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The Brexit Thread

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Posted (edited)
On 31/12/2019 at 12:08, Jools said:

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ūüėé

When the Pound was equal to $1.65 was that a 65% premium? Just trying to understand the level of economic idiocy here. It never was 1 Pound = 1 Dollar = 1 Euro - so please show me where this "premium" has come from - instead it seems to be is trading at about a  20% discount over historical levels. 

Edited by Surfer

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And here is the first crisis for the Prime Minister to manage - and it's not a Brexit one. It is a choice of whether to go to war in support of Donald Trump. 

Iranian spokesperson: ‚ÄúThe US' act of international terrorism, targeting & assassinating General Soleimani ... is extremely dangerous & a foolish escalation. The US bears responsibility for all consequences of its rogue adventurism.‚ÄĚ

US¬†former V.P¬†Joe Biden statement on the killing of Qassem Soleimani : ‚ÄúPresident Trump just tossed a stick of dynamite into a tinderbox, and he owes the American people an explanation of the strategy and plan to keep safe our troops and embassy personnel, our people and our interests‚ÄĚ

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10 hours ago, Jools said:

Swindon, I've suspected for some time that you may be a Remainiac alter ego acting as a Brexiteer; a kind of foil for Remainiacs to have a bash at, because you tend to set yourself up a lot with obvious mistakes.

Terribly unfair to single out Swindon. On that 'obvious-mistake' basis every supposed Brexiter here must be a closet Remainer.

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Is Dominic Cummings the thick person's idea of a what a genius is?

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4 hours ago, Surfer said:

When the Pound was equal to $1.65 was that a 65% premium? Just trying to understand the level of economic idiocy here. It never was 1 Pound = 1 Dollar = 1 Euro - so please show me where this "premium" has come from - instead it seems to be is trading at about a  20% discount over historical levels. 

Robert Kimbell is a Brexit fanatic, Ukipper and Twitter celebrity. He's regularly lauded as an economics expert by the hard right, but in this article I'm going to expose the cynical cherry-picking trick he keeps using to create utterly misleading EU-bad narratives.

A quick browse through Kimbell's Twitter feed reveals his extreme Brexit bias, with links to fanatically right-wing Brexit propaganda sites like Westmonster and Brexit Central strewn amongst links to the pro-Brexit right-wing corporate media (Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, S*n) and Retweets of numerous hard-Brexit celebrities and commentators.

 

Kimbell.png

Kimbell's favourite Twitter trick is to pick a country in the EU that has fallen down the global GDP ranking a little bit since their entry to the EU, and then compare them to a random country from the developing world that has risen slightly in the global GDP ranking over the same period (see screenshots).

Beware of crude GDP figures

Anyone with a bit of basic economic nous understands that relying on crude GDP figures is a surefire way of creating misleading economic narratives.

Take the talk of the so-called Tory "economic recovery" between 2010-2015 that helped them win their unexpected majority at the 2015 General Election.

It is true that the UK's GDP grew a bit between 2010 and 2015, but what the Tories omitted to mention was that nearly all of that economic growth was generated by the rising population caused by Theresa May's all-time record breaking increases in the net immigration rate.

Between 2010 and 2015 our economy was only really growing because of the all-time high levels of immigration, with the amount of economic activity per person (GDP per capita) remaining well below the level it was before the economic crisis.

Reworking the crude GDP con for Brexiteering

Kimbell's approach is that if the Tories could win a General Election by pushing a shockingly misleading crude GDP narrative, he can use the same trick to make the ongoing Brexit shambles look like a fantastic idea.

Thus he's repeatedly used comparisons of crude GDP figures on Twitter to make EU countries look like failures compared to growing economies in the developing world.

I'll go through five examples of him using this trick to show how utterly misleading his little anti-EU propaganda tropes are.

Hungary vs Bangladesh

Since Hungary joined the EU in 2004 it has fallen from 44th to 58th in the global GDP ranking. In the same time Bangladesh has risen from 57th to 46th.

What Kimbell has omitted to mention is that Bangladesh has a population of 163 million people (the 8th most populous country on earth), while Hungary has a population of 9.8 million (the 92nd most populous).

A look at the International Monetary Fund's GDP per capita figures reveal that Hungary is the 45th most prosperous country per person ($27,482), while Bangladesh is 139th ($3,891 per person).

