The Positive Brexit Thread

[Bill 1,788]

11 minutes ago, Herman said:

11 minutes ago, Herman said:

An interesting read if you have a spare few minutes.

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2020/06/22/swimming-with-the-sharks-what-progressives-can-learn-from-re

 

Nothing new there - goes way back, as with the message

''sell the sizzle - not the sausage''

The question here is how much RAT are following the trend, or setting it.

I would suggest, very much the former

[Barbe bleu 814]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

An interesting read if you have a spare few minutes.

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2020/06/22/swimming-with-the-sharks-what-progressives-can-learn-from-re

I dont usually come on this thread as it's full of people shouting at themselves but I did and i saw this.

Pretty much echoes what I have thought for a while.  If the left wants to win or influence here it must think long and hard about the following:

"The left is good at talking to itself but not empathising with the views of people who think differently"

 

[Herman 9,716]

It's hard to understand rather than empathise. People losing their livlihoods, towns dying, poor education syandards, housing etc I can empathise with these people, I get why they are so angry. What I don't understand is why they vote for the people who have done more than any other to put them in a worse position or vote for something that will not improve their lives in any way whatsover.

[Bill 1,788]

The left is good at talking to itself but not empathising with the views of people who don't think

The mistake is not grasping that there are people out there incapable of engaging in rational thought - theirs is one of slogans, as with the sheep in Animal Farm

The 'get it done' being a classic. It was if something existed that merely needed a push or something. Simple minded folk accepted this simple minded explanation - without asking themselves if it had been that simple then wht had it not been done before. Something the simple minded are now finding out to their cost.

The right knows that, and so speaks to its follows in simplistic terms. Trump with his similar three word slogans, 'build the wall', 'lock her up'

However when the shouting stops there is nothing behind those vacuous slogans - and simply pandering to idiots to get their votes achieves little in the long run - see Trump.

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's hard to understand rather than empathise. People losing their livlihoods, towns dying, poor education syandards, housing etc I can empathise with these people, I get why they are so angry. What I don't understand is why they vote for the people who have done more than any other to put them in a worse position or vote for something that will not improve their lives in any way whatsover.

Too stupid to think for themselves I'm afraid.

Back home in the local pub and the absolute horsesh it I get told is not so much sickening is the reality that people I grew up with can be so stupid. Because that is what it is to put it blunt

Guff about playing conkers being banned, parts of the UK not allowed to celebrate Christmas and the EU not even being elected.......... and it goes on into infinity

[Jools 584]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

It's hard to understand rather than empathise. People losing their livlihoods, towns dying, poor education syandards, housing etc I can empathise with these people, I get why they are so angry. What I don't understand is why they vote for the people who have done more than any other to put them in a worse position or vote for something that will not improve their lives in any way whatsover.

It was that 13 years of Blair & Brown that totally screwed this country.

[Jools 584]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Too stupid to think for themselves I'm afraid.

Back home in the local pub and the absolute horsesh it I get told is not so much sickening is the reality that people I grew up with can be so stupid. Because that is what it is to put it blunt

Guff about playing conkers being banned, parts of the UK not allowed to celebrate Christmas and the EU not even being elected.......... and it goes on into infinity

Have you ever considered it might be you who is the stupid one?

Again, it was the Blair & Brown show that dumbed everything down and gave us the nanny state where people could no longer think for themselves.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Today is the 23 of June The day The British people have voted to leave the EU  👍

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

It's hard to understand rather than empathise. People losing their livlihoods, towns dying, poor education syandards, housing etc I can empathise with these people, I get why they are so angry. What I don't understand is why they vote for the people who have done more than any other to put them in a worse position or vote for something that will not improve their lives in any way whatsover.

That's true over here in the US too. The six mid west states that gave Trump his victory were royally scr*wed by the Republican Party power brokers for years who broke the unions, then shipped their jobs and factories to China, so who did they turn around and vote for? 

[Jools 584]

13 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Today is the 23 of June The day The British people have voted to leave the EU  👍

God bless Sir Nigel of Farage 👌

[Barbe bleu 814]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

It's hard to understand rather than empathise. People losing their livlihoods, towns dying, poor education syandards, housing etc I can empathise with these people, I get why they are so angry. What I don't understand is why they vote for the people who have done more than any other to put them in a worse position or vote for something that will not improve their lives in any way 

I suspect that a great deal of the marginalised and disadvantaged you describe voted the way they did because their natural allies on the left talk to them in, at best, patronising tones.

If you spent months and years calling someone stupid should you really be surprised when they dont vote for you even of it is in their beat interests to do so?

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Surfer 1,547]

There is definitely something to be said about how left of center parties stopped talking to their traditional supporters in down to earth. language, and they need to fix that, but the role that print, radio and social media have taken in stoking fears and selling nationalistic “solutions” to the problems that countries and these section of voters have faced cannot be ignored either. Now a heavy price will be paid before these voters “come back home” once more.

But to the sneaking neo-fascists, yes they will come back home, your symbolism only has a certain shelf life and it’s quickly running out.  We see your incompetence and cynicism, so you better do want you want now as in a few months it will be too late. Enjoy your power trip. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Surfer

[Herman 9,716]

5 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect that a great deal of the marginalised and disadvantaged you describe voted the way they did because their natural allies on the left talk to them in, at best, patronising tones.

If you spent months and years calling someone stupid should you really be surprised when they dont vote for you even of it is in their beat interests to do so?

 

Well personally speaking I think it is so easy to see what is going on that I feel that people are either stupid or willfully ignorant. 

And maybe you can find out why the people that got what they wanted are still furious about everything? 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Herman

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

8 hours ago, Bill said:

Too stupid to think for themselves I'm afraid.

Back home in the local pub and the absolute horsesh it I get told is not so much sickening is the reality that people I grew up with can be so stupid. Because that is what it is to put it blunt

Guff about playing conkers being banned, parts of the UK not allowed to celebrate Christmas and the EU not even being elected.......... and it goes on into infinity

I wonder what pub these people use?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

What are your thoughts on the way the C- 276/19 judgement should go?

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/derivatives-markets-withdrawal-treaty/

Surprised?

https://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/ecj-finds-against-uk-government-in-politically-motivated-vat-case/

Just asking. I lost interest ages ago  ... too many nuances for my simple brain to take in.

However it just about managed to read and take in every single word, whilst managing to ignore the irrelevant (nb) and rather silly Jacob Rees-Mogg bit at the end of the first article.

Edited June 23, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[kick it off 1,948]

Oh, Boris Johnson's dad has applied for a French passport so that his (incomprehensible number of) grandchildren can enjoy the benefits of the EU.

How strange given what an evil monolith the EU is and the fact it has caused every problem in British society.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Sums up this board

[SteepersCreepers 2]

Swindon, assuming you're not young,  your posting on this thread suggest you will never comprehend what is wrong with the picture you just posted - and it's pointless attempting to reason with you.

[SwindonCanary 455]

2 minutes ago, SteepersCreepers said:

Swindon, assuming you're not young,  your posting on this thread suggest you will never comprehend what is wrong with the picture you just posted - and it's pointless attempting to reason with you.

I can see what's wrong with it, it's exactly what people do on this board !

[Herman 9,716]

Barbe, can you explain how the "left" is supposed to empathise with elder, reasonably comfortably off, angry men, who have little to really complain about but complain constantly. What can be offered that will appease their anger? 

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Barbe, can you explain how the "left" is supposed to empathise with elder, reasonably comfortably off, angry men, who have little to really complain about but complain constantly. What can be offered that will appease their anger? 

Peanuts cartoons.

 

[SHRIMPER 328]

31 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Sums up this board

Limited editions just in. Choice of two colour ways. Can be bought at the NCFC shop. Only a few left as they are selling by the thousands.

 

[Barbe bleu 814]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Barbe, can you explain how the "left" is supposed to empathise with elder, reasonably comfortably off, angry men, who have little to really complain about but complain constantly. What can be offered that will appease their anger? 

To start:

Stop telling them that they are stupid, privileged and that they are to blame for all the problems of the world. 

You might well think that they are all of these things but you gain little by constantly poking them and you risk a backlash. Which might be fine if you didnt need their vote....

If you treat people as the enemy dont be surprised if they act like the enemy. Treat them like an ally and they might just become one

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, SHRIMPER said:

Limited editions just in. Choice of two colour ways. Can be bought at the NCFC shop. Only a few left as they are selling by the thousands.

good job it's not SwindonCanary !  👍

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by SwindonCanary
ADDED LINK

[Herman 9,716]

Some are too far gone Barbe. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

[Barbe bleu 814]

33 minutes ago, Herman said:

Some are too far gone Barbe. 

Nonsence.

Even the likes of Swindon and Jools could get behind fairly radical progressive policies if they feel that they have a stake in it. South Africa and Northern Ireland are not where they are now because one group was made to feel excluded.  They were , however, where they were for that reason

Or you could marginalise the Swindon's of this world further.  But as the last few years prove that is not a recipe for electoral success.

[Surfer 1,547]

My advise to the left of center parties would be - stop the whining, and get to the point. Nobody wants to hear a constant pitch of “everything is broken” and then when asked what the solution is to be told “we’ll it’s all very difficult” ,  Most of the policies of the left are not rejected because they are wrong or unpopular, but because the left has allowed “straight talking” to be the brand of the right, despite many of their policies being very unpopular. So “physician heal thyself” 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Surfer

[Bill 1,788]

12 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect that a great deal of the marginalised and disadvantaged you describe voted the way they did because their natural allies on the left talk to them in, at best, patronising tones.

If you spent months and years calling someone stupid should you really be surprised when they dont vote for you even of it is in their beat interests to do so?

oh dear, cause and effect deliberately switched .... as usual

for the overwhelming majority it was xenophobia, and rather than say that, or talking about anti muslim feeling the rallied around brexit - that being the reason they were obliged then to spout  sh  yte

because it mattered little it was shy te, it gave them some semblance of a decent; argument

just as the same mindset saw rightwing thugs on the street ostensibly to protect war memorials

no amount of reasoned argument is going to win the day against naked bigotry

[Bill 1,788]

 

oh dear, it just gets worse for the brexit thickos as Japan demands that a deal be agreed with the UK in 6 weeks

''The Japanese side is clear that it expects more concessions from the UK than from the EU. While they have discussed the option of having a limited deal in the short run, followed by a more complete one as time permits, they are worried about the high political cost of getting even a limited deal through the Diet. They are also aware that any concessions made to the UK will have to be offered to the EU under the terms of the EU-Japan trade treaty, so they must come with matching concessions from the UK that the EU as a whole would not agree to. "

and

''What is evident, however, is that no country wants to conclude a definitive trade deal with the UK without knowing the final shape of the EU-UK partnership."

''The Japanese side is clear that it expects more concessions from the UK than from the EU. "

and so it begins

 

"

[Bill 1,788]

another Tory slimeball with his nose in the trough
 

Quote

 

''The health secretary Matt Hancock repeatedly urged fellow Conservative ministers to block a plan in his constituency to build 400 homes and a primary school, claiming it would damage the horse racing industry.

His opposition to the development came as senior figures in horse racing leading the opposition made financial donations to him.

Rachel Hood, then the Conservative mayor of Newmarket, and her husband John Gosden, a prominent horseracing trainer who gave evidence opposing the scheme at the public inquiry, each gave Hancock £10,000 in December 2018 and May last year respectively.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/23/hancock-tried-to-block-plan-to-build-400-homes-in-newmarket