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Jools

The Brexit Thread

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backs what I have said previously

" Any period of scrutiny is unpalatable to Johnson, because he fears that the threadbare coalition that might exist to back his deal will unravel once it engages in closer examination of the withdrawal agreement.

Its erosion of workers’ rights; its creation of a new no-deal cliff edge in 2020; its entrenchment of a hard Brexit in law – all those dangers would only become more visible under the spotlight of protracted (or even normal) Commons scrutiny.

Bits of his coalition – especially among those Labour MPs who backed him on Tuesday – would begin to flake off. "

And yet the bigots appear to want something that does not deliver what they were told in 2016 would be brexit

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The European Parliament's Brexit coordinator Guy Verhofstadt has reacted to this evening's votes.

He said: "You're all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage."

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7 minutes ago, Herman said:

surely that cannot be true - the bigots on here have repeatedly told us that the UK would be leaving the EU on 31st Oct so there would be no extension, as they did last March

however for those not so dim this is a clear confirmation that there is no deal that will allow the UK to leave the EU with anything like what the gormless were told

as it stands the UK will have to accept EU schedules for up to a decade, much as with fishing rights- immigration will merely be replaced by those from India and China

trade deals will take up to seven years and cost a fortune to negotiate with up to a hundred seperate countries, and the bigger ones able to dictate THEIR terms to the UK, meanwhile no UK companies will continue to move away as the UK no longer has open access to the EU

today was the high water mark for tis nonsense - a deal that ran from the slightest suggestion of scrutiny, should tell even the thickest what they should grasp

 

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The Conservatives have already got out their "blame game" tweets and memes. As if they were hoping to lose and get a general election rolling along.

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I need to keep booking holidays close to Brexit dates. Went to Holland last May so was delighted when we didn't leave in March and I'm taking the family to Disneyland Paris in January, fingers crossed we're still in the EU then too.

Who the f*ck knows what'll happen between now and then?

The whisky-influenced pessimist in me thinks there are enough dipsh*ts like VW, ricardo, Swindon and moy in this country to give that blonde-haired w@nk stain a majority.

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22 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I need to keep booking holidays close to Brexit dates. Went to Holland last May so was delighted when we didn't leave in March and I'm taking the family to Disneyland Paris in January, fingers crossed we're still in the EU then too.

Who the f*ck knows what'll happen between now and then?

The whisky-influenced pessimist in me thinks there are enough dipsh*ts like VW, ricardo, Swindon and moy in this country to give that blonde-haired w@nk stain a majority.

The UK will still be in the EU then, and long after.

The problem for Johnson is Farage splitting the bigot vote - hence Johnson spouting even more right wing ****, to try and fend off Farage.

With the Remain vote doing the opposite, well organised with tactical voting and pointing out the hypocricy of Johnson etc bleating about dealing with the cuts in funding to public services, schools, hospitals, it is likely not to be the result many are predicting at this stage.

It should also be borne in mind that Johnson is currently being investigated over charges of misconduct in public office, which won't play well in any election campaign.

Vote for him before he goes to jail. Not the best of campaign slogans.

Edited by Bill

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8 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

I need to keep booking holidays close to Brexit dates. Went to Holland last May so was delighted when we didn't leave in March and I'm taking the family to Disneyland Paris in January, fingers crossed we're still in the EU then too.

Who the f*ck knows what'll happen between now and then?

The whisky-influenced pessimist in me thinks there are enough dipsh*ts like VW, ricardo, Swindon and moy in this country to give that blonde-haired w@nk stain a majority.

To avoid being here for Brexit day next week, I am off to Beirut on Tuesday for a holiday. It says something when I would rather be in Beirut than the U.K.

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9 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think all this vote shows is that there is a general majority in Parliament for a WA - but not without some sort of 'add-on' such as a CU or 2nd Ref. I actually suspect May's old deal might have got closer as it wouldn't of antagonized the DUP.

So EU will almost certainly extend to end of January (and Johnson must accept - or perhaps even longer to allow comfortable 2nd ref. ) so I would guess apart from the ditch digging detail we are then into GONU or GE territory. Clearly Parliament Has Taken Back Control. 

Only an idiot🤓 makes definitive predictions about Brexit but...

The only way you will get a Brexit with a customs' union (and perhaps not even then) is if Johnson calls for and gets a general election and the result is either a Labour government or an anti-Tory, anti-Hard Brexit coalition.

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9 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

I need to keep booking holidays close to Brexit dates. Went to Holland last May so was delighted when we didn't leave in March and I'm taking the family to Disneyland Paris in January, fingers crossed we're still in the EU then too.

Who the f*ck knows what'll happen between now and then?

The whisky-influenced pessimist in me thinks there are enough dipsh*ts like VW, ricardo, Swindon and moy in this country to give that blonde-haired w@nk stain a majority.

If we had a decent opposition party the pessimism might be less warranted. 

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

If we had a decent opposition party the pessimism might be less warranted. 

Undoubtedly there is some truth in that.

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"Does anyone know what Guido thinks?"

If only we had one and/or two posters that could update us on his latest rambings? Come to think of it, I've not seen any recent updates from Facts4EU either? 💩🇬🇧🤭

Apples

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1 hour ago, Mr Apples said:

"Does anyone know what Guido thinks?"

If only we had one and/or two posters that could update us on his latest rambings? Come to think of it, I've not seen any recent updates from Facts4EU either? 💩🇬🇧🤭

Apples

Moy, Swindo, Dock the Boat and Jools have all gone on holiday together.

