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The Brexit Thread

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3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Why does broadband need to be free for everyone?

For the record, I'm not 100% sure I agree with the policy to be honest, but just to play devil's advocate...

My school now sets homework entirely online. The students who do not have computer access at home (generally the ones with financial issues at home) are having all kinds of issues just being able to do something that should be straightforward like accessing their homework so they can complete it.

Newsround are only to run one broadcast per day now due to kids increasingly turning away from TV and onto online - those who cannot access online will find it more difficult to access the news on a day to day basis in a format they can relate to.

I can certainly see some merit to levelling the playing field on that front, as it can be a significant barrier to learning in today's education system, and those without access to the internet at home are increasingly being left behind.

Edited by kick it off

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

You voted to leave 3 and a half years ago. That was the last time you got something right.

You voted to remain. Does that mean you got it wrong?

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1 hour ago, kick it off said:

For the record, I'm not 100% sure I agree with the policy to be honest, but just to play devil's advocate...

My school now sets homework entirely online. The students who do not have computer access at home (generally the ones with financial issues at home) are having all kinds of issues just being able to do something that should be straightforward like accessing their homework so they can complete it.

Newsround are only to run one broadcast per day now due to kids increasingly turning away from TV and onto online - those who cannot access online will find it more difficult to access the news on a day to day basis in a format they can relate to.

I can certainly see some merit to levelling the playing field on that front, as it can be a significant barrier to learning in today's education system, and those without access to the internet at home are increasingly being left behind.

Well you're the idiots for setting homework entirely online when poor kids don't have access. But I suppose the excuse is it's easier for the teachers and administrators. Talk about not thinking through consequences... or making it someone else's problem....

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Quite right. And who was the idiot that mandated a farmer's market be held every Tuesday? That meant the King had to build roads to the local town at such expense. If only someone had dissuaded him we'd be so much happier living our lives in our villages. 

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6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

You voted to remain. Does that mean you got it wrong?

No. As has been proven. 

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8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Well you're the idiots for setting homework entirely online when poor kids don't have access. But I suppose the excuse is it's easier for the teachers and administrators. Talk about not thinking through consequences... or making it someone else's problem....

RTB failing again.

It's not just kids homework, think about it, broadband is essential to have access to a multitude of services.

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13 hours ago, Van wink said:

The roll out is speeding up and as i said, lots more investment was in the pipeline, no doubt some intervention is required but carefully targetted.

Why does broadband need to be free for everyone?

Emm yes, I suppose if I was driving down the M11 at 10 mph and increased my speed to 15 mph I could claim to be speeding up, much the same as you suggest. No guarantee I would arrive at my destination safely or at all really. Much the same as your unsourced assertion. As for more investment, the estimated cost if the private sector provided this is £34 Billion, the "lots more investment" you talk about apears to be £1.5 Billion or 4.5%, hardly Earth shattering. If you were less blinkered you would know that the current regime has failed: the market is uncompetitive, provision is minuscule, Openzone has been profiteering and its competitors have been cherry picking the high value, low cost sectors of the market. Labour came up with a radical solution to address all these issues. You seem to prefer no solution at all.

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Broadband is at this point a utility like water and power. 

Most large employers won't look at CV's sent through the post or delivered by hand- you need to go through their online ATS system. If we want people getting back into work they need internet access.

I'm not sure I fully agree with the Labour policy but having internet access has become pretty much essential to modern living.

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10 hours ago, ricardo said:

I've been right all along. We are leaving and there won't be a second ref or a revoke.

That is based on the law of averages ie having been wrong every other time you must be right this time

 

ps remember when yu told us that there would not be an election in 2019, or the Tories would secure a 70-100 seat majority  in the 2017 election ?

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To instale and reap the benefots of full fibre broadband requires it to be in every home/business/school etc

However you would be up against strong resistance were you to insist that everyone one had to pay for it hence it will be freely available...... initially is my thought.

Those who have an idea of Norfolk history will know that a huge number of roads were 'metalled' in the 1930's. A project that would not have happened if the same Tory mentality was prevalent then. One that would have had only those who wanted tarmac roads from their village to the next should pay while those who didn't could either use the fields or not travel at all.

It would have given a county with bits of tarmac'ed roads stretching miles or yards with virtually nothing joined up.

What this proposal has shown is how much Tory/brexiteer voting is driven by pig ignorant dogma. Within less than an hour of it being announced all manner of ill informed sh ite was being regurgitated from bigots who probably previously thought 'full fibre' was some kind of carpet material - but were sill happy to repost stuff they clearly didn't understand ....because ithe idea came from Labour.

