The Positive Brexit Thread

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Straw clutching.

Did you miss a winking emoji from the end of that? Or were you, ricardo, rarely seen in a Brexit debate without his fist wrapped tightly around a bunch of straws, sincerely accusing me of clutching at straws?!

Edited October 16, 2019 by canarydan23

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

Just now, Van wink said:

Your comments seem pretty reasonable, but even with your "established 53.47 %," if that is in fact accurate, it would be far too narrow a margin to be able to predict any side winning a referendum, should there be another one. 

Just out of interest, in the event of parliament agreeing to a second referendum, do you think they would be able to agree on the questions?

I regard this as basic common sense (not you VW - quite sensible). If you are to have a referendum you have to vote in the affirmative for a defined outcome and plan - not as a catchall. 

Leaving the EU could be read as leave as the EU and join the USA. Leave the EU by deporting all Leavers and so on. Leave and do a Norway, EFTA and so on. It's completely open ended as to its meaning beyond 'Leave'.

So takes Johnson's (if it exists), May's deal or indeed No-Deal selected by Parliament and see if a majority will vote FOR IT as opposed to the status quo of Remain.

[Bill 1,788]

Before I depart for the afternoon - if only that reading mouse brain's lunacy is like an extended visit to Bedam I shall leave you with this BELOW and let you wonder if dear Bill is not right.... yet again

"DUP leader Arlene Foster dismissed reports of a breakthrough over the issue of consent on customs arrangements as “nonsense”.

It comes as Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay admitted the PM will send a letter requesting a delay if he fails to pass a deal by Saturday’s Benn Act deadline  2pm Weds

 

poor bigots ☹️

[Van wink 2,994]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I regard this as basic common sense (not you VW - quite sensible). If you are to have a referendum you have to vote in the affirmative for a defined outcome and plan - not as a catchall. 

Leaving the EU could be read as leave as the EU and join the USA. Leave the EU by deporting all Leavers and so on. Leave and do a Norway, EFTA and so on. It's completely open ended as to its meaning beyond 'Leave'.

So takes Johnson's (if it exists), May's deal or indeed No-Deal selected by Parliament and see if a majority will vote FOR IT as opposed to the status quo of Remain.

"So take Johnson's (if it exists), May's deal or indeed No-Deal selected by Parliament and see if a majority will vote FOR IT as opposed to the status quo of Remain."

Absolutely, those would seem to be the range of options, but the question I was interested in is presuably if parliament does get a majority for a referendum then it will have to agree to the question/s to be asked. On a straight vote taking it question by question i doubt there would be a majority for any particular one. Presumably some sort of system where options are voted on round by round with the least popular rejected each time would eventually deliver a result.

Of course there is also the preliminary question about should remain even be on the ballot paper, if there is a majority for a referendum in the house then I guess that would be dealt with pretty swiftly.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Bill wrote

Before I depart for the afternoon - if only that reading mouse brain's lunacy is like an extended visit to Bedam I shall leave you with this BELOW and let you wonder if dear Bill is not right.... yet again

He always picks me up so here's one for him - it's not Bedam I believe you meant Bedlam 😉

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

apart from you who told us all that you voted for a 'soft' brexit

which suggesr there was more than one brexit on offer

 

I also think suggesr is suggests

Edited October 16, 2019 by SwindonCanary

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

12 minutes ago, Van wink said:

"So take Johnson's (if it exists), May's deal or indeed No-Deal selected by Parliament and see if a majority will vote FOR IT as opposed to the status quo of Remain."

Absolutely, those would seem to be the range of options, but the question I was interested in is presuably if parliament does get a majority for a referendum then it will have to agree to the question/s to be asked. On a straight vote taking it question by question i doubt there would be a majority for any particular one. Presumably some sort of system where options are voted on round by round with the least popular rejected each time would eventually deliver a result.

Of course there is also the preliminary question about should remain even be on the ballot paper, if there is a majority for a referendum in the house then I guess that would be dealt with pretty swiftly.

Yes it a little messy but that's the fault of the original idiotic question. As Boris himself noted before the ref. it should of been a 2 stage process. As ever though the 'default' option has to be Remain or 'do nothing'.  

First - Any Question has to be on a deliverable outcome (no flying saucers, unicorns but a deal that can be delivered). That rules out some cake and eat it scenarios - and must solve the NI conundrum.

