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The Positive Brexit Thread

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1 minute ago, SHRIMPER said:

As you SWINDO the FVCKWIT are a proven LIAR.  KIO has every right to fact check you. I do not check you as I know everything you post is coming from the fingertips of a compusory LIAR.

So you are saying that Roger Bootle is a compusory(sic) liar. Do you have any proof of that - and I'm assuming you mean 'compulsory'.?

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Roger Bootle, an acolyte of Patrick Minford, he of "Giving evidence in a Foreign Affairs Committee session in 2012, Minford agreed that the U.K. automotive manufacturing industry would be destroyed. “You are going to have to run it down,” he said, nonchalantly. “It will be in your interests to do it, just as in the same way we ran down the coal and steel industries,” added Minford." fame, writing for the brexit newspaper owned by the billionaire owners of the Ritz. A fair and balanced view.😐

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18 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

So you are saying that Roger Bootle is a compusory(sic) liar. Do you have any proof of that - and I'm assuming you mean 'compulsory'.?

If there's a wrong end of the stick to grab you certainly go for it with both hands.

 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Roger Bootle, an acolyte of Patrick Minford, he of "Giving evidence in a Foreign Affairs Committee session in 2012, Minford agreed that the U.K. automotive manufacturing industry would be destroyed. “You are going to have to run it down,” he said, nonchalantly. “It will be in your interests to do it, just as in the same way we ran down the coal and steel industries,” added Minford." fame, writing for the brexit newspaper owned by the billionaire owners of the Ritz. A fair and balanced view.😐

So you're saying Roger Bootle is Patrick Miinford?

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39 minutes ago, Herman said:

Roger Bootle, an acolyte of Patrick Minford, he of "Giving evidence in a Foreign Affairs Committee session in 2012, Minford agreed that the U.K. automotive manufacturing industry would be destroyed. “You are going to have to run it down,” he said, nonchalantly. “It will be in your interests to do it, just as in the same way we ran down the coal and steel industries,” added Minford." fame, writing for the brexit newspaper owned by the billionaire owners of the Ritz. A fair and balanced view.😐

Leaving aside the irrelevant waffle, factless assertion, false logic (Johnson's landslide won't help much in negotiations with the EU) and the already debunked 'They needs us more...' argument (has Bootle paid no attention at all to how talks with the EU have gone so far?) there is only one real prediction:

''The Johnson government is going to succeed in doing trade deals with the EU and several other countries, and without preserving close regulatory alignment with the EU.'

Note for starters that Bootle doesn't give a time limit for these supposed deals. He is not promising they will happen by December 31 2020. Secondly, I have not seen anyone claim that if the UK does a trade deal with Kyrgyzstan, say, or the Federated States of Micronesia it will have to have close regulatory alignment with the EU.

As to the relevant question of an EU-UK trade deal, Bootle fudges his prediction by not defining what he means by 'close regulatory alignment'. Without that definition he can later argue that whatever alignment continues to exist really isn't close, provided it is not total.

But the real point is that, again, no-one is saying the UK can only have a trade deal if alignment stays close. The EU certainly is not saying that. Only, and this is crucial, that the less the alignment the less of a trade deal it will be. And perhaps, although he doesn't admit it, Bootle understands this reality, because nowhere in that prediction is there any mention of how good these trade deals will be. Odd, that.

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3 hours ago, ron obvious said:

I did not say that. I said that the likelihood of acquiring greater experience increases with age. Would you care to refute that?

If you only listen to those who support your own views then you will never acquire wisdom. I've known many people who simply will not accept any views except their own, & they have been distributed uniformly across any classification you could make. In fact the only class you could say they belonged to would be the class of those who refuse to accept any views except their own.

As for 'experts', as I & others have pointed out you judge an expert by results. There is no other sensible way to judge them: would you employ a mechanic who keeps misdiagnosing your car's problems? A surgeon whose patients keep dying despite assurances they'll survive? A plumber whose joints always leak? A dentist who pulls the wrong teeth? Economists (certainly those who make confident predictions about the future) fail that basic test. In fact they're about as 'expert' as the average football pundit on here.

I don't doubt they're intelligent people who used increasingly sophisticated techniques to model the global economy, but their success rate thus far is on a par with long term weather forecasting & as good as someone who's spent a lifetime studying tea leaves.

One of the biggest drivers of economics is technological change - how on earth do you predict that? As for emotion, whether you like it or not it is one of the main drivers of human behaviour & impossible to quantify in any economic model; if you don't understand that I don't know what you're doing here, on a football forum for god's sake!

Perhaps one of the main economic drivers for change is environmental awareness - care to predict how that's going to pan out in economic terms? What % chance would you give it of being correct?

You continue to make assertions dressed up as 'fact'. You'r contempt for anyone who disagrees with you shines through, particularly if you regard them as 'elderly'. The future of most British jobs will I suspect lie far more within our own hands than elsewhere; I cannot prove that, just as you cannot prove the opposite.

We're leaving the EU & I think most rational people will roll their sleeves up & get on with it rather than continually going on about how stupid, racist & xenophobic everyone was who voted to leave the EU. I do not think you're among that number however.