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19 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Emm yes, I suppose if I was driving down the M11 at 10 mph and increased my speed to 15 mph I could claim to be speeding up, much the same as you suggest. No guarantee I would arrive at my destination safely or at all really. Much the same as your unsourced assertion. As for more investment, the estimated cost if the private sector provided this is £34 Billion, the "lots more investment" you talk about apears to be £1.5 Billion or 4.5%, hardly Earth shattering. If you were less blinkered you would know that the current regime has failed: the market is uncompetitive, provision is minuscule, Openzone has been profiteering and its competitors have been cherry picking the high value, low cost sectors of the market. Labour came up with a radical solution to address all these issues. You seem to prefer no solution at all.

Not blinkered at all, yes at least £1.5 was pulled overnight and more likely to follow, plus more government money will be put in under the conservatives. As for unsourced assertion, what assertion, tell me what it is and I will source it for you. How is more investment “no solution” If anyone is blinkered it’s you BF, you seem to prefer throwing insults around to discussing things these days. Answer my final point, why does everyone need free broadband, do you?

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15 minutes ago, Bill said:

That is based on the law of averages ie having been wrong every other time you must be right this time

 

ps remember when yu told us that there would not be an election in 2019, or the Tories would secure a 70-100 seat majority  in the 2017 election ?

You are going to be proved wrong on everything Billy, and you know it🥃

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

You are going to be proved wrong on everything Billy, and you know it🥃

Oh dear RTB is lying yet again.

Having stated that the 2017 GE would be a hung Parliament, that the meaningful vote would be used, that the extension would be granted (twice), that the UK would not leave in both March and October and much more....... I can hardly be wrong on what has already been proven correct 😅

Now why not use another of your 'names' to tell us about that campsite motion, how you were certain that a deal would be agreed before March 29th ?

or better still come back and wobble your gob when you have actually got something right .... like the single carriageway A11 🤣

 

anyway I must be off, meanwhile why not try and come up with some plausible story that explains how you were able to travel from Aylsham to Standsted without using the A11 - and remember some of us will be trying to work so do try to keep the lies down, there's a good crank

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

 Answer my final point, why does everyone need free broadband, do you?

Isn't that a complete red herring?

The road network is 'free' in this country, as is the health service and nearly everyone seems to think that is a good thing.

But of course none of these things, including 'free' broadband are actually free they are simply paid for by a different mechanism, i.e. taxes.

Personally I'm not a great fan of the Labour plan for broadband but your objections to it seem pretty ridiculous given the extremely poor fist that private enterprise has made of providing the service, added to their very poor performance in providing other public utilities - they have unambiguously failed in the provision of good and reasonably priced public services, spectacularly in many cases (railway franchises, private prisons, in fact Home Office contracts in general, being obvious examples).

Labour's 20th century nationalisation model is, like most of their thinking, well out of date but there are certainly more modern public ownership models which could be applied to most of our public services which would be a huge improvement over the current private sector rip off.

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36 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Isn't that a complete red herring?

The road network is 'free' in this country, as is the health service and nearly everyone seems to think that is a good thing.

But of course none of these things, including 'free' broadband are actually free they are simply paid for by a different mechanism, i.e. taxes.

Personally I'm not a great fan of the Labour plan for broadband but your objections to it seem pretty ridiculous given the extremely poor fist that private enterprise has made of providing the service, added to their very poor performance in providing other public utilities - they have unambiguously failed in the provision of good and reasonably priced public services, spectacularly in many cases (railway franchises, private prisons, in fact Home Office contracts in general, being obvious examples).

Labour's 20th century nationalisation model is, like most of their thinking, well out of date but there are certainly more modern public ownership models which could be applied to most of our public services which would be a huge improvement over the current private sector rip off.

 

In business most things now HAVE to be done on-line i.e tax, VAT (yes the dreaded MTD) and so on. So I'm of the opinion that a core national BB should be available to everyone.

Now to be a little devious - I think we are rapidly approaching, nay passed the point when VOTING should also be done on-line only same as most banking. No 'postal votes'  needed (and if you can't use a simple PC with appropriate options for the disabled then one does have to question today your competence to vote). Some no doubt don't have PCs or phones - but local libraries do etc.       

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Answer my final point, why does everyone need free broadband, do you?

My pension is free, free eye tests, free doctors, fuel allowance, bus pass. But of course they aren't. What it means is they are free at source. As will be broadband, one of the essentials of life as far as I can see. 

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1 - The Conservatives won the 2010 GE on the promise they would deliver Brexit

2 - Brexit beat Remain in the EU referendum

3 - The Conservatives won the last GE on the promise they would deliver Brexit

4 - The Brexit Party dominated the European elections

5 - Conservatives who are promising to deliver Brexit are looking likely to win again..