Presently that would only leave Mays deal, no-deal (that breaks the GFA) and various softer forms known to be acceptable to the EU. Norway, EFTA, SM + CU etc.  Parliament (our representatives not delegates) should decide (free vote) on which one it prefers.

Place that before the people vs Remain.

For what it's worth I would suggest prior to the 2016 vote most Leavers would of been more than happy with a softer Brexit and just after the vote most Remainers would of accepted that!  Sadly the result was hijacked by clearly incompetent extremists.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Yellow Fever

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

Boris's Letter.

I wonder if he'll have to use that special pen from the Harry Potter  film - 'I must not tell lies'

[ricardo 7,381]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Boris's Letter.

I wonder if he'll have to use that special pen from the Harry Potter  film - 'I must not tell lies'

Bill is writing it for him.

All part of his Pro Bono work😀

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes it a little messy but that's the fault of the original idiotic question. As Boris himself noted before the ref. it should of been a 2 stage process. As ever though the 'default' option has to be Remain or 'do nothing'.  

First - Any Question has to be on a deliverable outcome (no flying saucers, unicorns but a deal that can be delivered). That rules out some cake and eat it scenarios - and must solve the NI conundrum.

Presently that would only leave Mays deal, no-deal (that breaks the GFA) and various softer forms known to be acceptable to the EU. Norway, EFTA, SM + CU etc.  Parliament (our representatives not delegates) should decide (free vote) on which one it prefers.

Place that before the people vs Remain.

For what it's worth I would suggest prior to the 2016 vote most Leavers would of been more than happy with a softer Brexit and just after the vote most Remainers would of accepted that!  Sadly the result was hijacked by clearly incompetent extremists.

Absolutely right, I voted leave and my desire was for a soft Brexit, my view was retain the trading relationship but move away from the political integration, and "ever closer union"

 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Boris's Letter.

I wonder if he'll have to use that special pen from the Harry Potter  film - 'I must not tell lies'

Or maybe invisible ink, does the Benn Act require visible ink to be used, this may be the loophole, the one that nobody can actually tell us what it is.

The letter would be like Black Rod entering parliament with a piece of paper with nothing written on it!

Edited October 16, 2019 by Van wink

[Surfer 1,547]

For a political party (or company) set up to promote just one policy - Brexit - the BP leaders who have never been shy of any media attention over the past few years, are being awfully quiet? 
 

Why?
 

Why are the BBC who wanted to get Nigel Farage’s opinion ad nauseam before, not chasing him down? Surely the most influential man in British politics has a view on these negotiations - don’t we deserve to hear him speak? 

[Herman 9,754]

We'll hear him speak at his trial, hopefully. 

[ricardo 7,381]

[Herman 9,754]

2017 Ricardo. A lot of **** has floated under the bridge since then. 

[ricardo 7,381]

More good news Herman

MSE News

 

1. MoneySavingExpert.com
2. News
3. 2019
4. October
5. State pensions to rise by 3.9%

State pensions to rise by 3.9%

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

More lies, do you ever stop ?

The HoP is a building it cannot ennact legislation,

The MPs who can did not say what you are claiming.

The referendum was only ADVICE to a different group of MPs, a different government and a different PM.

If you were too stupid to not see through the lies of Farage, Ress-Mogg and Johnson then more fool you - and stop baiming others for your own stu[idty

You understand nothing. Just parrot what you've been told. 

[Bill 1,788]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Boris's Letter.

I wonder if he'll have to use that special pen from the Harry Potter  film - 'I must not tell lies'

eh ?

the letter has already been drafted, his role is merely to sign it in his position as PM

if he doesn't he will be up in court and before that there will be a court order instructing an appointee to sign and deliver it

so the real question is, for those who have a clue, is what have Remain and the EU agreed for the next stage ?

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

You understand nothing. Just parrot what you've been told. 

oh dear, how come 'they' don't tell you

or virtually everyone else who also have been consistently wrong ?

 

ps been up the A11 recently hand crank ? 😆

[Herman 9,754]

22 minutes ago, ricardo said:

More good news Herman

MSE News

 

1. MoneySavingExpert.com
2. News
3. 2019
4. October
5. State pensions to rise by 3.9%

State pensions to rise by 3.9%

 

 

 

Feckin' boomers. The only decent thing they did was join up with Europe.......

[Bill 1,788]

Farages Fusiliers are already gearing up for a protest

Edited October 16, 2019 by Bill

[Surfer 1,547]

39 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Well if that is still true, no problem holding a confirmatory referendum then eh? 

