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Jools

The Positive Brexit Thread

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OK, you can get steak and chips for about a tenner. Not the best you'll ever have but still good enough. How much cheaper do you want to go and what kind of quality would you tolerate? 

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

And what quality would it be if it is flown half way around the world and still comes out cheaper than 2 quid? 

A bit tired I should imagine.

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2 hours ago, Surfer said:

 but the impact on our rural economies - who mostly backed Brexit - would be devastating. 

 

Its the Yorkshire tea leaf pickers I feel sorry for.

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4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

What's stupidly comical is your insistence that exports to the EU are about to come to a sudden halt - much in the same way that you told us planes would stop flying to Europe if we voted for Brexit.

The Protected Designated of Origin is an EU scheme to protect large parts of European food production. Are you really so stupid as to believe the EU will not want to include PDO status in a trade deal with us? Because if they did, it would give the UK the right to sell products as Parma Ham and Champagne. This is obviously an example where their being bigger than us is a disadvantage. We actually would be better off without following PDO but back here in the real world it is obvious to serious commentators that PDO statutes will continue to be respected between the UK and the EU.

Neither is Swindon anything of the sort of scare tactics that you just can't let go of, even though it's nearly four years since Project Fear began. The EU will continue to buy our beef and salmon. Despite our leaving the EU, our salmon sales to the EU increased by 25% in value last year. They will continue to buy them in the future because they are quality products, and better for us, we will be signing free trade agreements across the globe to open up new markets for our highly demanded goods.

I appreciate you find it difficult to understand what is going on and when caught out will attempt some deflection and invention instead, particularly attributing statements that haven't been made or selectively quoting out of context. The question is about what the outcome would be of any deal, or more likely deals, will be or alternatively what the outcome of no deal would be. Without a deal on flights, yes they will stop without an agreement to replace the current EU regulations. Unlikely though it is, it remains a fact.

Now PDO is governed by EU regulations as part of the Single Market. Johnson does not want to follow EU regulations particularly those that lead to the ECJ. How do, or the "serious commentators" you refer to but do not name suggest this circle is squared? You seem to think it is possible for the UK to peddle counterfeit goods without serious reputational damage.

Of course the EU, the UK's major market for meat and fish, will continue to buy. But increased paperwork, phytosanitary checks and in the case of no deal both tariffs and quotas cannot help but impact on volumes and value. @SwindonCanary meanwhile doubled down on the stupidity of his earlier post claiming that it enabled the UK to "shop around" for the cheapest products. Ignoring both the impact on UK food producers and the WTO's Most favoured nation rule.

I note you ignored the question on why you are so curiously obsessed with primary industries with a tiny value to the UK economy. Was it too difficult to answer?

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47 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

What's stupidly comical is your insistence that exports to the EU are about to come to a sudden halt - much in the same way that you told us planes would stop flying to Europe if we voted for Brexit.

Obviously having made your one truthful post for this year, you've resorted to just making stuff up again.

@BigFish did not insist that exports to the EU are about to come to a sudden halt, or anything remotely like it - what he actually said were that they were 'at risk' which is quite obviously true if the UK ends up with WTO rules. They won't come to a sudden halt but their price will increase which means there is a risk (a very high risk in fact) that the volumes will decrease and/or the profit margin on them will be significantly reduced to remain competitive or both. And for the fresh fish products there is an additional risk in the customs delays. So as usual @BigFish is spot on whilst you are talking total cobblers.

TBF you are right that PDOs, like pretty much everything else, work both ways but you are typically delusional if you think people are going to be queueing up to buy British Champagne & Parma Ham, especially as we will only have the right to sell them within the UK and to other countries outside the EU and who don't have trade deals with the EU which recognise PDOs - I'm guessing that isn't a particularly large or profitable market to get into even we had the expertise and experience to make the products in the first place.......

Edited by Creative Midfielder
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22 minutes ago, ricardo said:

A bit tired I should imagine.

I'm sure a splash of chlorine would perk it up a bit.

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2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I was not pointing it out because of the UK economy, It's a cheaper price on the shelf's 

Shelves

So @SwindonCanary, the delemma is do you buy British or do do you buy cheapest?

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7 minutes ago, BigFish said:

I appreciate you find it difficult to understand what is going on and when caught out will attempt some deflection and invention instead, particularly attributing statements that haven't been made or selectively quoting out of context. The question is about what the outcome would be of any deal, or more likely deals, will be or alternatively what the outcome of no deal would be. Without a deal on flights, yes they will stop without an agreement to replace the current EU regulations. Unlikely though it is, it remains a fact.

Now PDO is governed by EU regulations as part of the Single Market. Johnson does not want to follow EU regulations particularly those that lead to the ECJ. How do, or the "serious commentators" you refer to but do not name suggest this circle is squared? You seem to think it is possible for the UK to peddle counterfeit goods without serious reputational damage.

Of course the EU, the UK's major market for meat and fish, will continue to buy. But increased paperwork, phytosanitary checks and in the case of no deal both tariffs and quotas cannot help but impact on volumes and value. @SwindonCanary meanwhile doubled down on the stupidity of his earlier post claiming that it enabled the UK to "shop around" for the cheapest products. Ignoring both the impact on UK food producers and the WTO's Most favoured nation rule.

