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The Positive Brexit Thread

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19 minutes ago, Herman said:

I've mentioned the book before in respect to the NHS, but Truss was another of the authors of Brittania Unchained, alongside Raab, Patel, Skidmore and Kwarteng. I'll leave up the top reviews from Amazon to show you who and how long this has been planned. They were not expecting to win Brexit but they are now using it to their full advantage and the British have walked straight into it.

"All of the five free-market Thatcherites that contributed to 'Britannia Unchained'(2012) now have key roles in an extremely rightwing, hard Brexit, Boris Johnson government elected on December 12, 2019 with an 80-seat majority largely contributed by the English electorate.
It's terrifying to contemplate this group of ideological, economic illiterates in power for another 5 years determined to make the rich even richer and the poor even poorer." Jazzrook

"The best things about this book are definitely the title and the illustration on the cover of Britannia shielding herself from the world. I wish Dominic Raab, Priti Patel, Kwasi Karteng, Chris Skidmore and Liz Truss had been more open about who wrote which chapter. (I guess Priti penned the one on Israel. But whose proofreading let all those typos through?) Anyway, since this 116 page, 6 chapter volume is talked up as the blueprint for post Brexit Britain, I thought I should read it. Apparently the UK needs: the banks of Canada, the geekish quality of tech people from India, the work ethic of Singaporeans, the optimism of Brazilians, and the Research and Development capabilities of Israel in order to get on. Coupled with these qualities from around the world, the authors argue for large-scale state deregulation and elimination of intrusive protections of workers and the environment, more tolerance for bankrupt companies, and less government support for the ill, the old, and the unemployed. They suggest it's good for parents to pay for extra maths and science tuition for their children, and they appear to condemn popular celebrity culture in Britain, too. There are 15 pages of notes on the chapters, along with a four page bibliography and an eight page index. This brings the total number of pages up to 144. With a cover price of 15.99, that means just over 11 pence per page. For what it's worth, I'd suggest buying it second hand, if at all." Bill Bowler.

Thing is Britania Unchained was really as far as their thinking went. No one could anticipate just how incompetant and ideological this bunch could be. There is no strategy, no plan and no competance in the day to day manaagement that gives any hope that it won't get much much worse before it gets better.

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4 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

I’ve been having a Thursday night Zoom meeting with my friends, including a recently retired civil servant-I’ll be quizzing him on this tonight.

My friend told us to tonight that he once had to tell Theresa May that she couldn’t shut down Met Police training because there was no primary legislation that allowed her to do so.

When I asked him about the lowering of food standards and their previous promises not to do so, he thinks that the Government have seen Trump getting way with lying to the American public so they think they can do it here.

Truly very worrying times.

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17 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

When I asked him about the lowering of food standards and their previous promises not to do so, he thinks that the Government have seen Trump getting way with lying to the American public so they think they can do it here.

Truly very worrying times.

Starmer will latch onto this. The trust tide has turned and the press will be outraged. Those Red Wall Tories are very vulnerable and they know it. They didn't come to Parliament to be shock troops for a bunch of public school educated extremists - they have to live in the real world. Boris will want to drive a quick deal at almost any price, but if it looks like Trump is going be defeated in November then Congress will not ratify it, they'll wait until Feb next year for the new President Biden to oversea any new FTA proposal. 

 

And currently Trump is down by an 11% margin to Biden. A long way to go before November, but Trump is already spending money to defend his position in States that should be a lock, even in Texas he's only up by 1%.

That's not sat say he won't win / he can't win. But he's extremely vulnerable and although he'll want an FTA as badly as Boris, Congress is in no hurry to do either of them a favour, especially if the Irish raise any objections. 

 

Edited by Surfer
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22 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Not good-I hope someone who knows what they’re doing starts a Change.org petition about this 👍👍👍

Although if the products are labelled then you can avoid stuff like this.

The NFU have a petition going for food standards. About half a million so far. It's on their twitter feed or I'll post the link later. 

https://www.countrysideonline.co.uk/back-british-farming/back-british-farming-our-latest-activity/food-standards-petition/

Edited by Herman
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And now we have word that "no tariffs" will be abandoned. i.e everyone in the UK can pay more in order to allow businesses in the UK to treat their employees and the environment as the Tories see fit and America can run rough shod over the UK economy. 

At what point does the Government get held to account for fraudulent representation of its policy?

 

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It shpuld be glaringly obvious to anyone who wants to see

that Johnson agreed to all manner of stuff with the EU so as to push through a deal and so  go into an election claiming that he would get brexit done.

Unfortunately for the not too bright who couldn't see this the time to honour those agreements has come.

Whereby fatboy and his fellow shysters are now trying to play it that it is the EU not willing to negotiate ie wanting to stick to what was agreed

The lies about no border between NI and Britain, followed by the backtracking on the promise about chlorinated chicken should tell even the dimmest what they need to know.

You were lied to on a grand scale. It is, as you were told by us. It won't happen because it cannot happen Both the EU and WTO have their rules that the UK was part of making.

