Jump to content
Jools

The Brexit Thread

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

We shall see. Bercow allowed May a second vote on her Withdrawal Deal, so it will be argued that Johnson is entitled to try again to have a vote on his. Not least because part of the Letwin objection was that MPs had not been given sufficient time to study the WA. By tomorrow or Tuesday they will have had more time.

Added to which, it looks odd to people outside politics (and perhaps even to some inside) for a very loose-knit opposition (of people and parties who hate each other) to keep trying to come up with manoeuvres to stop a substantive vote, which is what is happening. As exemplified by the latest surreal twist, of Labour apparently trying to form a really unappetising alliance with the DUP.

Erskine May

Matters already decided during the same session

20.12A motion or an amendment which is the same, in substance, as a question which has been decided during a session may not be brought forward again during that same session.1 Since 1994 this rule has been applied so that, in the case of ten-minute rule motions under Standing Order No 23, refusal by the House of leave to introduce a bill should be treated as the rejection of that bill at a substantive stage, with the effect that a bill with the same or a very similar long title could not be presented again in the same session.2Attempts have been made to evade this rule by raising again, with verbal alterations, the essential portions of motions which have been negatived. Whether the second motion is substantially the same as the first is finally a matter for the judgment of the Chair.3 The same rule has been applied to an amendment renewing a motion which had been already negatived.4 Some motions, however, have been framed with sufficient ingenuity to avoid the rule.5 On rare occasions where the House has been offered a series of alternative proposals for its consideration, an order was made specifically directing the Chair to put the questions on later motions notwithstanding any decision of the House on earlier motions.6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Well, where do I start with that rant ?

Liar = Can't really disprove this (can anyone unless they a caught red handed ?) But I can say you keep saying that I write a lie when it's clearly not.

image.png.df9a4e42db78c12e5f1c93c996f87a23.png

Sorry guys tried to get an old photo from my log an called up the wrong one, this is how she looks now

Racist. I've proved this before but to put you right this is an American girl who I nearly left the Navy for 

 

 

idiot = What ? with my IQ ?

Pick any one of them and it fits you. But they missed one...FVCKWIT covers them all. But dont worry you are not alone on this pathetic thread.

prevaricator, false witness, deceiver, dissimulator, romancer, maligner, deluder, trickster, cheat, misleader, falsifier, story-teller, equivocator, fibber, one who lies, fabricator, pseudologue, perjurer, fabulist, pseudologist;  "Liar."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

That's tragic. That is unbelievably pathetic. 

I'm starting to feel sorry for him. 

It's very sad - just a fantasist. That why I totally blank him and PM. It's just too far down the rabbit hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Erskine May

Matters already decided during the same session

20.12A motion or an amendment which is the same, in substance, as a question which has been decided during a session may not be brought forward again during that same session.1 Since 1994 this rule has been applied so that, in the case of ten-minute rule motions under Standing Order No 23, refusal by the House of leave to introduce a bill should be treated as the rejection of that bill at a substantive stage, with the effect that a bill with the same or a very similar long title could not be presented again in the same session.2Attempts have been made to evade this rule by raising again, with verbal alterations, the essential portions of motions which have been negatived. Whether the second motion is substantially the same as the first is finally a matter for the judgment of the Chair.3 The same rule has been applied to an amendment renewing a motion which had been already negatived.4 Some motions, however, have been framed with sufficient ingenuity to avoid the rule.5 On rare occasions where the House has been offered a series of alternative proposals for its consideration, an order was made specifically directing the Chair to put the questions on later motions notwithstanding any decision of the House on earlier motions.6

Indeed. This is being quoted as backing for Bercow to refuse Johnson. But the odd thing is that this also applies to putting forward the same amendment. So potentially you seem to have the bizarre position in which Johnson cannot reput his motion but if he could the opposition could not reput their blocking amendment, or could they...

My guess is that if Johnson really thinks he has the votes he will find a way to get some kind of vote on his WA this week that demonstrates that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" Racist. I've proved this before but to put you right this is Pearl an American girl who I nearly left the Navy for  "

of course you did, mouse brain, with your IQ of 125 and trading on the stock market

you are Wiz re-incarnated......................a serial liar and a sad fantasist

87145626-popeye-and-olive-oyl-cartoon-vi

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Indeed. This is being quoted as backing for Bercow to refuse Johnson. But the odd thing is that this also applies to putting forward the same amendment. So potentially you seem to have the bizarre position in which Johnson cannot reput his motion but if he could the opposition could not reput their blocking amendment, or could they...