Additionally, since 2004 the GDP per capita in Hungary has increased by over $4,000 per person (more than the entire current GDP per capita of Bangladesh), while GDP per capita in Bangladesh has increased by less than $1,400 per person.

The idea that Bangladesh is now surpassing Hungary thanks to the failure of the EU is based on a crude statistical trick that completely ignores the fact that the population of Bangladesh is over 16 times the size of Hungary, and has in fact grown by over 20 million (double the population of Hungary) since Hungary joined the EU just 13 years ago!

Luxembourg vs Oman

Since 1960 Luxembourg it has fallen from 55th to 76th in the global GDP ranking. In the same time Oman has risen from 97th to 75th.

What Kimbell has omitted to mention is that Oman has a population of 4.6 million people (the 125th most populous country on earth), while Luxembourg has a population of below 600,000 (the 166th most populous).

The question shouldn't be why has Luxemburg fallen behind Oman, but why has it taken Oman so long to catch up given their population is over seven times the size, and the large oil and natural gas reserves they've been exploiting for decades.

The International Monetary Fund's GDP per capita figures reveal that Luxembourg is the 2nd most prosperous country per person ($104,003), while Oman is 21st ($46,698 per person).

Omitting to mention the fact that Oman has a population seven times the size of Luxembourg, the fossil fuel bonanza that has fuelled Oman's climb up the GDP rankings, and the fact that the people of Luxembourg are actually the 2nd most prosperous on earth to create an EU-bad narrative are all indications of the lengths Brexiteers will go to in order to con people into supporting Brexit.

Austria vs Nigeria

Since Austria joined the EU in 1995 it has fallen from 21st to 28th in the global GDP ranking. In the same time Nigeria has risen from 57th to 27th.

Again Kimbell is using the same trick of ignoring population growth, ignoring GDP per capita, and ignoring a huge fossil fuel bonanza going on in the cherry-picked developing nation. Here are some of the stats.

Austria has a population of 8.8 million (the 96th most populous nation). Nigeria has a population of 193.5 million (the 7th most populous).

A look at the International Monetary Fund's GDP per capita figures reveal that Austria is the 19th most prosperous country per person ($48,005), while Nigeria is 126th ($5,942 per person).

Nigeria has a population over 20 times the size of Austria's, yet they've only just climbed to one place ahead of them in the crude GDP statistics, and the amount of economic activity per person in Nigeria is one eighth of the amount per person in Austria.

In fact, since 1995 the population of Nigeria has grown by 85 million people, so in order to surpass Austria by one place in the crude GDP rankings, Nigeria has had to increase its population by over 9 times the total population of Austria!

In the same period GDP per capita in Austria has grown by over $10,000 per person, an increase of almost double the current total GDP per capita in Nigeria!


The idea that wealthy Austria is somehow being held back by the EU because their economy has fallen one place behind a poverty stricken developing nation country with over 20x the population is exactly the kind of hopelessly delusional drivel that hard-right Brexiters thrive on.

Slovenia vs Angola


When Slovenia joined the EU in 2004 it had the 65th biggest economy, now it's 85th. In the same period Angola has risen from 81st to 63rd.

It's exactly the same trick again.

In 2005 (one year after Slovenia joined the EU) Angola had a population of 16.5 million, now it has a population of 28.4 million (48th in the world). In the same period the population of Slovenia has changed from 2.00 million to 2.06 million (146th).

One country has almost doubled its population in the period, whilst the other has remained almost completely static. Is it any wonder that a country which now has a population eight times the size of the other has edged above them in the crude GDP ranking?

A look at the much more informative GDP per capita rankings paints a very much less misleading picture. According the the IMF, Slovenia are 37th in the world at £32,085 per person, while Angola are 120th at $6,844 per person.

The effort to attack the EU by painting Slovenia as some kind of failing dump and Angola as a thriving success story based solely on crude GDP figures is clearly the work of a person who takes their audience as a pack of absolutely gullible idiots.

Malta vs Zambia


Kimbell asserts that Malta has fallen from 124 to 132 in the crude GDP rankings, while Zambia has climbed from 126 to 107.

Between 2004 and the present the population of Malta has increased slightly from 401,000 to 437,000. In the same period the population of Zambia has increased from 11.4 million to 16.4 million.

