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The Brexit Thread

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13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

Exactly. Apart from the LibDems, the other opposition parties have basically agreed to leave but with a deal. And at Committee stage, amendments can be made such as a Customs Union. That is why the WA got past the 2nd reading. If there is nothing on the table then you can't amend it.

eh !

So were the nearly 300 MP' who voted against the Bill all Libdems ?

There is no 'deal' to be had, as the lastest nonsense has shown. The UK eithers leaves the EU and accepts the full consequences of that, or stays in the EU and likewise accepts the full consequences of that.

There is no halfway house where the UK can pick and chose the bits it wants. That's why every attempt has failed.

And all we are seeing at the moment is political parties and MP's 'maneuovering' to best place themselves for a GE.

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9 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

The point I was making was not that this is what it is but that this is how Johnson will portray it in an election campaign. Inside the Westminster bubble it matters that this was only a second reading. Outside, I don't think that matters so much.

Voters see that Johnson did something that seemed impossible in getting the EU to renegotiate (actually that involved getting the border back in the Irish Sea which was what the EU wanted all along but that is a nicety most won't care about) and then got it voted on approvingly in the Commons (something May never managed), only to be thwarted by some arcane procedure. And by MPs who thwart the ref. result by rejecting Brexit deals but cannot come up with any alternative.

Leaving that campaigning pitch aside, that MPs did vote it through, in contrast to rejecting May three times, does mean a significant step has been taken. If Johnson allows proper time for MPs to debate then those who had voted for the first vote and then swung the second vote against will find it hard to justify doing so again. Bear in mind the unexpected size of the majoity Johnson got on the first vote.

Yes I tend to agree - It will be spun as a success even though it was far from that.

As to a GE - I think that's going to be a far wilder ride than many realize! I have real suspicions that the Tories won't make real inroads into Labour heartlands - especially with Farage biting into the Tory vote. Yet the LDs will make hay elsewhere. A different balance but groundhog day nevertheless.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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Well Parliament is following it’s procedures, and I have thought and said that there is a majority for Brexit among MPS. If the ERG had voted for May’s deal it would have passed too - so the PM’s success, as it is, is uniting the Tories and ex-Tories around a bill they could have voted on before. He just stitched up NI to do it. Like the referendum almost half of the MPs  against it of course so not a “mandate majority” at all yet.

So now there is the process of reviewing what is actually in the deal and if the media were honest they would point that out, not push “silly billies” stories about MPs can’t make up their minds.

There can’t be GE until 2/3 of MP’s vote for it and there won’t be one until Labour is satisfied the PM and his team have no opportunity to bounce the UK into an even harder Brexit. 
 

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12 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

The point I was making was not that this is what it is but that this is how Johnson will portray it in an election campaign. Inside the Westminster bubble it matters that this was only a second reading. Outside, I don't think that matters so much.

Voters see that Johnson did something that seemed impossible in getting the EU to renegotiate (actually that involved getting the border back in the Irish Sea which was what the EU wanted all along but that is a nicety most won't care about) and then got it voted on approvingly in the Commons (something May never managed), only to be thwarted by some arcane procedure. And by MPs who thwart the ref. result by rejecting Brexit deals but cannot come up with any alternative.

Leaving that campaigning pitch aside, that MPs did vote it through, in contrast to rejecting May three times, does mean a significant step has been taken. If Johnson allows proper time for MPs to debate then those who had voted for the first vote and then swung the second vote against will find it hard to justify doing so again. Bear in mind the unexpected size of the majoity Johnson got on the first vote.

more ill informed old cobblers from our closet brexiteer

and since when has MPs voting to have the accepted amount of time to scrutinise a bill been 'an arcane procedure' ?

christ, even the farken animals in circus bill was allocated more time than this

stop stop posting up lies and maybe let one of your other 'characters' have a go

Len perhaps ?

 

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15 minutes ago, Bill said:

eh !

So were the nearly 300 MP' who voted against the Bill all Libdems ?

There is no 'deal' to be had, as the lastest nonsense has shown. The UK eithers leaves the EU and accepts the full consequences of that, or stays in the EU and likewise accepts the full consequences of that.

There is no halfway house where the UK can pick and chose the bits it wants. That's why every attempt has failed.

And all we are seeing at the moment is political parties and MP's 'maneuovering' to best place themselves for a GE.

Yes there is. It just needs a majority to vote for it.

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Why all the angst Bill ? The opinion that PC makes is not unreasonable and he doesn't claim to be omnipotent. Now SC or PM I would understand :classic_biggrin:. It will be spun as success even though it was a failure no different to May's.

Too many conspiracy theorists around here!

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3 minutes ago, Bill said:

stop stop posting up lies and maybe let one of your other 'characters' have a go

Len perhaps ?