My guess is that if Johnson really thinks he has the votes he will find a way to get some kind of vote on his WA this week that demonstrates that.

gosh, what an insight !

that it has been already been listed for Tuesday should not detract from this stunning prediction 🙁

 

ps you haven't seen Len anywhere have you ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

 

ps you haven't seen Len anywhere have you ?

 

Its a bit damp but I'm off out for the day, I will let you know if I spot him anywhere Bill.🌩🚗🌤

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a bit damp but I'm off out for the day, I will let you know if I spot him anywhere Bill.

Cold but sunny day down here and I have taken the dog out and faffed about in the garden for a bit but Len wasn't in the leaves I swept up or sat on the bird table. Off into town in a mo and will see if he is putting in a shift in the charity shops. Blood test at midday so I will check the waiting room and Mrs KG will check in the dentists.

Is Anywhere Bill like Selsey Bill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grandson has shown me a post which says its the year 2092 and a politician goes to Europe to deliver a letter about extending Brexit. Nobody can remember how this tradition started or what it signifies.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Anyone seen the easily triggered snowflake Jools recently? He must be taking a ‘break’"

I'm gutted I didn't make it onto his (or Shyster's) list...I must try harder. 🤭😂

Apples

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To assist the 'not too  bright, of which there are many on here, I have included this update on things (taken from the Independent)

 
"Speaker John Bercow is expected to rule this afternoon that the vote will not be allowed to take place, after saying on Saturday that it would be “curious and irregular” for a motion to be debated which was purely designed to invalidate MPs’ decision two days before. But if he does allow it to go ahead, the group of former Tory MPs sitting as independents have made clear they will table a “Letwin 2” amendment once again withholding approval of the deal until all of the necessary legislation to ratify it has passed.
 
“The meaningful vote will go ahead if the speaker allows it and if no amendments are selected which would render the vote pointless. There is no point having a meaningless vote. The government would pull the motion.”
 
Bercow is expected to make his ruling on whether the vote can go ahead early in the afternoon. Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg will later make a business statement, effectively clearing the parliamentary decks for debate of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill over the following nine or 10 days.
 
The bill - along with an impact assessment - is due to be published on its introduction to the Commons at first reading this evening. MPs will then vote on the WAB at second reading on Tuesday, but this will not amount to an endorsement of the deal, merely the agreement of the Commons for the proposals to be scrutinised and debated. 
 
Once second reading has been completed, Rees-Mogg is expected to put forward a programme motion setting out an accelerated timetable to get the bill onto the statute book in time for the 31 October Brexit deadline. 
 
It is expected that this would see WAB complete all its Commons stages by the end of this week, with the Lords sitting over the weekend and into the start of next week to consider it, and the bill completing its passage and receiving royal assent before the deadline of 11pm on Thursday next week."
 
To summarise - MPs are fighting to ensure Johnson/Cummings cannot pull any stunt to avoid scrutiny of the new deal - of which the Bill will be published tonight along with an impact assessment. What the brexiteers tried to avoid it being seen on Saturday.
 
So Ist reading tonight, 2nd tomorrow then on to Friday where the 'stick insect' will tell us all that the small print, finer details, implications, cost are not important and after a few minutes Parliament should approve the Bill. Though if not approved those naughty EU might allow another 3 months.... so we can all have a closer look at what we are signing up to. Naughty them, wanting the voters to be better informed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I left the army* to climb a mountain, as a bet. And a very successful venture it was with one chap later setting up a double glazing firm, another designing a van for Leylend and myself becoming an Olympic spinter - so quick, that I was nicknamed 'electric' Bill.

We were all part of a tight knit group, each with a specialist skill - I was the welder (as seen in the photo).The ascent took us 11 days, 9 of which were to lace up one chap's boots.

Mt.-Everest-optimised-8.jpg

* Salvation Army, that is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Bill said:

To assist the 'not too  bright, of which there are many on here, I have included this update on things (taken from the Independent)

 
"Speaker John Bercow is expected to rule this afternoon that the vote will not be allowed to take place, after saying on Saturday that it would be “curious and irregular” for a motion to be debated which was purely designed to invalidate MPs’ decision two days before. But if he does allow it to go ahead, the group of former Tory MPs sitting as independents have made clear they will table a “Letwin 2” amendment once again withholding approval of the deal until all of the necessary legislation to ratify it has passed.
 
“The meaningful vote will go ahead if the speaker allows it and if no amendments are selected which would render the vote pointless. There is no point having a meaningless vote. The government would pull the motion.”
 
Bercow is expected to make his ruling on whether the vote can go ahead early in the afternoon. Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg will later make a business statement, effectively clearing the parliamentary decks for debate of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill over the following nine or 10 days.
 