In 2004 Zambia had a population over 28 times the size of Malta, and now it has a population over 37 times the size of Malta. It's not a surprise that the Zambian economy is now bigger than the Maltese economy at all. What is surprising is that they were still behind the tiny island of Malta just 13 years ago.

Let's compare the GDP per capita of failing Malta and booming Zambia:

Zambia are 140th in the world with $3,880 in economic activity per person per year. Malta are 28th with $39,834.

Only the most agenda driven fanatic could try to paint wealthy and stable Malta as some kind of failing economic basket case compared to poverty stricken Zambia, which has less than a tenth of the economic activity per person as the former-British colony in the Mediterranean.

Beware of Brexiter statistics

I'm sure most of us remember the disgraceful £350 million for the NHS lies promoted by the Vote Leave mob, but it's still worth remembering that these same dishonest Brexiteers are still out there programming people with warped narratives, cherry-picked statistics, and downright lies in order to con them into continuing to support the hard-right anti-democratic Tory Brexit shambles.


The really sad thing is that the UK education system has failed so spectacularly that huge numbers of people have not been equipped with the critical thinking skills to even see through such crude and manipulative statistical cherry-picking.

What to do about people who have been let down by the education system and left with such weak critical thinking skills that they don't even question such ludicrously cherry-picked stats is a question for another time, but what to do about Robert Kimbell and his ilk is easy: Call them out on their shockingly deceptive idiot fodder whenever we see them spewing it.

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5 hours ago, Surfer said:

And here is the first crisis for the Prime Minister to manage - and it's not a Brexit one. It is a choice of whether to go to war in support of Donald Trump. 

Iranian spokesperson: ‚ÄúThe US' act of international terrorism, targeting & assassinating General Soleimani ... is extremely dangerous & a foolish escalation. The US bears responsibility for all consequences of its rogue adventurism.‚ÄĚ

US¬†former V.P¬†Joe Biden statement on the killing of Qassem Soleimani : ‚ÄúPresident Trump just tossed a stick of dynamite into a tinderbox, and he owes the American people an explanation of the strategy and plan to keep safe our troops and embassy personnel, our people and our interests‚ÄĚ

Just so we are clear, do you support the assassination of the Iranian terrorist mastermind or not?

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54 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Robert Kimbell is a Brexit fanatic, Ukipper and Twitter celebrity. He's regularly lauded as an economics expert by the hard right, but in this article I'm going to expose the cynical cherry-picking trick he keeps using to create utterly misleading EU-bad narratives.

A quick browse through Kimbell's Twitter feed reveals his extreme Brexit bias, with links to fanatically right-wing Brexit propaganda sites like Westmonster and Brexit Central strewn amongst links to the pro-Brexit right-wing corporate media (Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, S*n) and Retweets of numerous hard-Brexit celebrities and commentators.

 

Kimbell.png

Kimbell's favourite Twitter trick is to pick a country in the EU that has fallen down the global GDP ranking a little bit since their entry to the EU, and then compare them to a random country from the developing world that has risen slightly in the global GDP ranking over the same period (see screenshots).

Beware of crude GDP figures

Anyone with a bit of basic economic nous understands that relying on crude GDP figures is a surefire way of creating misleading economic narratives.

Take the talk of the so-called Tory "economic recovery" between 2010-2015 that helped them win their unexpected majority at the 2015 General Election.

It is true that the UK's GDP grew a bit between 2010 and 2015, but what the Tories omitted to mention was that nearly all of that economic growth was generated by the rising population caused by Theresa May's all-time record breaking increases in the net immigration rate.

Between 2010 and 2015 our economy was only really growing because of the all-time high levels of immigration, with the amount of economic activity per person (GDP per capita) remaining well below the level it was before the economic crisis.

Reworking the crude GDP con for Brexiteering

Kimbell's approach is that if the Tories could win a General Election by pushing a shockingly misleading crude GDP narrative, he can use the same trick to make the ongoing Brexit shambles look like a fantastic idea.

Thus he's repeatedly used comparisons of crude GDP figures on Twitter to make EU countries look like failures compared to growing economies in the developing world.

I'll go through five examples of him using this trick to show how utterly misleading his little anti-EU propaganda tropes are.

Hungary vs Bangladesh

Since Hungary joined the EU in 2004 it has fallen from 44th to 58th in the global GDP ranking. In the same time Bangladesh has risen from 57th to 46th.