Obviousy in Britain though, they won’t travel to the rest of Europe.

I heard Mad Moy wanted to do a spot of fishing before all the fish emigrate to the EU.

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13 hours ago, Herman said:

Sorry, with so much goings on it is hard to keep up. What happens with the Queen's speech and any votes coming up?

That is being discussed this afternoon - the NHS being the subject in tis session.

Otherwise we have the spectacle of the slippery Gove up on his hind legs at 11.30 as the warm up act before Bertie faces PM's question time at noon. Where I suspect that questions will be raised as to how much of his deal did he actually know about ?

Bertie is renowned for not knowing the 'finer detail' (anything) of what he is backing, hence his facking up so many time previously and as this comment demonstrates he still doesn't

" Ian Paisley." I have to go out and tell businesses in my community I don’t know what you have to do to carry out £18bn worth of trade with our country, not a foreign country.. I do not know what you will be charged and you want me to vote for this?

"You can’t be serious."

He is and more frighteningly there are those still too thick to grasp what is going on.

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11 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

I heard Mad Moy wanted to do a spot of fishing before all the fish emigrate to the EU.

I would gladly take him out fishing but he would definatley get tied to the Kedge.

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"Obviousy in Britain though, they won’t travel to the rest of Europe."

It's a pity they haven't had a chance to use those blue passports they wanted so much. I'll take a guess at the Vauxhall Holiday Park, with the comforting hum of the Acle New Road. 😂

Apples

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I would have thought that Jaywick (Clacton) would be more suited - as that seems a place that has the same attitude to 'foreigners'.

Though it is a bit odd that given how few 'foreigners' they are in the area they some how blame them for their plight.

But that's brexiteers for you ☹️

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As we don't have any Guido updates, here's one from the Daily Mash. 😂

You could have had Brexit by now if you hadn’t been such d*cks about it

BRITAIN’S Remain voters have pointed out that Brexit could have happened ages ago if Brexiters had not been such tw*ts about it. 

Half the country explained that in 2016 the UK was pretty much resigned to Brexit, the Tories had a majority, and the whole thing could be done and dusted if not for kn*bheads pushing their luck.

Tom Booker of Maidenhead said: “You won, yeah? So when are you planning to get over it?

“Honestly, three years ago everyone was like ‘Well, that’s it, Brexit.’ Then May laid down all her impossible red lines, then she lost her election, and ever since it’s been like watching a thick bloke trying to argue his way out of a speeding fine.

“You could have had it! All you had to do was stay in a customs union and you could have stopped immigration, which was all you cared about anyway. But no.

“Nobody had heard of bloody no-deal before last summer but suddenly that was all you wanted and nothing else would do and look where it’s got you.

“Now we’re at the point where you’ve got an actual Brexit deal actually passed and the first thing you do is stop everything because you’re not allowed to ram it through in three days. Seriously?”

Brexiter Norman Steele said: “It’s not us. It’s everyone else.”

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18 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The significance of that should not be underestimated. Once voted for MPs will find it hard not to vote for again. And if there is an election Johnson will campaign as the PM who did what May could not, and got a deal approved in a vote, only for rebel MPs to block it with yet another manoeuvre.

He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

Edited by ThorpeCanary

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He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

Exactly. Apart from the LibDems, the other opposition parties have basically agreed to leave but with a deal. And at Committee stage, amendments can be made such as a Customs Union. That is why the WA got past the 2nd reading. If there is nothing on the table then you can't amend it.

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5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

Exactly. Apart from the LibDems, the other opposition parties have basically agreed to leave but with a deal. And at Committee stage, amendments can be made such as a Customs Union. That is why the WA got past the 2nd reading. If there is nothing on the table then you can't amend it.

I expect there will be a little more election dodging before the inevitable.

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23 minutes ago, ThorpeCanary said:

He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

 

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

Exactly. Apart from the LibDems, the other opposition parties have basically agreed to leave but with a deal. And at Committee stage, amendments can be made such as a Customs Union. That is why the WA got past the 2nd reading. If there is nothing on the table then you can't amend it.

I don't think much has actually changed. May's deal was better unless you are a little Englander and care nothing for NI - but the real issues remain the same -  a hard or softer Brexit. Boris will take some comfort though from the result even if it is misleading.

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25 minutes ago, ThorpeCanary said:

He did not get the deal approved he got it passed for second reading.

In my opinion there will be those who voted for the second reading who will soon find reasons not to when the time comes.

The point I was making was not that this is what it is but that this is how Johnson will portray it in an election campaign. Inside the Westminster bubble it matters that this was only a second reading. Outside, I don't think that matters so much.

Voters see that Johnson did something that seemed impossible in getting the EU to renegotiate (actually that involved getting the border back in the Irish Sea which was what the EU wanted all along but that is a nicety most won't care about) and then got it voted on approvingly in the Commons (something May never managed), only to be thwarted by some arcane procedure. And by MPs who thwart the ref. result by rejecting Brexit deals but cannot come up with any alternative.

Leaving that campaigning pitch aside, that MPs did vote it through, in contrast to rejecting May three times, does mean a significant step has been taken. If Johnson allows proper time for MPs to debate then those who had voted for the first vote and then swung the second vote against will find it hard to justify doing so again. Bear in mind the unexpected size of the majoity Johnson got on the first vote.

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