I note you ignored the question on why you are so curiously obsessed with primary industries with a tiny value to the UK economy. Was it too difficult to answer?

I have covered hundreds of subjects on this and the other Brexit thread, so claiming I am 'curiously obsessed' with primary industries seems to be a curious claim to make. I am responding to your post about UK farming products so this is keeping within the discussion framework. Or should we veer off and talk about artificial intelligence or something? Weird.

Now what you say about paperwork, phytosanitary checks, and tariffs and quotas all do impact on volume and value of trade and so part of the up-coming negotiations will deal with all these questions. Nothing is insurmountable, the only question is how disruptive does the EU wish to be. At the moment, 98% of all our imports, including from non-EU countries, pass into the UK within two minutes of processing. It should be possible to maintain those kind of levels of processing. 

But Swindon does make a very valid point. We do not have to buy EU products when there are equally good alternatives available. It is not stupid to suggest that we will realign our commercial relationship with New Zealand, for example. There are countries waiting to do deals with us and we can do them speedily. Even Nissan is waking up to the idea of closing down EU production and moving it to the UK. We have nothing to fear.

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19 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Obviously having made your one truthful post for this year, you've resorted to just making stuff up again.

@BigFish did not insist that exports to the EU are about to come to a sudden halt, or anything remotely like it - what he actually said were that they were 'at risk' which is quite obviously true if the UK ends up with WTO rules. They won't come to a sudden halt but their price will increase which means there is a risk (a very high risk in fact) that the volumes will decrease and/or the profit margin on them will be significantly reduced to remain competitive or both. And for the fresh fish products there is an additional risk in the customs delays. So as usual @BigFish is spot on whilst you are talking total cobblers.

TBF you are right that PDOs, like pretty much everything else, work both ways but you are typically delusional if you think people are going to be queueing up to buy British Champagne & Parma Ham, especially as we will only have the right to sell them within the UK and to other countries outside the EU and who don't have trade deals with the EU which recognise PDOs - I'm guessing that isn't a particularly large or profitable market to get into even we had the expertise and experience to make the products in the first place.......

What is your argument? I already stated that I believe we will mutually respect EU/UK PDOs as part of our FTA with the EU. Did you not understand that?

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3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Nothing is insurmountable, the only question is how disruptive does the EU wish to be.

And there you have it, the fundamental flaw in your argument.

That is not the only question. For a start there is a question of how awkward the UK will be negotiations. At present Johnson is playing to the gallery and talking tough. The EU is politely making the case that the less level the playing field the more friction at the borders.

After that line by line, sector by sector there are hundreds, probably thousands, of questions, compromises and trade-offs.

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5 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

 I already stated that I believe we will mutually respect EU/UK PDOs as part of our FTA with the EU.

Another humdinger, the UK doesn't have a PDO system. Only the EU does. So there is nothing for the EU to recognise and even if they did no regulations to govern it.

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Just now, Rock The Boat said:

What is your argument?

How much clearer can I make it?

You made a statement that was completely false, or just to make it plain to Swindon - you lied. That was your starting point, followed up by a second lie.

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14 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

I already stated that I believe we will mutually respect EU/UK PDOs as part of our FTA with the EU. Did you not understand that?

Yes, I did understand that you believe it but the reasons you gave for that 'belief' were frankly unconvincing (and that is me being super polite!), and that's without your beloved leader pretty much ruling it out the other day.

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

You can buy a whole chicken from Sainsburys for just over 2 quid.

No, you can't, we've left the EU and you told us early on in the deleted 'EU' thread that supermarket shelves would be empty...

I'm going to my local Sainsburys now to check for myself... 🚗

Chicken two quid a pop you say... 🐔

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

I go along the shelf's  and get the best deal

.......and I get accused of a lack of patriotism

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Careful Jools. We all still remember that last incident with you and a Sainsburys chicken...

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Blimey Brixit is over and all you've got to argue about is the price of chicken give it a rest !

Remainers (or is that re-appliers) and leavers should both forget about their diffidences

Edited by SwindonCanary
too many words
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24 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Blimey Brixit is over and all you've got to argue about is the price of chicken give it a rest !

Remainers (or is that re-appliers) and leavers should both forget about their diffidences

It’s funny that you edited that post but left in all the mouse brain grammar and spelling mistakes 🤣

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5 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

EU expect Boris to do the thing he's already agreed to do? Shock Horror!

The point is that the EU are threatening to scrap talks and that plays into Boris's hands as he just needs a ready excuse for WTO.  I can envisage the transition period being cut short which would end something that most leavers never wanted anyway. As soon as we go to WTO the EU will come running for a deal ....... 🤣

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On 04/02/2020 at 00:04, Rock The Boat said:

You are incredibly thick, CM

We will get a great deal because it is in Americas interests to have a strong UK in Europe to act as a political counter-weight to the EU. I'll let you use your two brain cells to work out why that might be.

And BTW, this only applies if the Republicans are in office, the Democrats are not our friends so we have get this over the line before November

A good trade deal is dependent on the electorate of another country?

That's not taking back control😡

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Now the tables have turned. Politically the Johnson government looks unassailable, It's time the UK played the strong hand. And if Barnier and his masters still don’t get it, how about falling back on the divorce payment ? It does not have to be paid anyway says the law .

Where on Earth does it come from anyway ? Mrs May has a lot to answer for.

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