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The Brexit Thread

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1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

It’s starting to appear that you’re a good example of why everything is so divisive, you don’t want to discuss anything, you just want to tell everyone you’re right and they’re wrong.

Not at all, I put forth my views, you spouted some incredibly outdated views that suggest you haven't even spoken to a teenager in the last 20 years and then instead of putting anything else forward, started to make jokes that these "immature kids" would find... pathetically immature. We can agree to disagree but I sincerely hope the next parliament doesn't. They have it in Scotland and it's been a massive success there.

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1 minute ago, Mello Yello said:

Anyone who reacts to it......your go......

It just seemed a really weird thing to say as I can't see anybody upset at having a GE, in fact I think it's been universally well received across the forum unless I'm missing something.

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1 minute ago, kick it off said:

It just seemed a really weird thing to say as I can't see anybody upset at having a GE, in fact I think it's been universally well received across the forum unless I'm missing something.

I'm weird......but old enough to vote......

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2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Lets hope we get a result that resolves the issue one way or another.

Indeed, a party that will implement it or a party that will scrap it, there's no half pregnant eh 😉

  • Haha 2

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Every time a “ young person “ hears something they don’t like they call it outdated.How has Scotland changed that makes the young vote a massive success ?

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19 minutes ago, kick it off said:

You don't have to vote, spoil the ballot if you like, but you should have to turn up.

What’s the point in that then ?

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8 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Absoutely. This is a massive gamble by Johnson. The sane# thing to do would have been to allow MPs to scrutinise the WA further, perhaps even allowing some changes on, for example, workers' rights, subject to EU approval (which for that would have been forthcoming), and then call for the WA to be passed.

Particularly pointing the finger at the MPs who voted for the second reading but then switched sides on the basis that it was being rushed through, and demand that since their complaint had been dealt with they should switch back to backing him and making Brexit happen.

 

#I would substitute 'safer' for 'sane'.

Interesting comment from one of the UK's top psephologists on what does look like a massive gamble:

Prof John Curtice’s election prediction: Tories beware. Election will return more than a 100 MPs not from Labour or Conservatives. And whilst Corbyn can do a deal with another party to stop Brexit, Johnson cannot to do a deal to deliver Brexit.

Not sure whether he means then that Corbyn (assuming he is still Labour leader...) will be able to do a deal to stop Brexit or only to stop Johnson's ultra-hard Brexit, given that so far the opposition parties have failed to agree an alternative either to May's WA or Johnson's. But the election might change that.

If Curtice is right it raises the question of what kind of government there might be, since while the non-Tory parties might sort of unite on Brexit that doesn't mean they would unite enough on everything else to form a viable government with a roughly agreed upon set of aims.

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7 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Every time a “ young person “ hears something they don’t like they call it outdated.How has Scotland changed that makes the young vote a massive success ?

I'm 32 - unfortunately not exactly what you'd call a "young person" anymore (Well maybe Ricardo would 😉 ). I work with teenagers every single day of the week though, so I have an understanding of their level of knowledge and understanding. If you have any relevant experience that lends credibility to your points, other than outdated tropes then feel free to add them. I say outdated, for no other reason than I cannot find a better word to describe them. They just don't match up with my experience and as I've worked with people of that age group for nearly 15 years, in various capacities, I think my experience is pretty broad.

Turnout of 16 and 17 year olds in the Indy Ref was 75%. Far higher than the 18-24 year olds turnout of 54%. Engaging young people in politics creates a more politically aware society and better democracy because people are better informed and make wiser decisions. 

Edited by kick it off

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6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Indeed, a party that will implement it or a party that will scrap it, there's no half pregnant eh 😉

If you want Brexit and the hell that it will bring you will have to vote Brexit Company.

If you want to stop it vote for the LibDems, Greens, SNP or Plaid Cymru.

If you want to **** about for ten years vote Conservative.

I'm not sure what Labour will bring other than a tactical vote to stop the right.

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5 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Interesting comment from one of the UK's top psephologists on what does look like a massive gamble:

Prof John Curtice’s election prediction: Tories beware. Election will return more than a 100 MPs not from Labour or Conservatives. And whilst Corbyn can do a deal with another party to stop Brexit, Johnson cannot to do a deal to deliver Brexit.

Not sure whether he means then that Corbyn (assuming he is still Labour leader...) will be able to do a deal to stop Brexit or only to stop Johnson's ultra-hard Brexit, given that so far the opposition parties have failed to agree an alternative either to May's WA or Johnson's. But the election might change that.

