWhB8S1A&ab_channel=RottenPolitics Pay attention ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqlIWhB8S1A&ab_channel=RottenPolitics Pay attention ! High quality stuff again Swindo! Thanks for sharing! *please note this is sarcasm and it is hurting my heart 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 A summary of Boris Johnson's Britain. Ebbsfleet covid testing site will be shut to make way for a brexit lorry park. I'm sure it was once a gateway to Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 15, 2020 27 minutes ago, Herman said: A summary of Boris Johnson's Britain. Ebbsfleet covid testing site will be shut to make way for a brexit lorry park. I'm sure it was once a gateway to Europe. Covid is an immigrant so we don't care about it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Herman said: A summary of Boris Johnson's Britain. Ebbsfleet covid testing site will be shut to make way for a brexit lorry park. I'm sure it was once a gateway to Europe. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-54158100 And right at the bottom of the non-news article you've garnered from the BBC it reads: 'A new coronavirus testing centre has opened in Rochester.' 🙃 Rochester is less than eight miles away from Ebbsfleet, yet the following within the same article: 'An increase in demand for coronavirus tests has led to local shortages - with some people being directed to test sites hundreds of miles from their homes.' 😷 Edited September 15, 2020 by Jools Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 15, 2020 43 minutes ago, Jools said: More EU threats --- Brussels has warned farmers, businesses and animal welfare campaigners that it may be forced to ban all British exports of live animals and animal products such as cheese, beef, eggs, chicken and lamb from January 1. Well done, Barnier, the world is watching and listening 😎 If I was being charitable I would treat your post as a sublime piece of irony, but of course it isn't. Let's put it in terms you might actually understand. Imagine the UK was considering entering a trade deal with a country called X. Now imagine that X says it wants to sell us beef but says that the beef they intend to sell us is reared in cages, is pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, and is tended by workers who have no rights to minimum pay or to any health and safety standards, indeed several of their workers die each year. Country X says we must accept their beef raised this way because it enables them to undercut the prices charged by UK farmers. Would you accept their beef? obviously not. The point of this example is a very simple one, but fundamentally crucial. By leaving the single market we have made achieving a free trade deal completely dependent on convincing the EU that our standards of production and services at the very least match those expected of all other members of the EU single market. That's called a level playing field. To expect the EU to accept anything less would be absurd and a sign of incurable stupidity. That of course raises the possibility that they could indeed ban products that don't meet these standards if a deal is not reached. Of course at the moment we do meet these standards, precisely because we were members of the single market and at the moment are in the transition period. Achieving a free trade deal thus rests fundamentally on convincing the EU that we will continue to meet these standards when the transition period ceases. Such a deal would require cast iron guarantees that the playing field remains level. Thus it is that the parties concerned normally enshrine such agreements in a treaty protected by international law. So what a fantastic negotiating manoeuvre by the government to introduce a bill that would involve the UK in threatening to break international law. Add to that the egregious record of lying that Boris Johnson has so copiously collected throughout his career and it should be no surprise to anyone that the EU are determined to protect the integrity of the single market. And yes that has to include the threat of banning UK goods if that is what is required, just as we would ban beef from country X 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, horsefly said: If I was being charitable I would treat your post as a sublime piece of irony, but of course it isn't. Let's put it in terms you might actually understand. Imagine the UK was considering entering a trade deal with a country called X. Now imagine that X says it wants to sell us beef but says that the beef they intend to sell us is reared in cages, is pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, and is tended by workers who have no rights to minimum pay or to any health and safety standards, indeed several of their workers die each year. Country X says we must accept their beef raised this way because it enables them to undercut the prices charged by UK farmers. Would you accept their beef? obviously not. The point of this example is a very simple one, but fundamentally crucial. By leaving the single market we have made achieving a free trade deal completely dependent on convincing the EU that our standards of production and services at the very least match those expected of all other members of the EU single market. That's called a level playing field. To expect the EU to accept anything less would be absurd and a sign of incurable stupidity. That of course raises the possibility that they could indeed ban products that don't meet these standards if a deal is not reached. Of course at the moment we do meet these standards, precisely because we were members of the single market and at the moment are in the transition period. Achieving a free trade deal thus rests fundamentally on convincing the EU that we will continue to meet these standards when the transition period ceases. Such a deal would require cast iron guarantees that the playing field remains level. Thus it is that the parties concerned normally enshrine such agreements in a treaty protected by international law. So what a fantastic negotiating manoeuvre by the government to introduce a bill that would involve the UK in threatening to break international law. Add to that the egregious record of lying that Boris Johnson has so copiously collected throughout his career and it should be no surprise to anyone that the EU are determined to protect the integrity of the single market. And yes that has to include the threat of banning UK goods if that is what is required, just as we would ban beef from country X T Exactly right. There is a basic truth about Brexit which anti-EU campaigners either didn't understand or understood well enough but lied about until they were red, white and blue in the face. Namely that the single market is the most important part of the EU, and nothing will be done to threaten its integrity. So maintaining trade between the 27 remaining countries is vastly more important than a caving-in trade deal with a third country that might provide an argument for other -exits. As David McAllister, Scottish-born former prime minister of Lower Saxony said four years ago: “In the whole 45 years the UK has been in the EU it has never understood it. And only now, in leaving, will it have to.'' Edited September 15, 2020 by PurpleCanary 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horsefly 4,287 Posted September 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: Hahaha!! A tremendous spoof by a pasty faced buffoon, uhm! at least I hope it's a spoof. Don't think this guy is going to trouble the scorers much if he takes an IQ test. Not a single word of truth to be found here. Perhaps mum hasn't brought his crisps and tea up to his bedroom on time 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 British exceptionalism comes up against reality. All in a whiny video hosted by some fat ginger oaf on YouTube. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted September 15, 2020 So currently where do the honest posters think we are going to end up? A) Crash out with no deal but with the blame being pushed on to the EU? B) Get some terrible deal at the last minute and claim it to be a British blitz spirit win? After last night I think A has moved ahead in the liklihood stakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted September 15, 2020 A but with a dash of B in the form of some sort of victory parade. BoJo makes some sort of National Holiday out of the whole thing and all the RWNJs bow down to their new supreme leader. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites