The Positive Brexit Thread

[Herman 9,716]

Keep up Jools. We're crashing out with nothing and Covid is going to be used to cover up the carnage. Well done.

[BigFish 1,986]

9 minutes ago, Jools said:

David Frost's letter to Michel Barnier yesterday --- It's perfect. It's beautiful. At last we have a UK Government prepared to stand up fully to the bullies of the EU --- Here is the letter  👉https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886168/Letter_to_Michel_Barnier_19.05.20.pdf

 

👍                

WTO is looking much more likely now that Barnier has painted the EU into a corner 👌

 

WTO, WTO........haven't you noticed that the WTO is now leaderless and the WTO arbitration courts don't have judges because mate Trump won't appoint any.

There is no WTO to lift your Brexit arses out of the fire, you need to come up with something else. And no amount of Frosts hissy fits is going to change that. He knows that, the EU knows that when are you going to catch up.

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

Isn't David Frost one of those unelected bureaucrats that Brexiteers dislike?

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

Yep the planning inspectorate should have disregarded all the guidance being followed by others like the judiciary and tribunal service, put all their staff at risk and ploughed on. 👍

Or alternatively they could have done what most businesses, local government and indeed Parliament itself is doing and used some simple technology to get the job done without putting anyone at risk.👍
 

[Surfer 1,547]

14 minutes ago, BigFish said:

WTO, WTO........haven't you noticed that the WTO is now leaderless and the WTO arbitration courts don't have judges because mate Trump won't appoint any.

Ah yes, Republican Senators Hawley was just making big noises about the US needing to pull out of the WTO - he's another of the America First crowd that don't want ANY international trade - unless America mandates the trade terms - sorry about that U.K.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/07/josh-hawley-us-withdraw-wto-243681

"International organizations like the WTO have enabled the rise of China and benefited elites around the globe while hollowing out American industry, from small towns to once-thriving urban centers,” Hawley continued. “We need to return production to America, secure critical supply chains, and encourage domestic innovation. Pulling out of the WTO is a good first step."

Or instead of rabble rousing he could help by sponsoring legislation:  

Return production to America - fix the US tax code on investment and reduce medical costs on US businesses. 

Secure critical supply chains - fix the US tax code on inventory and implement strategic purchase agreements.

Encourage domestic innovation - fix the US tax code, increase  investment into emerging technology research .

Pulling out of the WTO  - achieves nothing.

[Van wink 2,994]

48 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Or alternatively they could have done what most businesses, local government and indeed Parliament itself is doing and used some simple technology to get the job done without putting anyone at risk.👍
 

Thats undoubtedly the plan as in "The inspectorate promised to hold “virtual events” to allow interested parties to participate remotely."

Seems the level of debate on this thread is still at "screaming girls blouse" from most.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Van wink

[Surfer 1,547]

51 minutes ago, Herman said:

Keep up Jools. We're crashing out with nothing and Covid is going to be used to cover up the carnage. Well done.

Indeed. In the last week we've seen the "Fisheries" argument blow up - there are long established commercial contracts allocating existing British quotas to continental fishing boats that must be honored -  and the "no Irish border" argument blow up - UK Gov now admitting there will have to be customs post added at N.Irish sea and air ports, and the "frictionless trade" argument blow up - the EU saying that if you want frictionless, tariff-free trade then you have to continue to adhere to a range of agreed standards. 

But Boris is throwing a fit because he pinky promised to take Britain out of the EU orbit.

Oh and the US threatening the UK not to do a trade deal with China, or the US deal is off. 

All of this was some predicable, and frankly was predicted. 

After Frost published a letter saying the EU was only offering Britain a “low quality” trade deal, Barnier said he rejected combative public statements and would prefer to engage in real technical negotiations. He said Britain would have to commit to upholding standards on state aid, competition, climate, tax and labour in order for it to be allowed to trade freely with the bloc after the status-quo transition period following Brexit ends, which is currently due to happen on Dec. 31. But that idea is anathema to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, a leading Brexit campaigner who promised to take Britain out of the EU’s orbit.

[Van wink 2,994]

You guys might as well give up, any economic downturn that may or may not happen as a result of Brexit is now irrelevant.

[Surfer 1,547]

What is not irrelevant is the whole point of Brexit is to achieve "deregulation". 

What does that mean? Simple : more profit for businesses/ financiers, and more costs for workers / society. 

Or specifically, more pollution, lower wages, lower food hygiene standards, higher medical cost, less freedom. 

So, no I won't be "giving up" on pointing that out.  

[Van wink 2,994]

8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

What is not irrelevant is the whole point of Brexit is to achieve "deregulation". 

What does that mean? Simple : more profit for businesses/ financiers, and more costs for workers / society. 

Or specifically, more pollution, lower wages, lower food hygiene standards, higher medical cost, less freedom. 

So, no I won't be "giving up" on pointing that out.  

Dont give up, its important that you make your points, I'm just suggesting that the audience is somewhat limited.

[Herman 9,716]

39 minutes ago, Van wink said:

You guys might as well give up, any economic downturn that may or may not happen as a result of Brexit is now irrelevant.

See my first post on this page. With Covid you guys have a "get out of jail free card".

[BigFish 1,986]

21 minutes ago, Herman said:

See my first post on this page. With Covid you guys have a "get out of jail free card".

Its been a rolling disaster since the Brexiteers took back control

[Van wink 2,994]

29 minutes ago, Herman said:

See my first post on this page. With Covid you guys have a "get out of jail free card".

Never needed one Hermy, I dont look on this thread very often these days but when I do it just seems to be the same faces stewing in their own juice. Fair unoeff.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Van wink

[Herman 9,716]

Fair enough. Well done to what you have achieved. 👍

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

40 minutes ago, Herman said:

See my first post on this page. With Covid you guys have a "get out of jail free card".

Really? I thought their 'get out of jail free card' was the magic money trees that the Tories have spent years telling us don't exist yet somehow, miraculously, turned up out of thin air when they realised they'd screwed the economy, again!

Still I rather think that when the public enquiry into the handling of the Covid crisis gets going, a tanking economy is going to be the least of their worries.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

On 03/05/2020 at 10:54, PurpleCanary said:

Dear old Captain Pugwash, the hero of the Seven Seas! The UK is refusing to allow the EU to have an office in Belfast for the purpose of monitoring the trade border in the Irish Sea. Hard to see a reason for that refusal other than the obvious one that Johnson is going to renege on the Irish Sea border agreement. Who'd have thought it, eh?! But if so then the chances of the overall trade talks collapsing are sky-high.

Update. The UK has finally announced its proposals on policing this border. To be fair the UK has acknowleged that there will need to be checks on animals and agri-foods, but there seems to be no mention of goods being checked, and all the way through the emphasis is on light-touch policing, the bare minimum, with the assertion that there will be no need for any new customs' infrastructure.

One EU official, asked if this plan accorded with what Johnson signed up to, which necessitated very strict policing to protect the single market, with new customs' infrastructure, said: 'It doesn't.' So Johnson is planning to renege in practice while claiming he is complying.

[Surfer 1,547]

Essentially a smugglers charter isn’t it? He has (perhaps deliberately) got the enforcement the wrong way around. Local agricultural products subject to controls crossing the border - when in practice it is all one eco-system anyway, versus no planned checks for dodgy trading companies shipping non-compliant UK labeled goods into the EU via Eire. This proposal is not going to fly .....and it will scupper any UK / US trade deal too as Congress will not approve any trade deal that weakens the GFA the US is a guarantor of.... if it was not clear by now, the world is complicated and anyone selling “easy solutions” is lying. 

[BigFish 1,986]

23 minutes ago, Surfer said:

..... anyone selling “easy solutions” is lying. 

That's never stopped them

[Jools 584]

5 hours ago, Herman said:

Keep up Jools. We're crashing out with nothing and Covid is going to be used to cover up the carnage. Well done.

All world economies are going to drop as a result of the Coronavirus measures in various countries, you tool --- And as the EU is losing us as a member they're facing a far bigger overall drop in their economy -- The EU’s post-Brexit economy is set to tank by 30% this year alone.

15.34% (€2.52 trillion) of the EU’s total economy came from the UK last year --- The former are going to lose that and all indications are that the EU's combined GDP will fall by 15% this year because of the Coronavirus lock-downs.

Where the UK is concerned, I have an inkling that no longer contributing €2.52 trillion to the EU will help quell the hit of any recession caused by the virus.

 

Hermoron ~ "Keep up, Jools"

Yeah, right 😀

[Surfer 1,547]

Oh dear, here he goes again. We don’t give a damn about the EU economy, we do give a damn about the UK’s. Take the UK’s GDP out of the EU and of course the EU’s economy is smaller, but that action does not make the UK’s economy any bigger does it?!

CoronaVirus may give some “cover” to the economic disruption, but on the other hand, the general incompetence of this Government over managing a difficult issue like Covid may break the public will to ignore all the flashing danger signals over Brexit “negotiations” - which are currently heading for the hardest “no deal” as “Johnny foreigner” won’t bow down to Boris.

[Herman 9,716]

That is our GDP not the EUs money. They do not lose that money because it isn't theirs.

It's sad really. Nearly everything we said would happen and was classed as Project Fear is going to happen and yet they still class us as the enemy and scumbags. One day you'll realise we have been trying to protect this country from some of the most dubious political leaders this country has ever produced. It'll be far too late by then.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

8 hours ago, Jools said:

All world economies are going to drop as a result of the Coronavirus measures in various countries, you tool --- And as the EU is losing us as a member they're facing a far bigger overall drop in their economy -- The EU’s post-Brexit economy is set to tank by 30% this year alone.

15.34% (€2.52 trillion) of the EU’s total economy came from the UK last year --- The former are going to lose that and all indications are that the EU's combined GDP will fall by 15% this year because of the Coronavirus lock-downs.

Where the UK is concerned, I have an inkling that no longer contributing €2.52 trillion to the EU will help quell the hit of any recession caused by the virus.

 

Hermoron ~ "Keep up, Jools"

Yeah, right 😀

Hi Jools, have you got this month’s copy yet mate?

[BigFish 1,986]

9 hours ago, Jools said:

Where the UK is concerned, I have an inkling that no longer contributing €2.52 trillion to the EU will help quell the hit of any recession caused by the virus.

When faced with stupidity of this magnitude rational debate has no value

[Yellow Fever 3,748]

I see the same old arguments are going on.

Really all Brexit will do is stymie or slow any recovery from Covid. The rest of the world will be getting its act together in the autumn whereas companies in the UK will be hesitant, restructuring and thinking 'is it worth it'? What can we extort from the government?

Covid will give non-political cover for lots to make radical changes - centre production in their main markets.

Laugh a minute with the deluisions on show.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

16 hours ago, Van wink said:

You guys might as well give up, any economic downturn that may or may not happen as a result of Brexit is now irrelevant.

it is not irrelevant, because now that the blame game has started we will see the Tory's trying to make out that the economy is in such bad shape due to Brexit, nothing to do with their failures and drastic mistakes made that killed thousands and exposed his cabinet of eugenics as useless, ineffective and dangerous to us all.

Not one child should go back to school until our workshy MP's are sitting back in the HoC, sharing the same risks they are asking our children to take on 1.June.

[Van wink 2,994]

5 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

it is not irrelevant, because now that the blame game has started we will see the Tory's trying to make out that the economy is in such bad shape due to Brexit, nothing to do with their failures and drastic mistakes made that killed thousands and exposed his cabinet of eugenics as useless, ineffective and dangerous to us all.

Not one child should go back to school until our workshy MP's are sitting back in the HoC, sharing the same risks they are asking our children to take on 1.June.

"exposed his cabinet of eugenics as useless, ineffective and dangerous to us all"

thats about the level this debate has sunk to

Edited May 21, 2020 by Van wink

[SwindonCanary 455]

This is why we need a points based qualification system in place ASAP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52752656

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

8 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

This is why we need a points based qualification system in place ASAP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52752656

For non-EU citizens, there are several different work visas available for different purposes. Most work visas are part of the UK’s ‘points-based system’,

The link you have posted is about migration from non-EU countries

UK migration: Net migration from outside EU hits 'highest level'

THERE ALREADY IS A POINTS BASED SYSTEM FOR NON-EU COUNTRIES, YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

thats about the level this debate has sunk to

Just keep telling yourself that @Van wink - and remember to stay happy whilst you're doing it, after all unlike the unfortunate 57% of the electorate, you have got what you voted for.  😀

[sonyc 5,492]

I am only a very rare visitor to this thread (reading and less posting) but I have only really just worked out (doh!) that most people who voted for Brexit who post are the same as those who support the current government. There is an uncanny alignment to my eyes and the correlation is astonishing. It's very rare I think for the opposite.

I know I can be a little naive at times but this is a revelation and I now understand completely the reactions on say, the Main Coronavirus thread, of posters who disagree so strongly on stuff. If you post a view then it is unacceptable to a few. Before lockdown, I ventured less comment (I have a low post count for the time I've been registered on here since 2004) so this is my excuse. 

Amazing that leftish and rightish posters would align so much to their Brexit stance as you might expect some Tories to have voted to remain and certainly vice versa. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by sonyc