What Kimbell has omitted to mention is that Bangladesh has a population of 163 million people (the 8th most populous country on earth), while Hungary has a population of 9.8 million (the 92nd most populous).

A look at the International Monetary Fund's GDP per capita figures reveal that Hungary is the 45th most prosperous country per person ($27,482), while Bangladesh is 139th ($3,891 per person).

Additionally, since 2004 the GDP per capita in Hungary has increased by over $4,000 per person (more than the entire current GDP per capita of Bangladesh), while GDP per capita in Bangladesh has increased by less than $1,400 per person.

The idea that Bangladesh is now surpassing Hungary thanks to the failure of the EU is based on a crude statistical trick that completely ignores the fact that the population of Bangladesh is over 16 times the size of Hungary, and has in fact grown by over 20 million (double the population of Hungary) since Hungary joined the EU just 13 years ago!

Luxembourg vs Oman

Since 1960 Luxembourg it has fallen from 55th to 76th in the global GDP ranking. In the same time Oman has risen from 97th to 75th.

What Kimbell has omitted to mention is that Oman has a population of 4.6 million people (the 125th most populous country on earth), while Luxembourg has a population of below 600,000 (the 166th most populous).

The question shouldn't be why has Luxemburg fallen behind Oman, but why has it taken Oman so long to catch up given their population is over seven times the size, and the large oil and natural gas reserves they've been exploiting for decades.

The International Monetary Fund's GDP per capita figures reveal that Luxembourg is the 2nd most prosperous country per person ($104,003), while Oman is 21st ($46,698 per person).

Omitting to mention the fact that Oman has a population seven times the size of Luxembourg, the fossil fuel bonanza that has fuelled Oman's climb up the GDP rankings, and the fact that the people of Luxembourg are actually the 2nd most prosperous on earth to create an EU-bad narrative are all indications of the lengths Brexiteers will go to in order to con people into supporting Brexit.

Austria vs Nigeria

Since Austria joined the EU in 1995 it has fallen from 21st to 28th in the global GDP ranking. In the same time Nigeria has risen from 57th to 27th.

Again Kimbell is using the same trick of ignoring population growth, ignoring GDP per capita, and ignoring a huge fossil fuel bonanza going on in the cherry-picked developing nation. Here are some of the stats.

Austria has a population of 8.8 million (the 96th most populous nation). Nigeria has a population of 193.5 million (the 7th most populous).

A look at the International Monetary Fund's GDP per capita figures reveal that Austria is the 19th most prosperous country per person ($48,005), while Nigeria is 126th ($5,942 per person).

Nigeria has a population over 20 times the size of Austria's, yet they've only just climbed to one place ahead of them in the crude GDP statistics, and the amount of economic activity per person in Nigeria is one eighth of the amount per person in Austria.

In fact, since 1995 the population of Nigeria has grown by 85 million people, so in order to surpass Austria by one place in the crude GDP rankings, Nigeria has had to increase its population by over 9 times the total population of Austria!

In the same period GDP per capita in Austria has grown by over $10,000 per person, an increase of almost double the current total GDP per capita in Nigeria!


The idea that wealthy Austria is somehow being held back by the EU because their economy has fallen one place behind a poverty stricken developing nation country with over 20x the population is exactly the kind of hopelessly delusional drivel that hard-right Brexiters thrive on.

Slovenia vs Angola


When Slovenia joined the EU in 2004 it had the 65th biggest economy, now it's 85th. In the same period Angola has risen from 81st to 63rd.

It's exactly the same trick again.

In 2005 (one year after Slovenia joined the EU) Angola had a population of 16.5 million, now it has a population of 28.4 million (48th in the world). In the same period the population of Slovenia has changed from 2.00 million to 2.06 million (146th).

One country has almost doubled its population in the period, whilst the other has remained almost completely static. Is it any wonder that a country which now has a population eight times the size of the other has edged above them in the crude GDP ranking?

A look at the much more informative GDP per capita rankings paints a very much less misleading picture. According the the IMF, Slovenia are 37th in the world at £32,085 per person, while Angola are 120th at $6,844 per person.

The effort to attack the EU by painting Slovenia as some kind of failing dump and Angola as a thriving success story based solely on crude GDP figures is clearly the work of a person who takes their audience as a pack of absolutely gullible idiots.

