The Positive Brexit Thread

[Yellow Fever 3,734]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

It's people like you who support the terrorist sympathiser Corbyn that should hold their head in shame. You allow these people into this country to kill innocent people. Anyone who votes Labour is voting for a friend of terrorists.

And its fanatics like you that help the ultra right wing thrive. I'm sorry but my two year old great granddaughter can reason more clearly and sensibly than you.

And its people like you who let Germans and Argentinians play football for Norwich after they killed our people is why people vote Tory? Course not. You need to just sit back and reason things out a bit instead of this maniacal hatred of Corbyn for all the wrong reasons.

You never mention his policies. Just that he supports terrorists. And that is why you have become an object of ridicule on here.

 

Yes - Despite many of our political differences (or is it EU positions?) most of us on here have the common decency and smarts to understand that today's events in London are not a political football (indeed apolitical) and all true politicians on all sides and all parties will, and indeed have, come together to denounce the perpetrators. Those that wish or indeed tried to make political capital out of it (and apparently some hideous tweets too) need to be exposed as the true monsters they are.

If that offends 'Return To Base'  (seems quite apt) or our local 'Guido Relay Bot' then so be it. It still needs saying.

The real heroes are the member of the public and security services that intervened. All or sympathies go the injured and sadly deceased.

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

Sorry Surfer but I find this very uncomfortable. People out innocently walking have been murdered for no good reason and their relatives will be desperately trying to come to terms with their grief. Going overboard! I really don't think so. How insensitive can you get?

The fact that the 12 students killed in California only resulted in a few column inches says plenty about US and should give you pause for thought.

not the time for political point scoring. 

People who’s relative die in a car crash will be going thorough the same emotions too. All I am saying is that events happen and we have to move on - which includes grief - and not allow these events to drive irrational outcomes. 

The fact that there is a third attack attempted in Paris now suggests at least a possibility these may be ISIS related. If that is true we can ask our visitor next week why it was a good idea to green light Turkey’s invasion of Northern Syria where these terrorists / jihadists were being held by the Kurds? 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

2 hours ago, Surfer said:

People who’s relative die in a car crash will be going thorough the same emotions too. All I am saying is that events happen and we have to move on - which includes grief - and not allow these events to drive irrational outcomes. 

The fact that there is a third attack attempted in Paris now suggests at least a possibility these may be ISIS related. If that is true we can ask our visitor next week why it was a good idea to green light Turkey’s invasion of Northern Syria where these terrorists / jihadists were being held by the Kurds? 

The UK attack was nothing to do with Turkey invading Northern Syria. The terrorist was out of jail on licence for terrorist offences. He was allowed back on our streets to wander freely among us. Good to see the shoot to kill policy of the police. That's why you don't see events like this happening in Warsaw or Budapest, but in London and Paris. I'm not surprised to see the lefties on here attempting to shut down discussion on here. When you support terrorist loving Jeremy Corbyn today is the result. You are complicit in that in the same way that Germans who voted for the National Socialist Party in the 1930s were complicit in everything that followed.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Rock The Boat

[Surfer 1,547]

23 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The UK attack was nothing to do with Turkey invading Northern Syria. The terrorist was out of jail on licence for terrorist offences. He was allowed back on our streets to wander freely among us.

When you support terrorist loving Jeremy Corbyn today is the result. You are complicit in that in the same way that Germans who voted for the National Socialist Party in the 1930s were complicit in everything that followed.

I didn't say that it was, I suggested that it could be. And we don't know the motivation behind The Hague and Paris incidents yet.

Your attack on Corbyn is beyond reason, which come as no surprise.... but it might be a good idea not to make public knowledge the stupidity of thought behind accusing people who disagree with you would be voting with the ****'s if they could. 

[Herman 9,700]

6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The UK attack was nothing to do with Turkey invading Northern Syria. The terrorist was out of jail on licence for terrorist offences. He was allowed back on our streets to wander freely among us. Good to see the shoot to kill policy of the police. That's why you don't see events like this happening in Warsaw or Budapest, but in London and Paris. I'm not surprised to see the lefties on here attempting to shut down discussion on here. When you support terrorist loving Jeremy Corbyn today is the result. You are complicit in that in the same way that Germans who voted for the National Socialist Party in the 1930s were complicit in everything that followed.