The bill - along with an impact assessment - is due to be published on its introduction to the Commons at first reading this evening. MPs will then vote on the WAB at second reading on Tuesday, but this will not amount to an endorsement of the deal, merely the agreement of the Commons for the proposals to be scrutinised and debated. 
 
Once second reading has been completed, Rees-Mogg is expected to put forward a programme motion setting out an accelerated timetable to get the bill onto the statute book in time for the 31 October Brexit deadline. 
 
It is expected that this would see WAB complete all its Commons stages by the end of this week, with the Lords sitting over the weekend and into the start of next week to consider it, and the bill completing its passage and receiving royal assent before the deadline of 11pm on Thursday next week."
 
To summarise - MPs are fighting to ensure Johnson/Cummings cannot pull any stunt to avoid scrutiny of the new deal - of which the Bill will be published tonight along with an impact assessment. What the brexiteers tried to avoid it being seen on Saturday.
 
So Ist reading tonight, 2nd tomorrow then on to Friday where the 'stick insect' will tell us all that the small print, finer details, implications, cost are not important and after a few minutes Parliament should approve the Bill. Though if not approved those naughty EU might allow another 3 months.... so we can all have a closer look at what we are signing up to. Naughty them, wanting the voters to be better informed.

No Deal looking ever more likely.   The ERG will be well happy as will most of the country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Mr Apples said:

How many posters do we currently have "taking a break" and is there any kind of pattern emerging here? 🤔💩🇬🇧🤪

Apples

it's poor hand crank - he gets caught out so drops a log in until it all blows over

bagster voting in the referendum, RTB not knowing that the A11 was dualled, Len taking his inflammatory homophobia too far

still we do have Ron Oblivious making a re-appearance, so who knows mellow might back a cameo at some point

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/10/2019 at 11:56, Van wink said:

Yeh

Hypothetically,putting the election or a second referendum point to one side, I wonder what would happen if a member state decided to veto an extension leaving no deal, the deal or revoke as the ony three options left to parliament.How would they vote.

"

The unconventional “form” of Boris Johnson’s extension request is irrelevant to the EU, the European commission has confirmed, as Germany’s economic affairs minister said “it goes without saying” that a further Brexit delay would be granted.

Peter Altmaier, a key ally of the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, said he believed either a technical extension to allow extra time for legislation to pass, or a longer period to accommodate a general election or second referendum would be offered.

“We have already twice agreed to an extension. I have repeatedly said as my own opinion I am not ideologically opposed to extending again a few days or a few weeks if you then certainly get a good solution that excludes a hard Brexit,” Altmaier said.

”If the British are to opt for one of the longer-term options, that is new elections or a new referendum, then it goes without saying that the European Union should do it, for me anyway.”  Mon 21 Oct 2019 14.04

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Where’s Swindo today? Is he enjoying a coffee with that Instagram model?! 🤔

I still cannot get over that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I still cannot get over that.

He just used the wrong picture though.

I’m nearly leaving the navy all the while, to marry American women, and I often forget what they look like 😂

Edited by Hoola Han Solo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"On 17/10/2019 at 11:56, Van wink said:

Hypothetically,putting the election or a second referendum point to one side, I wonder what would happen if a member state decided to veto an extension leaving no deal, the deal or revoke as the ony three options left to parliament.How would they vote."

 

I will answer this question plainly. If it came to No-Deal because of likely veto I would Revoke - EU can't stop us - and then immediately set up a 2nd ref on a known deal vs Remain - Johnsons Deal etc. I suspect the EU would agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

He just used the wrong picture though.

I’m nearly leaving the navy all the while, to marry American women, and I often forget what they look like 😂

I expect when she saw his house she was very keen. 😀

image.png.d9e190463820e4ff40e8d0f053572069.png

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I still cannot get over that.

nor did he by the sound of it 😆

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh dear

Bertie's motion has been knocked back - as seen as not legimate

poor Bertie, another failure 😋

 

and Bill being proven correct........again

Edited by Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Bercow fellow has form on these matters. 

I’m sure the Tory papers will explain all the reasons behind the decision tomorrow.

Any news from the Scottish courts, or did they assume that the side letters were, in practice, meaningless?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeez..... Bercow is knocking the bigots all over the house

little tolerance for the bigots who are putting forward little more than petulant whining

now Caroline Flint spouts more ill informed guff.......why on earth don't these brexiteers read first before getting up and being exposed as clueless

as it seems their view is that as some 17.4m gave advice over 3 years ago that advice over rules due consideration, legislative process and any Parliamentary scrutiny or accountability ie Parliament is not to be sovereign and the thoughts of dead voters should hold sway over live elected representatives

Edited by Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×