 

 

Fascinating Ron.

First I wrote my original comment simply to give the lie to 'Wisdom' being the prerogative of the old (and I'm 'old' in most people's eyes - a boomer) given some earlier comments that seemed to stem from a discussion on the election voting demographics. Being old does not confer wisdom although as clearly stated there is a correlation with (but wisdom is not function of) age. I studiously ignored any comment as to Brexit. You may also be wise in one subject but hopeless on another.

You then decided to introduce Brexit into the conversation to which I have replied given the generally agreed and researched positions the electorate took. Nothing contentious although I point out wisdom had nothing to do with the result. It was head vs heart. Heart won - and internationally that looks to others like an odd  'unwise' decision.

So now you get personal. It's a Brexiter trait it seems. For your information I export and manufacture goods - yes I will work across Christmas (including the 25th) as my markets do not celebrate Christmas but New Year.  I am also fed up having to explain (or is it laugh) at the noddy Brexit decision on 5 different continents (that's Asia, Australia, M.East (Africa), N.America and Europe) to gobsmacked businesses who wonder where the sensible pragmatic UK has gone. So roll your sleeves up Ron - and pray people like me continue to work hard for the UK to manufacture, employ and sell overseas. Somebody has to earn foreign currency !!!!

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So, Laura Kuenssberg, the supposed Political editor of the BBC can't grasp that Theresa May, in a minority government, and with a supply agreement with the DUP, couldn't get her deal through because the ERG and the DUP voted it down? If May had a decent majority in 2017 we wouldn't have had three years of dithering. Ken Clarke voted for her deal, the ERG didn't, yet the narrative being pushed is that the "Remoaners"/"Remainers" were at fault.

Opposition parties oppose. Rightly or wrongly they obstruct whatever the government's agenda (even if they agree with it) because they want to obtain power and try to do it better.

With Boris's majority he can now push through a deal that treats Northern Ireland differently, which is abhorrent to the DUP.

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57 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

So, Laura Kuenssberg, the supposed Political editor of the BBC can't grasp that Theresa May, in a minority government, and with a supply agreement with the DUP, couldn't get her deal through because the ERG and the DUP voted it down? If May had a decent majority in 2017 we wouldn't have had three years of dithering. Ken Clarke voted for her deal, the ERG didn't, yet the narrative being pushed is that the "Remoaners"/"Remainers" were at fault.

Opposition parties oppose. Rightly or wrongly they obstruct whatever the government's agenda (even if they agree with it) because they want to obtain power and try to do it better.

With Boris's majority he can now push through a deal that treats Northern Ireland differently, which is abhorrent to the DUP.

Seems a good argument for the current FPTP system

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Fascinating Ron.

First I wrote my original comment simply to give the lie to 'Wisdom' being the prerogative of the old (and I'm 'old' in most people's eyes - a boomer) given some earlier comments that seemed to stem from a discussion on the election voting demographics. Being old does not confer wisdom although as clearly stated there is a correlation with (but wisdom is not function of) age. I studiously ignored any comment as to Brexit. You may also be wise in one subject but hopeless on another.

You then decided to introduce Brexit into the conversation to which I have replied given the generally agreed and researched positions the electorate took. Nothing contentious although I point out wisdom had nothing to do with the result. It was head vs heart. Heart won - and internationally that looks to others like an odd  'unwise' decision.

So now you get personal. It's a Brexiter trait it seems. For your information I export and manufacture goods - yes I will work across Christmas (including the 25th) as my markets do not celebrate Christmas but New Year.  I am also fed up having to explain (or is it laugh) at the noddy Brexit decision on 5 different continents (that's Asia, Australia, M.East (Africa), N.America and Europe) to gobsmacked businesses who wonder where the sensible pragmatic UK has gone. So roll your sleeves up Ron - and pray people like me continue to work hard for the UK to manufacture, employ and sell overseas. Somebody has to earn foreign currency !!!!

Again, you ascribe 'Brexiteer traits' with no evidence or justification. If you want to see personal insults read some of Hoola Hans Solo or SHRIMPER's posts. As far as I can see the insults almost invariably start with people who voted remain insulting people who voted for Brexit. It would be interesting to follow this topic from the beginning to see where the initial antagonism lies. If I'm feeling bored I may just do that.

This is the Brexit thread. I only mentioned it tangentially in my original reply as an example of young people being fearful of breaking with the past. You then replied with "As to Brexit" & dragged it fully into the conversation.

My 'personal' remarks were as a result of your still banging on about how only stupid people voted to leave the EU. I did, so I take it personally & will reply in kind.

 

 

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4 hours ago, TCCANARY said:

If there's a wrong end of the stick to grab you certainly go for it with both hands.

 

Ah bless, you little lamb. Are you getting an X-Box for Christmas then?

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1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Again, you ascribe 'Brexiteer traits' with no evidence or justification. If you want to see personal insults read some of Hoola Hans Solo or SHRIMPER's posts. As far as I can see the insults almost invariably start with people who voted remain insulting people who voted for Brexit. It would be interesting to follow this topic from the beginning to see where the initial antagonism lies. If I'm feeling bored I may just do that.