That's some serious **** about face thinking there RTB.

You cheer the far-right, authoritarian National Socialist style governments of Hungary and Poland while blaming all the Germans for the rise of National Sociaists in Germany. You cheer hate preachers like Robinson and Hopkins while decrying the hate preachers of Islam. You bemoan the fact that this "man" has been let out of jail while cheering the government that has been in charge of the justice system for nearly a decade. And who are the "lefties" trying to "shut down discussion"?

[Hairy Canary 667]

8 hours ago, Surfer said:

People who’s relative die in a car crash will be going thorough the same emotions too. All I am saying is that events happen and we have to move on - which includes grief - and not allow these events to drive irrational outcomes. 

The fact that there is a third attack attempted in Paris now suggests at least a possibility these may be ISIS related. If that is true we can ask our visitor next week why it was a good idea to green light Turkey’s invasion of Northern Syria where these terrorists / jihadists were being held by the Kurds? 

With respect Surfer I doubt that you or I know if relatives of people who die in car crashes are going through the same emotions or not. Being brutally murdered in the street for, presumably political reasons, by a person totally unknown to you is very different thing to come to terms with than an accident. Attributing reasons, almost tacit justification, to this man's actions, such as the invasion of Turkey is looking to shift the blame away.

It quite simply needs to be condemned, which you haven't done, and maybe understanding that phrases such as "going overboard" on the day that it happened are likely to be looked at as insensitive, at the least.

 

[A Load of Squit 5,113]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The terrorist was out of jail on licence for terrorist offences. He was allowed back on our streets to wander freely among us.

You need to ask Sajid Javid why he allowed a terrorist back on the streets.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

That's some serious **** about face thinking there RTB.

You cheer the far-right, authoritarian National Socialist style governments of Hungary and Poland while blaming all the Germans for the rise of National Sociaists in Germany. You cheer hate preachers like Robinson and Hopkins while decrying the hate preachers of Islam. You bemoan the fact that this "man" has been let out of jail while cheering the government that has been in charge of the justice system for nearly a decade. And who are the "lefties" trying to "shut down discussion"?

You need to tell us how many people Katie Hopkins has murdered. That's a terrible piece of whatabouttery to compare those who warn about the threat of Jihadism to the Jihadists. 

Usman Khan was sentenced to 16 years in 2013 and was described as extremely dangerous. It's about time that when terrorists get put in jail they are kept in jail. It's also a message that Jihadists and their families who went to the Middle East to fight are not allowed back in the country again. 

Labour policy is to open the borders and allow free movement of people into the country. Jeremy Corbyn is the avowed friend of terrorist groups such as Hama's and Hezbollah. If Labour forms a government then even more terrorists will enter the country which is why a vote for Labour makes you complicit in the terrorism that follows. 

[Herman 9,700]

Do you know what hate preachers do? They preach hate, they stir up division, they propagate a "them and us" sentiment amongst their followers. From Choudary to Hopkins they do not get their hands dirty but they wind up elements from their groups to a level where they become extremely dangerous. They are two sides of the same coin. Different skin colour, religion or whatever, but they do exctly the same thing.

And you making out that Labour voters are rsponsible for this terrible event isn't that far away from the sort of **** Hopkins is up to.

[T 190]

All extremist ideologies which seek to divide people based on race and religion are to be deplored be it Muslim extremists or brexiteers. They all have a dangerous warped view of the world. 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

Time for the death penalty to be introduced for terrorism

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,180]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Time for the death penalty to be introduced for terrorism

 

that won´t stop Islamic extremists, dying is part of it for them

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Time for the death penalty to be introduced for terrorism

That would work with suicide bombers.

You cannot and will not accept that the bloke was sentenced and released on the Tories watch. You really need therapy about your Corbyn fetish. It really is worrying. To try and blame yesterday's or any other events on Labour when Corbyn has never been in power to orchestrate British Foreign policy is inexcusable and just disgraceful. All the events go further than you really can understand.

[Surfer 1,547]

I apologize if I have offended anyone with my comments about not going overboard, but that is what I believe is happening. This is not “a major terror incident” which is the reason the BBC will apparently now allow the PM to appear in a weekend interview without committing to an Andrew Neil interview. If we are really interested in finding out about the government policies around monitored release and what went wrong here why not ask the Home Sec? 