Number 1. Cameron promised a referendum not Brexit

Number 3. The Tories had a reduced majority signalling a remain gain

Number 5 According to that spiv and sponger as your avatar, the Tories are not delivering Brexit.

If only Meatloaf could have sung a song "Two out of five ain't bad"

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15 hours ago, Van wink said:

The roll out is speeding up

 

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

As for unsourced assertion, what assertion, tell me what it is and I will source it for you.

Answer my final point, why does everyone need free broadband, do you?

Well apologies @Van wink, it is frustration getting the better of me in what is an assymetric debate on this subject (not just with you).

The country has a long standing problem. Labour has identified it as a problem and come up with a working solution. Labour's opponents respond by denying that there is a problem and have not provided any solution that experience indicates would work.

Whether it is free is an interesting one. Of course there is no such thing as a free lunch, and everyone is paying for it out of general taxation. But it is a universal provision, everyone is also receiving the service in this scenario. It is fair and will encourage a connected society. What benefit is there in wasting money on collection of variable contributions from the recipients, if say it was means tested. There is no behaviours that need changing, there is not a capacity issue over usage. Perhaps that is why the figures indicate that this approach saves £14 Billion in the delivery when compared with the private sector.

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9 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Water, Gas and Electricity are essentials of life.

They are also constrained resources. Pricing moderates people's consumption.

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2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

They are also constrained resources. Pricing moderates people's consumption.

It certainly does if you're poor. 

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Broadband is at this point a utility like water and power. 

Most large employers won't look at CV's sent through the post or delivered by hand- you need to go through their online ATS system. If we want people getting back into work they need internet access.

I'm not sure I fully agree with the Labour policy but having internet access has become pretty much essential to modern living.

If Labour were for leaving the EU on WTO terms, scrapping HS2 and refocusing part of the foreign aid budget on domestic priorities, I'd say yes to free base level broadband...

They're not, in which case they/We can't afford the investment.

And no, Broadband is not as vital as water and power, ffs.

 

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21 minutes ago, Jools said:

If Labour were for leaving the EU on WTO terms, scrapping HS2 and refocusing part of the foreign aid budget on domestic priorities, I'd say yes to free base level broadband...

They're not, in which case they/We can't afford the investment.

And no, Broadband is not as vital as water and power, ffs.

oh dear, you cannot help yourself from misrepresenting posts - or lying as I would have it

(it's what gives you way so easily)

no one has claimed that broadband is as vital as water or power - that is just you making up stuff again

what was said was " Broadband is at this point a utility like water and power", nothing about vital

and to ensure the whole country has access then a comprehensive approach is necessary, one that I have no doubt will allow for extra spend as with private healthcare and schooling but the base level will be there

and how that is arrived at, I don't doubt, will be a mixture of suppliers, but having the one commissioning body

investing for the future, not divesting for the present day gain of a few

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Not bothering with TV debate tonight as it will just be a farce with TweedleDee not answering questions when the answers haven't been prepared by Scratchy and Scratchy. Corbyn is not a "personality" and will get mullahed in a head to head.

Policies will be lost and it will be the biggest waste of TV time. And if people haven't made their minds up already then I would like to know where they have been hiding.

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41 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Not bothering with TV debate tonight as it will just be a farce with TweedleDee not answering questions when the answers haven't been prepared by Scratchy and Scratchy. Corbyn is not a "personality" and will get mullahed in a head to head.

Policies will be lost and it will be the biggest waste of TV time. And if people haven't made their minds up already then I would like to know where they have been hiding.

I expect the viewing figures will be low. Its not like people are waiting to be persuaded.

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" No analysis of the likely economic damage from Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal will be carried out, the government has admitted. Ministers have dropped plans to publish a Treasury assessment, amid estimates of a hit to the UK economy of anything between £70bn and £130bn, leaving people thousands of pounds worse off.

The stance was attacked as “a dereliction of duty” by Julie Ward, a Labour MEP, who uncovered it after submitting a freedom of information request. “The government doesn't even know, or don't even seem to care, what their new Brexit deal will mean for the economy, business and families across the country,” she said."

So support something the Tories don't want you to know how much it will cost you.

Support a prospective PM who has had his questionable dealings with some floozy delayed until after the election so you won't know what level of fraud was committed.

Likewise delay a report that outlays the suggested 'dodgy' money propping up certain Tories...... so you won't know until after the election.

Nothing to hide, is there ?

 

image.png

Edited by Bill

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33 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I expect the viewing figures will be low. Its not like people are waiting to be persuaded.

I fancy a film tonight instead, probably this one.

6EF1D55E-CBD6-469E-ABD2-D7D79CC3FAA2.png

Edited by Van wink
  • Haha 1

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