This is the Brexit thread. I only mentioned it tangentially in my original reply as an example of young people being fearful of breaking with the past. You then replied with "As to Brexit" & dragged it fully into the conversation.

My 'personal' remarks were as a result of your still banging on about how only stupid people voted to leave the EU. I did, so I take it personally & will reply in kind.

 

 

Oh dear. Did I say stupid people. No. However it is undeniable that people my age i.e. pensioners and generally not so economically active swung the Brexit vote.

Like most people of a Remain persuasion we will continue to make the most of what we might regard as a bad situation. Don't expect however for me to think it was sensible as it only hampers business.

Merry Christmas. Perhaps we can get 6 points on Boxing day.

 

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16 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Merry Christmas. Perhaps we can get 6 points on Boxing day.

 

Mat Hancock suggests this is possible. We'll start off with 0 points but a win will mean that we don't lose 3 points and will also gain 3 points so that makes it 6 new points.

 

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42 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Oh dear. Did I say stupid people. No. However it is undeniable that people my age i.e. pensioners and generally not so economically active swung the Brexit vote.

Like most people of a Remain persuasion we will continue to make the most of what we might regard as a bad situation. Don't expect however for me to think it was sensible as it only hampers business.

Merry Christmas. Perhaps we can get 6 points on Boxing day.

 

I do not expect remainers to approve of Brexit, any more than I approved of our decision to join the Common Market. I can see why people voted to remain, I have never tried to persuade anyone that staying in was the wrong decision, but, inasmuch as any election or referendum is democratic, leave won the day.

Anyway, a Merry Christmas to you & yours too. Perhaps we can do the double this year - avoid relegation AND get a good deal :classic_biggrin:

OTBC!

 

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8 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

 

She's stating the bleedin' obvious, but what a total hypocrite she is! Kuenssberg's reporting was severely, pro-Remain in the first couple of years + proceeding the referendum vote and the only reason she's saying this now is because her favoured Labour Party lost heavily and she and the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation are frit of Boris's and the Conservatives threat to delegitimise the biased organisation, which is laughable as they pretty much delegitimise themselves.

Number 10 has rightly been boycotting Radio 4's 'Today' programme and Sarah Sands, former editor of the latter, has stated "It’s a pretty good time for the Right-wing to put the foot on the windpipe of the corrupt broadcaster." 👍

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Working the refs again I see Jools.

BBC not in the bag for the Tories, but instead for Labour? Really, you think anyone will buy that? 

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6 hours ago, Jools said:

She's stating the bleedin' obvious, but what a total hypocrite she is! Kuenssberg's reporting was severely, pro-Remain in the first couple of years + proceeding the referendum vote and the only reason she's saying this now is because her favoured Labour Party lost heavily and she and the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation are frit of Boris's and the Conservatives threat to delegitimise the biased organisation, which is laughable as they pretty much delegitimise themselves.

Number 10 has rightly been boycotting Radio 4's 'Today' programme and Sarah Sands, former editor of the latter, has stated "It’s a pretty good time for the Right-wing to put the foot on the windpipe of the corrupt broadcaster." 👍

Boris should have put privatisation of the BBC in the Tory manifesto to guarantee an even greater majority.

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6 hours ago, Surfer said:

Working the refs again I see Jools.

BBC not in the bag for the Tories, but instead for Labour? Really, you think anyone will buy that? 

I wouldn't worry too much about Jools's opinion. Everyone knows he just repeats what he's told to. He's either a sockpuppet or so brainwashed that he can't see the obvious.

As to the BBC. It is a good time for the RWNJs to attack. Not only has Murdoch and associated goons successfully persuaded the British public that their own national braodcaster is against them, the BBC itself's own actions, including people like Kuennsberg and Humphries, has alienated a lot of its allies leading it to be in the weakest position it has been ever.

Here is Sarah Sands, editor of Today.

image.thumb.png.6825fb3e7aeaf74137bfa8a03b5b9bb5.pngimage.png.0e514ae171c864eb4c0e23ed11bd4569.png

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51 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Boris should have put privatisation of the BBC in the Tory manifesto to guarantee an even greater majority.

It was a very clever move of Boris to decriminalise the non-payment of the licence fee. That way the BBC will die a long, lingering death. 

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If Labour fails to purge its Corbynist controllers, Britain could be left without a functioning Opposition”

Why are Labour finding it so difficult to accept why they lost? It’s easy - Corbyn, hard left Marxist ideas, anti British propaganda. open borders to all immigrants, lack of respect for our Queen and country and armed forces . . . . I could go on but that’s likely enough for now.

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You just voted for a PM and government that LIED to the Queen. How is that more respectful? I have no problem with you pointing out Labour's problems but cut out the friggin hypocrisy.

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12 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Mat Hancock suggests this is possible. We'll start off with 0 points but a win will mean that we don't lose 3 points and will also gain 3 points so that makes it 6 new points.

 

The new mathematics of Johnsonism😀

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1 minute ago, TCCANARY said:

Fixed it for you.

 

There was no need to, it stood on its own.

 

Edited by Van wink

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