Governments must focus on the big issues and as tragic as this event was, what we are doing in Syria, what we are doing about those Brits who went to fight in a Jihad, what we are doing about maintaining gun controls, whether we can control the spread of nuclear arms, the price of insulin and other life saving drugs, the state of our economy and reducing global warming are exponentially more likely to affect the number of lives at risk from “incidents” than inspecting our navel over what the police / prison service could have done to prevent this week’s knife attack.

The overboard I refer to is this will now become the platform for a “tough on crime” campaign to distract from debate on all those issues, with accusations of “open borders encourages more terrorists” when we all know it is a complete lie, one of the people who fought the attacker being a Polish chef. There are good and bad people all over the world, the policy must be to constrain the bad, demonizing people based on faith, race or geography is where political charlatans go. 

 

 

[Surfer 1,547]

New poll from BMG Research - 6 days ago Con 41 - Lab 28 today Con 39 - Lab 33 Again same pollster so likely same sampling error in both. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Britain's leading polling analyst Sir John Curtice is now mentioning a hung Parliament. He says the Tories are still just enough ahead to form a government but their lead is shrinking. And it is at the expense of the other parties as much as the Tories. Putting the chance of a second referendum back into the mix. LibDems are Greens will support that as they cannot form a majority and the SNP would barter with that arrangement.

[Herman 9,700]

Although I don't dislike it, the Libdems need to dump the revoke policy, if they can, but fully make a 2nd ref as their main aim. It's not popular amongst the electorate, Remain voters included.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

25 minutes ago, Herman said:

Although I don't dislike it, the Libdems need to dump the revoke policy, if they can, but fully make a 2nd ref as their main aim. It's not popular amongst the electorate, Remain voters included.

That does seem to be the case, which IMO confirms what I've always thought - that many UK voters are profoundly thick (Remain voters included) and don't have the slightest understanding of how our 'democracy' is supposed to work.

We are now three years on from a deeply flawed referendum and yet many people appear to feel that we are still bound to implement the result. This is utterly ridiculous.

Of course the Lib Dems are not going to form a majority government after this election - but if they stand on a manifesto commitment to scrap Brexit and against all the odds won the election then they would have every right to cancel Brexit. It would be the democratic thing to do because that is the way our system works.

I cannot see how anybody can object to this, it's comparable to saying the Tories shouldn't be allowed to campaign for tax cuts, or Labour to return public services to public ownership. If people don't like the policies then they vote for someone else, but if the majority elect a party to government (or of course if 35-40% elect the government which is what always happens under the UK system, no government has ever won a majority of the vote)  then they have a mandate (of sorts) for their policies.

Mind you, given the shower of sh*t on offer this time around, I'm still hoping that our bizarre FPTP system will deliver another hung Parliament.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Creative Midfielder

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

41 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Britain's leading polling analyst Sir John Curtice is now mentioning a hung Parliament. He says the Tories are still just enough ahead to form a government but their lead is shrinking. And it is at the expense of the other parties as much as the Tories. Putting the chance of a second referendum back into the mix. LibDems are Greens will support that as they cannot form a majority and the SNP would barter with that arrangement.

There has been recent evidence, some from polling and some anecdotal, that Labour Leavers in marginal or semi-marginal Labour-held seats are well above the national average (perhaps double) of those planning to switch to vote Tory to get Brexit done. Their argument is that in 2017 it wasn’t clear that you had to vote Tory to get Brexit, but now it is.

The implication is that Johnson could win enough Labour seats to get a majority even if the national figures suggested there would be a hung parliament.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

21 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's people like you who support the terrorist sympathiser Corbyn that should hold their head in shame. You allow these people into this country to kill innocent people. Anyone who votes Labour is voting for a friend of terrorists.

You're a vile piece of human excrement with the intelligence of a goose with brain damage; despite that, you're still cleverer than you are brave you pathetic specimen. 

Now go run off to Pete because someone on the Internet called you a c*nt, you c*nt. 

Unless you want to discuss it over a pint, but we both know that won't happen.

Just hire a hooker, better men than you have done so to get their end away. Getting rid of all your angst and bitterness by getting laid might make you a better person as opposed to the waste of oxygen you currently are. 