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

3 hours ago, ThorpeCanary said:

In my opinion your analogy doesn't work because in that example you and anyone in that taxi with you will want to head to that same destination, you might disagree one which is the best route but overall you are all in agreement of where that taxi should take you.

That can't be said of the 52%. According to the poll Swindon just posted only 20% want no deal? What % of those who want a deal and perhaps voted for Brexit believing they would get one would vote for No deal vs Remain?

For me an analogy would be theres a group of 10 at a club who just took a simple binary vote on "Do we leave this club" 6 vote yes and the decision is made. Only then do we realise of those six, three wish to go to another club, 1 (woops) want to go home and the other 2 want to go for food. You're saying that for the original 4 who wished to stay it's tough luck, they were outvoted and now we follow the 3 to the other club. Doesn't work for me.

Well that analogy has a problem because all six can leave the club and the result is achieved. After that they can all go their own ways quite happily. The other four can stay in the old club. 

My taxi analogy is better because if you had four in the taxi all offering different suggestions of route to take then the best solution is to leave it up to the driver as he is in the best position to deliver you all to the same destination, which is leave

Edited October 16, 2019 by Rock The Boat

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I regard this as basic common sense (not you VW - quite sensible). If you are to have a referendum you have to vote in the affirmative for a defined outcome and plan - not as a catchall. 

Leaving the EU could be read as leave as the EU and join the USA. Leave the EU by deporting all Leavers and so on. Leave and do a Norway, EFTA and so on. It's completely open ended as to its meaning beyond 'Leave'.

So takes Johnson's (if it exists), May's deal or indeed No-Deal selected by Parliament and see if a majority will vote FOR IT as opposed to the status quo of Remain.

Remain is just as open-ended. As I have mentioned in another post, there will be people who want to Remain and join the Euro, people who want to Remain but opt out of fisheries, others who want to Remain but not sign up for a European defence force. The EU is a work in progress, there is no status quo to join as the organisation is constantly evolving so any referendum has to take into account those possibilities as well

[Herman 9,754]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Remain is just as open-ended. As I have mentioned in another post, there will be people who want to Remain and join the Euro, people who want to Remain but opt out of fisheries, others who want to Remain but not sign up for a European defence force. The EU is a work in progress, there is no status quo to join as the organisation is constantly evolving so any referendum has to take into account those possibilities as well

No it doesn't. Remain is simply to stay in the EU. Anything that comes along will be dealt with at the time. Just more dishonest muddying of the waters.

[Herman 9,754]

"Previous deals negotiated by Boris Johnson include: - £50 million for a non-existent bridge. - £300 million for a fleet of buses that doubled as saunas. - A stadium conversion which cost taxpayers £20 million a year. - Three unused water cannon which had to be sold for scrap." Adam Bienkov.

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

26 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Well if that is still true, no problem holding a confirmatory referendum then eh? 

Leaving was confirmed in 2016. And what happened to the idea that parliament is sovereign that so many were claiming a couple of weeks ago? Or does a second referendum overide parliament?

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

No it doesn't. Remain is simply to stay in the EU. Anything that comes along will be dealt with at the time. Just more dishonest muddying of the waters.

And if I said anything that comes along with Brexit can be dealt with at the time you'd be frothing at the mouth. Your response is a cop-out, refusing to look into the future. 

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

"Previous deals negotiated by Boris Johnson include: - £50 million for a non-existent bridge. - £300 million for a fleet of buses that doubled as saunas. - A stadium conversion which cost taxpayers £20 million a year. - Three unused water cannon which had to be sold for scrap." Adam Bienkov.

Not only did Boris achieve the unimaginable of getting elected by the lefty London elite as Mayor, the good people of that city, taking into account his performance as mayor then went in to elect him for a second term

I think Londoners must have known a bit more than you 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Rock The Boat

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

And if I said anything that comes along with Brexit can be dealt with at the time you'd be frothing at the mouth. Your response is a cop-out, refusing to look into the future. 

RTB - Apart from the obvious facts of our vetoes - and seats at the the table in the EU plus a leading role - it is clearly better the devil you know. 

As a small isolated country outside the EU we will simply be blown around by external events - we have no counter weight to the USA or China - even India who will simply view us as an also ran in trade wars. You see it already - want a trade deal with India -  the want much freer work access or even near free movement (is that 1Bn people?).  The USA wants to discuss cheap food imports and so on (and it appears already don't respect our traffic laws).

Your analogy simply doesn't hold up.