Malta vs Zambia


Kimbell asserts that Malta has fallen from 124 to 132 in the crude GDP rankings, while Zambia has climbed from 126 to 107.

Between 2004 and the present the population of Malta has increased slightly from 401,000 to 437,000. In the same period the population of Zambia has increased from 11.4 million to 16.4 million.

In 2004 Zambia had a population over 28 times the size of Malta, and now it has a population over 37 times the size of Malta. It's not a surprise that the Zambian economy is now bigger than the Maltese economy at all. What is surprising is that they were still behind the tiny island of Malta just 13 years ago.

Let's compare the GDP per capita of failing Malta and booming Zambia:

Zambia are 140th in the world with $3,880 in economic activity per person per year. Malta are 28th with $39,834.

Only the most agenda driven fanatic could try to paint wealthy and stable Malta as some kind of failing economic basket case compared to poverty stricken Zambia, which has less than a tenth of the economic activity per person as the former-British colony in the Mediterranean.

Beware of Brexiter statistics

I'm sure most of us remember the disgraceful £350 million for the NHS lies promoted by the Vote Leave mob, but it's still worth remembering that these same dishonest Brexiteers are still out there programming people with warped narratives, cherry-picked statistics, and downright lies in order to con them into continuing to support the hard-right anti-democratic Tory Brexit shambles.


The really sad thing is that the UK education system has failed so spectacularly that huge numbers of people have not been equipped with the critical thinking skills to even see through such crude and manipulative statistical cherry-picking.

What to do about people who have been let down by the education system and left with such weak critical thinking skills that they don't even question such ludicrously cherry-picked stats is a question for another time, but what to do about Robert Kimbell and his ilk is easy: Call them out on their shockingly deceptive idiot fodder whenever we see them spewing it.

So whichever way you look at it, the stark conclusion is that joining the EU is a bad economic choice for smaller countries. 

Thanks for clearing that up for us. 

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13 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Just so we are clear, do you support the assassination of the Iranian terrorist mastermind or not?

If it was a carefully planned and thought through mission that helped secure peace in a delicate and tumultous area of the world then I think most people, although not entirely comfortable, would probably support it.

Was it done like that?

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1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

So whichever way you look at it, the stark conclusion is that joining the EU is a bad economic choice for smaller countries. 

Thanks for clearing that up for us. 

Once again @Rock The Boat proves he doesn't understand the simplest of facts.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

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14 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Where do want to start - How about trade deals, medicines, nuclear, chemical, setting all those rules for agriculture, food standards, IPR, air safety, banking and so on. That's not even touching on the top level (or bottom level) functions of strategy, customs officers, border control. You can go look up all the agencies yourself i.e Euratom, EMA, ECHA, EASA - Not on idiot Twitter but on grown up websites.

All these functions need to be recreated and staffed i.e. duplicated.

Jobs for the boys and girls.

Unless of course you want to stay in some of them.....

More UK jobs.    Sounds good to me.

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19 hours ago, Herman said:

One day Mad Moyo will realise that our membership of the EU wasn't causing the country's problems. It'll be far too late though.

Unlimited and unchecked immigration adding 300K to the population annually putting enormous strain in infrastructure such as housing, NHS, schools, prisons, jobs and 20 Billion a year membership including associated costs (tariffs, fines, VAT etc).  90% of fishing given away by the CFP and agriculture stagnating due to the CAP.

Then of course the welfare cost........ unemployment, housing benefit, child allowance, tax credits etc

 

What a wonderful EU deal we had ..... LOL

Seriously.... we will save a fortune when we are out of the blood-sucking EU, and our fishing and agriculture industries will grow exponentially for years.

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8 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Unlimited and unchecked immigration adding 300K to the population annually putting enormous strain in infrastructure such as housing, NHS, schools, prisons, jobs and 20 Billion a year membership including associated costs (tariffs, fines, VAT etc).  90% of fishing given away by the CFP and agriculture stagnating due to the CAP.

Then of course the welfare cost........ unemployment, housing benefit, child allowance, tax credits etc

 

What a wonderful EU deal we had ..... LOL

Seriously.... we will save a fortune when we are out of the blood-sucking EU, and our fishing and agriculture industries will grow exponentially for years.

Jools! Here's another one.