 

I was just wondering if all those characters are each registered to vote, perhaps VW will tell us😂

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Just now, ricardo said:

I was just wondering if all those characters are each registered to vote, perhaps VW will tell us😂

Most are under 16.....

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Just now, ricardo said:

I was just wondering if all those characters are each registered to vote, perhaps VW will tell us😂

of course they are

even bagster in France could vote in the referendum

though I fear RTB might get lost on the A11

fancy someone 'in Norfolk' not knowing that the A11 was no longer single carriageway :classic_unsure:

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Yet you want to lower the voting age😉

I think that's a separate discussion. I think that there are good arguments for having a both lower and upper voting age!

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Yet you want to lower the voting age😉

Johnson permitted kids as young as 15 to elect him as PM (as well as those with a similar numbered IQ)

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4 minutes ago, Bill said:

of course they are

even bagster in France could vote in the referendum

though I fear RTB might get lost on the A11

fancy someone 'in Norfolk' not knowing that the A11 was no longer single carriageway :classic_unsure:

Perhaps he lives in Yarmouth and uses the A12🚘😉

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11 minutes ago, Bill said:

and pigs will fly if enough vote for it 🤣

 

bring back mellow

That’s a different point.

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14 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I was just wondering if all those characters are each registered to vote, perhaps VW will tell us😂

All have postal votes and live in Peterborough 

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Perhaps he lives in Yarmouth and uses the A12🚘😉

and has never read local paper, listened to local radio or watched local TV

and that route to Standsted airport......I think not

just hand crank forgetting which character he was at the time

 

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4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

All have postal votes and live in Peterborough 

looks nice this time of year

19277529_101.jpg

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Judging PMQs today, Johnson IS going full on Trump tactics. The genius of Cummings is that he doesn't care what lies are told so long as there are enough mugs to believe them. This is where the election will go so how do we combat it?

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Wise words

 

 
 
aAaX9ci6_normal.jpg
 
Brexiters have immense advantages: they have referendum win, the government, and now parliamentary approval for a deal in principle But Remainers are winning a sequence of smaller battles and now have benefit of further extension Neither can be complacent, either could prevail

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12 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Seeing that Creperie made me think of you.

but then you have a better knowledge of that square than the rest of us

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8 minutes ago, Bill said:

but then you have a better knowledge of that square than the rest of us

If you say so :classic_wacko:

Where is it?

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Bill
   1 hour ago,  PurpleCanary said: 

The point I was making was not that this is what it is but that this is how Johnson will portray it in an election campaign. Inside the Westminster bubble it matters that this was only a second reading. Outside, I don't think that matters so much.

Voters see that Johnson did something that seemed impossible in getting the EU to renegotiate (actually that involved getting the border back in the Irish Sea which was what the EU wanted all along but that is a nicety most won't care about) and then got it voted on approvingly in the Commons (something May never managed), only to be thwarted by some arcane procedure. And by MPs who thwart the ref. result by rejecting Brexit deals but cannot come up with any alternative.

Leaving that campaigning pitch aside, that MPs did vote it through, in contrast to rejecting May three times, does mean a significant step has been taken. If Johnson allows proper time for MPs to debate then those who had voted for the first vote and then swung the second vote against will find it hard to justify doing so again. Bear in mind the unexpected size of the majoity Johnson got on the first vote.

"more ill informed old cobblers from our closet brexiteer

and since when has MPs voting to have the accepted amount of time to scrutinise a bill been 'an arcane procedure' ?

christ, even the farken animals in circus bill was allocated more time than this

stop stop posting up lies and maybe let one of your other 'characters' have a go

Len perhaps ?"

 

 

Ah ha, so Purple has joined our merry band........anyone seen the Queen of Hearts?

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

The point I was making was not that this is what it is but that this is how Johnson will portray it in an election campaign. Inside the Westminster bubble it matters that this was only a second reading. Outside, I don't think that matters so much.

Voters see that Johnson did something that seemed impossible in getting the EU to renegotiate (actually that involved getting the border back in the Irish Sea which was what the EU wanted all along but that is a nicety most won't care about) and then got it voted on approvingly in the Commons (something May never managed), only to be thwarted by some arcane procedure. And by MPs who thwart the ref. result by rejecting Brexit deals but cannot come up with any alternative.

Leaving that campaigning pitch aside, that MPs did vote it through, in contrast to rejecting May three times, does mean a significant step has been taken. If Johnson allows proper time for MPs to debate then those who had voted for the first vote and then swung the second vote against will find it hard to justify doing so again. Bear in mind the unexpected size of the majoity Johnson got on the first vote.

Just seen this and can't disagree with much of it. The spin is working thanks to poor or complicit journalism. And a hell of a lot of voters do not follow the minutiae and the detail. 

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5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

If you say so :classic_wacko:

Where is it?

same place as your car you posted up

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