If Curtice is right it raises the question of what kind of government there might be, since while the non-Tory parties might sort of unite on Brexit that doesn't mean they would unite enough on everything else to form a viable government with a roughly agreed upon set of aims.

It’s not a gamble when you’ve got nothing to lose.

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20 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Massive result tonight. The bigots lost heavily. General Election to drain the swamp. Real Brexit to follow. They're not laughing now.

That makes no sense.

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2 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Because it increases participation because when actually there, many people will vote. The more people we have voting, and the better informed they are, the better democracy and governance that will follow.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/world/australia/compulsory-voting.html

But you said people can turn up and spoil their voting slip if they want, there’s no point in that unless you think they will make a decision there and then which will mean they haven’t necessarily put much thought into their vote. 

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3 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

But you said people can turn up and spoil their voting slip if they want, there’s no point in that unless you think they will make a decision there and then which will mean they haven’t necessarily put much thought into their vote. 

If they know they have to turn up anyway then they are probably quite likely to have put some  thought into what they are doing when they get there.... That's kind of the point of it. 

If people don't feel comfortable voting for any of the candidates then they should retain the freedom to not vote for any of the candidates which is why the option of spoiling your ballot is permissable (plus how on Earth could you police an anonymous vote to see who had spoiled their ballot). It also increases community, as in Australia where they have community BBQs at the polling station and the elections are held on a Saturday to increase access and enfranchisement.

Edited by kick it off

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I see the Fascist wing is out with “drain the swamp” slogans and propaganda already. Do they not have a single original idea or will they just run a Donald Trump 2016 style campaign again - no matter, I know the answer. 

Problem is the swamp has not been drained, And it can’t be given the creatures he has put into his administration, the advantage is the UK can see who is in Boris’ government already. 

Elect the Tories and you can also look to the US for a preview of the political, environmental and fiscal vandalism they will bring along with them. 

Over to you guys....

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10 minutes ago, Herman said:

If you want Brexit and the hell that it will bring you will have to vote Brexit Company.

If you want to stop it vote for the LibDems, Greens, SNP or Plaid Cymru.

If you want to **** about for ten years vote Conservative.

I'm not sure what Labour will bring other than a tactical vote to stop the right.

I don't think Labour is sure what they will bring either. They have no identity anymore.

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4 minutes ago, kick it off said:

community BBQs at the polling station

To be fair that might get me there, but not in December 😁

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3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

I see the Fascist wing is out with “drain the swamp” slogans and propaganda already. Do they not have a single original idea or will they just run a Donald Trump 2016 style campaign again - no matter, I know the answer. 

Problem is the swamp has not been drained, And it can’t be given the creatures he has put into his administration, the advantage is the UK can see who is in Boris’ government already. 

Elect the Tories and you can also look to the US for a preview of the political, environmental and fiscal vandalism they will bring along with them. 

Over to you guys....

 

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30 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

I don't think Labour is sure what they will bring either. They have no identity anymore.

I'm glad you got what your perceive as good news tonight after your little sobfest earlier. I'd have been concerned for your sensitive soul if it hadn't gone your way. 

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47 minutes ago, Herman said:

If you want Brexit and the hell that it will bring you will have to vote Brexit Company.

If you want to stop it vote for the LibDems, Greens, SNP or Plaid Cymru.

If you want to **** about for ten years vote Conservative.

I'm not sure what Labour will bring other than a tactical vote to stop the right.

I think BJ will have pretty much United the Brexit  voters, if the anti Brexit parties can’t unite then they will lose their battle I suspect.

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31 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm glad you got what your perceive as good news tonight after your little sobfest earlier. I'd have been concerned for your sensitive soul if it hadn't gone your way. 

You ain't gettin a piccy response.

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

If you want Brexit and the hell that it will bring you will have to vote Brexit Company.

If you want to stop it vote for the LibDems, Greens, SNP or Plaid Cymru.

If you want to **** about for ten years vote Conservative.

I'm not sure what Labour will bring other than a tactical vote to stop the right.

I think, unless Labour comes out expressly as pro-remain, the Tories will run away with it. If you want Brexit, I think you vote Conservative. If you want Remain, you’re stuck with a tough decision. And if the “remain” vote is split between two or more parties, then the Conservatives are likely to benefit. 

References to the GE giving Boris a “mandate” for Brexit is misguided. People vote for all sorts of things at a general election. If he wants to prove he has the “mandate” on a specific issue, then go for a single-issue referendum.

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