They knew this when they embarked on this deceit. All we can hope for from brexiteers is some shame for fcking up the country for the rest of us...who will be the ones to have to sort it out.

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

The NFU have a petition going for food standards. About half a million so far. It's on their twitter feed or I'll post the link later. 

The worst case scenario is agreement to ban "country of origin" labeling as America is demanding. It would mean that American product can come into the UK and then be repackaged for export into the EU, bypassing the EU's food safety and quality checks.

Perhaps via Northern Ireland as an example. The EU quite rightly is not going to allow that to happen, and the result will be all UK foods will have to be assumed to be non-compliant and need to be individually checked. So it's pretty much goodbye to British lamb, cheese, wine, shellfish exports to the EU - because we won't have the customs manpower for self-certification, and nor will the EU trust our word given everything Boris has said to them since becoming PM has been a lie.

This is why the absolute core issues remain truth and honour. You don't lie and your word is your bond. It's the very essence of British self respect and identity and we need to get it back. Hopefully Starmer and the Red Wall Tories will bring these guys to heel. And perhaps the Courts. 

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Matthew Parris on top form.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/things-are-about-to-get-even-worse-for-boris-johnson-q08g30mbx

"You’ll have heard the mutterings. “Boris hasn’t fully recovered yet”, “not firing on all cylinders”, “no strategic direction”, “can’t concentrate”, “lost his bounce . . . ” Well he’s certainly lost his bounce. But as for all those other whispers about impaired judgment, they’re nonsense. He never had any judgment or strategic vision. His powers of concentration have always been weak. There never was a golden age of Boris Johnson, never was this fabled creature of whom we now see only a poor shadow. Mr Johnson was only ever a shallow opportunist with a minor talent to amuse.

No after-dinner speeches now. What at least he does realise is that this is not a time when his skills as a self-parodying light entertainer are called for. Sadly though, he doesn’t have any other skills. He broke into Downing Street by clambering up a drainpipe called Brexit and he never fully believed in that foolish endeavour, as the more deeply-rooted Brexiteers always knew."

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It really is depressing now we have the leadership we do both the US and UK @Herman I believe even Brexiters in government certainly can see their leader much more clearly, because he gives himself away in his select committee answers and in the chamber with all his er's and imprecision. Yet, these are not normal times because so much is at stake. So much of this country I fear will be lost. Sold off for what? (rhetorical....doesn't require an answer of course).

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6 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Cheers for that Herman 👍 

Ditto

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17 minutes ago, Herman said:

Matthew Parris on top form.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/things-are-about-to-get-even-worse-for-boris-johnson-q08g30mbx

"You’ll have heard the mutterings. “Boris hasn’t fully recovered yet”, “not firing on all cylinders”, “no strategic direction”, “can’t concentrate”, “lost his bounce . . . ” Well he’s certainly lost his bounce. But as for all those other whispers about impaired judgment, they’re nonsense. He never had any judgment or strategic vision. His powers of concentration have always been weak. There never was a golden age of Boris Johnson, never was this fabled creature of whom we now see only a poor shadow. Mr Johnson was only ever a shallow opportunist with a minor talent to amuse.

No after-dinner speeches now. What at least he does realise is that this is not a time when his skills as a self-parodying light entertainer are called for. Sadly though, he doesn’t have any other skills. He broke into Downing Street by clambering up a drainpipe called Brexit and he never fully believed in that foolish endeavour, as the more deeply-rooted Brexiteers always knew."

He hasn't changed, this is what he was like in 1982. You can bet that his dad did nothing about this.

Image

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37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It really is depressing now we have the leadership we do both the US and UK @Herman I believe even Brexiters in government certainly can see their leader much more clearly, because he gives himself away in his select committee answers and in the chamber with all his er's and imprecision. Yet, these are not normal times because so much is at stake. So much of this country I fear will be lost. Sold off for what? (rhetorical....doesn't require an answer of course).

For the life of me I will never understand what people thought they were going to get with these two. All the evidence was there that proved they were nogoodniks yet they cheered and still cheer for them. Human behaviour is bizarre.

 

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10 minutes ago, Herman said:

For the life of me I will never understand what people thought they were going to get with these two. All the evidence was there that proved they were nogoodniks yet they cheered and still cheer for them. Human behaviour is bizarre.

 

I suspect one factor is that the two in question have an unerring sense of themselves and supreme self-confidence (one who wanted to be a 'world king' and the other told he was a 'killer') ....and this plays strongly to parts of the collective psyche.

Somehow, what we feel or sense we don't own, we may find in another. Like the recent Bible photo op, it's symbolic. By giving our allegiance to something powerful or someone powerful, we give ourselves legitimacy.

The answer, of course, is to find ourselves / accept ourselves. And that is hard work (but worthwhile work).

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

For the life of me I will never understand what people thought they were going to get with these two. All the evidence was there that proved they were nogoodniks yet they cheered and still cheer for them. Human behaviour is bizarre.

 

The answer is in your question. "What people thought"

Generally, people dont 'THINK'.

That's why they can be so easilly led by a Pied Piper or manipulated by the likes of Cummings. Most don't even think even now.