Paul, go and stand in the corner with Swindo. ūüėÄ

 

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20 hours ago, BigFish said:

 

 

Good that we are debating the fundamentals of the economy, not so good it is done with such a lack of basic understanding. Firstly, there is a difference between an actual living wage and what the government calls the "living wage". The real living wage is £10.75 in London (£9.35 elsewhere), and across the country only applies to those over 24. If Johnson was serious he would apply the Living Wage at 18 and at a level that actually pays the living wage, not the laughable £8.20 for the under 25s and £8.72 otherwise.

Secondly @Van wink uses comparative metrics to argue that the numbers of low paid workers have fallen, rather than the absolute measures that demonstrate in-work poverty is rising along with the number of low wage jobs. Up from 13% to 18% according to the IFS over the last twenty five years.

Lastly @paul moy repeats the fallacy that increasing the income tax threshold specifically helps the low paid and to the tune of £1200. In fact many of the poor will not benefit because their earnings are less than the threshold already or that the corresponding reductions in in-work benefits increases their marginal tax rate. In fact it is higher rate taxpayers who benefit most by raising thresholds, which are very expensive measures for the Treasury.

What we can learn from this is Johnson will keep pumping out "good news stories" for the gullible to suck up and regurgitate (some on here). Johnson has a track record on this, what he doesn't have is a track record of successful delivery or intellectual thinking. By all means praise him on any benefits resulting from his actions but don't waste our time repeating what he says he is going to do because that will lead to widespread disappointment.

In work benefits are a major cost to the taxpayer of tens of billions. If they fall due to workers getting higher pay then that is a good thing and it may well be an objective of the Tories to increase pay to a level that greatly benefits the taxpayer while also increasing incentive to work, but at no cost overall to the worker.  All good IMO.

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15 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Where do want to start - How about trade deals, medicines, nuclear, chemical, setting all those rules for agriculture, food standards, IPR, air safety, banking and so on. That's not even touching on the top level (or bottom level) functions of strategy, customs officers, border control. You can go look up all the agencies yourself i.e Euratom, EMA, ECHA, EASA - Not on idiot Twitter but on grown up websites.

All these functions need to be recreated and staffed i.e. duplicated.

Jobs for the boys and girls.

Unless of course you want to stay in some of them.....

 

1 hour ago, paul moy said:

More UK jobs.    Sounds good to me.

So 1,000s more Civil Servant jobs to be created, new IT systems, new offices etc.

To be paid for how exactly @paul moy?

Yes, out of the famous NHS money from the bus, seems like Johnson will do what he did as London mayor and spaff that money up the wall.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

So 1,000s more Civil Servant jobs to be created, new IT systems, new offices etc.

To be paid for how exactly @paul moy?

Yes, out of the famous NHS money from the bus, seems like Johnson will do what he did as London mayor and spaff that money up the wall.

As we are no longer having our financial life blood sucked out of us by the EU, it's clear where the money can come from.  We have also almost cleared Liebores 160 Billion annual deficit and have 15 billion in foreign aid to reclaim annually.  The money-tree is truly flourishing free of decades of EU and Liebore waste.

Edited by paul moy
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Paul, are you aware of this Government policy? ūü§£

Johnson pledges tax cut for unicorn breeders

BORIS Johnson has vowed to slash taxes for Britain’s hard-pressed unicorn breeders.

The prime minister said the tax cut would create up to 20 million new jobs in the supernatural horse industry.

He told the Daily Telegraph: “Chinese billionaires are desperate to buy British unicorns, but our breeders can’t meet the demand because of EU rules on VAT and minimum unicorn width.

‚ÄúFree of these shackles the unicorn farms of Somerset and Wiltshire could soon be churning out thousands of magical horses which would then be vacuum packed and sent to the Far East via an 8000 mile-long bridge that I have designed myself.‚ÄĚ

He added: ‚ÄúIs there a more powerful advert for our country than a happy Chinese billionaire leaping into his swimming pool on the back of a British unicorn?‚ÄĚ

Mr Johnson believes that at £250m a unicorn Britain will become so wealthy that every British citizen will be able to buy a unicorn of their very own.

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15 minutes ago, Herman said:

Has anyone called HOUSE on Paul Moy bingo yet? 

I was waiting for 'EUSSR' and a prediction that UKIP/The Brexit Party would have a majority in Parliament.

 

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23 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The bush fires have been made worse by Green policy of not allowing homeowners and farmers to clear areas of land around their properties due to effect on flora and flora. Without having natural fire breaks not only have fires been allowed to spread faster but also provides extra fuel. 