[Yellow Fever 3,734]

34 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That does seem to be the case, which IMO confirms what I've always thought - that many UK voters are profoundly thick (Remain voters included) and don't have the slightest understanding of how our 'democracy' is supposed to work.

We are now three years on from a deeply flawed referendum and yet many people appear to feel that we are still bound to implement the result. This is utterly ridiculous.

Of course the Lib Dems are not going to form a majority government after this election - but if they stand on a manifesto commitment to scrap Brexit and against all the odds won the election then they would have every right to cancel Brexit. It would be the democratic thing to do because that is the way our system works.

I cannot see how anybody can object to this, it's comparable to saying the Tories shouldn't be allowed to campaign for tax cuts, or Labour to return public services to public ownership. If people don't like the policies then they vote for someone else, but if the majority elect a party to government (or of course if 35-40% elect the government which is what always happens under the UK system, no government has ever won a majority of the vote)  then they have a mandate (of sorts) for their policies.

Mind you, given the shower of sh*t on offer this time around, I'm still hoping that our bizarre FPTP system will deliver another hung Parliament.

Cant argue with that.

I think both Labours and the Libdem Brexit position comes in for unfair criticism.

[Herman 9,700]

39 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That does seem to be the case, which IMO confirms what I've always thought - that many UK voters are profoundly thick (Remain voters included) and don't have the slightest understanding of how our 'democracy' is supposed to work.

We are now three years on from a deeply flawed referendum and yet many people appear to feel that we are still bound to implement the result. This is utterly ridiculous.

Of course the Lib Dems are not going to form a majority government after this election - but if they stand on a manifesto commitment to scrap Brexit and against all the odds won the election then they would have every right to cancel Brexit. It would be the democratic thing to do because that is the way our system works.

I cannot see how anybody can object to this, it's comparable to saying the Tories shouldn't be allowed to campaign for tax cuts, or Labour to return public services to public ownership. If people don't like the policies then they vote for someone else, but if the majority elect a party to government (or of course if 35-40% elect the government which is what always happens under the UK system, no government has ever won a majority of the vote)  then they have a mandate (of sorts) for their policies.

Mind you, given the shower of sh*t on offer this time around, I'm still hoping that our bizarre FPTP system will deliver another hung Parliament.

Therein lies the problem. I've heard many a time that we need, for democracies sake, to implement what people voted for. As I say, it's not just the headbanger idiots saying it. Some think it would be unfair to the people that did vote for Brexit. (We've been through it loads that it's not what people DID vote for, but hey-ho.)

The only way to get rid of this sentiment is to do a deal and put it to the people.

[Yellow Fever 3,734]

BMG poll apparently lead now cut to just 6%. Lots of dummies being spat out (and not just the ones on here).

[Herman 9,700]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Cant argue with that.

I think both Labours and the Libdem Brexit position comes in for unfair criticism.

Labour's policy is actually easy to understand now, but a lot of people still think it is complicated.

LibDems is very easy to understand and is very honest with no hidden extras.

Cons/BC is easy to understand if you don't look at hidden extras.

[Herman 9,700]

Dominic Raab's seat.😯

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Dominic Raab's seat.😯

 

Wot, no Greens

Looks good, though although if Raab clings on it will be another (of many I expect) example of Labour's stupidity in refusing to work with the other parties.

[ricardo 7,334]

51 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

BMG poll apparently lead now cut to just 6%. Lots of dummies being spat out (and not just the ones on here).

ComRes 43/33

Opinium 46/31

BMG    39/33

[Hairy Canary 667]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

ComRes 43/33

Opinium 46/31

BMG    39/33

Interesting that Opinium seem to show a higher Tory lead than many others and BMG a lower one.

[Herman 9,700]

@Creative Midfielder

I think it must be one of the areas where the greens have stood down for the remain alliance. And I hope, because the leaders ain't going to, that the grassroot labour groups do the right thing. (If you follow the link that does seem to be happening, in a small way.)

Edited November 30, 2019 by Herman

[ricardo 7,334]

6 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Interesting that Opinium seem to show a higher Tory lead than many others and BMG a lower one.

Remember there is a 3 percent margin of error in these polls

Look at the share not the lead, is what Peter Kellner always says.