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

The answer is in your question. "What people thought"

Generally, people dont 'THINK'.

That's why they can be so easilly led by a Pied Piper or manipulated by the likes of Cummings. Most don't even think even now.

Cummins yet again, yet no one mentions the social distancing of the protesters in London. (follow the leader )

image.jpeg.a4f0abbda47f9e4eda247594efe3222f.jpeg

 

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9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Yes - rather good.

I particularly like

"All of the Take Back Control guys are right there, in 10 Downing Street, and there is no other government, anywhere on Earth, that has shown itself so singularly incapable of taking control of anything."

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I do like Tom Peck. Like Marina Hyde and Matthew Parris he writes with humour but with a sincere underlying anger at what is happening.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

I do like Tom Peck. Like Marina Hyde and Matthew Parris he writes with humour but with a sincere underlying anger at what is happening.

Indeed, he is a milder version of both, more considered in his writing perhaps (Marina H and Matthew P have more entertainment value). 

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19 hours ago, Surfer said:

The worst case scenario is agreement to ban "country of origin" labeling as America is demanding. It would mean that American product can come into the UK and then be repackaged for export into the EU, bypassing the EU's food safety and quality checks.

Perhaps via Northern Ireland as an example. The EU quite rightly is not going to allow that to happen, and the result will be all UK foods will have to be assumed to be non-compliant and need to be individually checked. So it's pretty much goodbye to British lamb, cheese, wine, shellfish exports to the EU - because we won't have the customs manpower for self-certification, and nor will the EU trust our word given everything Boris has said to them since becoming PM has been a lie.

And the point of any free trade agreement with the EU means that if the UK agrees such a deal it would (I believe) have to off the same FTA to all other countries. As the UK would then be trading under WTO rules, and the 'most favoured nation' rule would apply ie what the UK offers to one it has to offer to all. Inside the EU that ruling is different. That's why the UK has enjoyed the best trading deals over the past decades.

So we still amble toward the cliff edge, with all warning eliciting the same ill-informed bleats that we are scare mongering. That the rules of the EU and the WTO are merely 'project fear' - and that those behind those are not lying.....apart from the NI/B border and chlorinated chicken and hormone injected beef.

As YF rightly states above , people don't think - and are then easily swayed by vacuous slogans.

Ask the average brexiteer what 'most favoured nation' means and what it's implications are. And you will be a pauper if you were to get a tenner for each half decent basic reply.

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24 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Cummins yet again, yet no one mentions the social distancing of the protesters in London. (follow the leader )

Back to brexit

"Similar deals between the EU and Canada have taken around 7 seven years, Which means to trade, the UK has to comply with two requirements

1 Have a set of schedules, which will have to be those of the EU. So until any deal is struck the UK follows EU rules and regulations - with no say on any when they change

2. The UK will have to abide by WTO rules. One being 'most favoured nation' which means whatever the UK offers one country it has to offer every other country. So to get the free trade deal with the EU it would have to offer the same free trade deal with EVERY other country - only they don't have to offer that to us"

Care to point out the inaccuracies in those two points ?

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Britain's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost said Friday that Britain remains "committed to a successful outcome" in talks with Brussels after little progress was made in the fourth round of crucial talks.

"Progress remains limited but our talks have been positive in tone. Negotiations will continue and we remain committed to a successful outcome," said Frost in London after the talks.

"We are close to reaching the limits of what we can achieve through the format of remote formal Rounds. If we are to make progress, it is clear that we must intensify and accelerate our work," he said.

May be you can sleep a little better now, instead of worrying !

Edited by SwindonCanary

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2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Britain's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost said Friday that Britain remains "committed to a successful outcome" in talks with Brussels after little progress was made in the fourth round of crucial talks.

"Progress remains limited but our talks have been positive in tone. Negotiations will continue and we remain committed to a successful outcome," said Frost in London after the talks.

"We are close to reaching the limits of what we can achieve through the format of remote formal Rounds. If we are to make progress, it is clear that we must intensify and accelerate our work," he said.

May be you can sleep a little better now, instead of worrying !

So, once again you demonstrate you don't understand any of this - so post up some meaningless waffle instead

Now why not have a read up on WTO rules and then come back and refute what myself and others have posted above ?

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This is a brexit thread, you half witted racist

and here is the rule that scuppers your 'trade deals nonsense

"Under the WTO agreements, countries cannot normally discriminate between their trading partners. Grant someone a special favour (such as a lower customs duty rate for one of their products) and you have to do the same for all other WTO members."

 

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4 minutes ago, Bill said:

So, once again you demonstrate you don't understand any of this - so post up some meaningless waffle instead

Now why not have a read up on WTO rules and then come back and refute what myself and others have posted above ?

because it will not go to WTO Rules !  Don't refute it, coz' you are no good at predicting ! 

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1 minute ago, SwindonCanary said:

because it will not go to WTO Rules !  Don't refute it, coz' you are no good at predicting ! 

oh dear

you really are that stupid

once the transition period is over...however long

the UK will be trading on WTO rules, as it is either in the EU

or out, so WTO rules !

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