IMG_20200102_144133.jpg

Where have you got this from?

The liberals/nationalists have been governing both NSW and the Australia for years, not Greens

Green policy supports hazard reduction burns https://greens.org.au/bushfires

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5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Just so we are clear, do you support the assassination of the Iranian terrorist mastermind or not?

My opinion and your opinion are irrelevant. What matter is opinions like this one - from the Prime Minister of Iraq (note, not Iran) 

Iraq PM Adil Abdul-Mahdi: ‚Äústrongly condemned the assassination‚Äú of ‚Äúthe two martyrs‚ÄĚ he says were great symbols in defeating ISIS. Calls the operation ‚Äúa flagrant violation of Iraqi sovereignty, a blatant attack on the dignity of the country and a dangerous escalation...‚ÄĚ

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So with all the wittering about the "formation of an EU army" and how that could drag the UK into a war without our veto on that....

.... you guys still put your absolute faith into a new trade deal with the US, who apparently couldn't even be bothered to tell our PM about what they were going to do in Iraq - thus potentially dragging the UK into another Middle East war? That's O.K for you?. O.K. 

The fact the US didn't tell  @BorisJohnson in advance about the drone strike is pretty insulting given the implications for British troops in Iraq. Hundreds of UK forces are in same bases as Americans.

p.s it's been reported the President didn't tell the leadership of the House or Senate either, but did did tell his favorite Senator Lindsay Graham. 

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Posted (edited)

The entire Middle East cr*p is about two powerful regional states fighting for influence. Saudi Arabia (Sunni) and Iran (Shia). Just like the Thirty Years war with (Protestant) northern German states and (Catholic) southern German states. We in the West have picked a "good guy" who is Saudi Arabia, and a "bad guy" who is Iran. Iran sees it's own territory plus Iraq and Syria as the former territory of imperial Persia, who only lost power to Alexander the Great and then again later to the Arabs. The Saudis are proud protectors of Mecca and the Kabba, but also major sponsors of the Wahhabi radical puritan sect that inspired Bin Laden and also ISIS. 

So the main point is the West needs stay the hell out of there, or indeed it will be hell on earth for those in the region. Picking sides is stupid, as the President is about to find out. Iraq was a picnic, until it wasn't when Bush's team decided to de-mobilize the Iraqi army (without pay) leading to the insurgency that continues to this day.

And any war with Iran will not be "easy" or "quick". War never is. 

Edited by Surfer

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Where have you got this from?

The liberals/nationalists have been governing both NSW and the Australia for years, not Greens

Green policy supports hazard reduction burns https://greens.org.au/bushfires

Is there any passing stick that @RTB won't firmly grab the wrong end of ???¬†¬†¬† ūü§£ūü§£

Edited by Creative Midfielder
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4 hours ago, BigFish said:

 

So 1,000s more Civil Servant jobs to be created, new IT systems, new offices etc.

To be paid for how exactly @paul moy?

Yes, out of the famous NHS money from the bus, seems like Johnson will do what he did as London mayor and spaff that money up the wall.

Lots of EU citizens returning home means big savings on benefits payments. What's not to like/

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2 hours ago, Surfer said:

My opinion and your opinion are irrelevant. What matter is opinions like this one - from the Prime Minister of Iraq (note, not Iran) 

Iraq PM Adil Abdul-Mahdi: ‚Äústrongly condemned the assassination‚Äú of ‚Äúthe two martyrs‚ÄĚ he says were great symbols in defeating ISIS. Calls the operation ‚Äúa flagrant violation of Iraqi sovereignty, a blatant attack on the dignity of the country and a dangerous escalation...‚ÄĚ

I thought you, Surfer, would have the courage to say whether or not you supported Trump's actions to take out this terrorist leader rather than hide behind a quote from the Iragi PM. For the record I think the best thing Barak Obama ever did was to order the killing of Osama Bin Laden.

 

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4 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Lots of EU citizens returning home means big savings on benefits payments. What's not to like/

Where’s your evidence that lots of EU citizens will go home?

They won’t just magically disappear on 31 January.

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EU citizens have brought far more into the exchequor than taken out. It was a xenophobic myth that they were taking out loads of benefits. It worked on the free of thinking though, sadly.

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