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The Brexit Thread

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51 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Nandy begins to look like a very good candidate for the leadership election. That will probably rule her out.

The ignorant, Marxist bar stewards in the Labour Party have to pick a female this time around...

My money's on Becca Wrong Daily ūü§£

The fat man with a skinny man's haircut will come second ūü§£

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2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Try this then

Chickens home to roost

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/01/14/fears-grow-vauxhalls-uk-car-plant-work-shifted-germany/ÔĽŅ

Another Brexity area getting what they voted for.

Sadly all too predictable - it has been pointed out many times before that most of the people who will suffer most from Brexit are in Brexit voting areas. People have said for a long time that turkeys don't vote for Christmas but seems like Brexit has proved that they sometimes do.

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7 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Another Brexity area getting what they voted for.

Sadly all too predictable - it has been pointed out many times before that most of the people who will suffer most from Brexit are in Brexit voting areas. People have said for a long time that turkeys don't vote for Christmas but seems like Brexit has proved that they sometimes do.

FT
Hyundai and Kia have pumped ‚ā¨100m into UK electric vehicle start-up Arrival in one of the largest investments in Britain‚Äôs car industry since the country voted to leave the EU in 2016. The injection by the Korean manufacturers into Arrival will value the company at ‚ā¨3bn, making it one of Britain‚Äôs most valuable start-ups. It also offers a boost for the UK car industry at a time when investment has fallen owing to worries over the country‚Äôs trading relationship with Europe, its largest export market. While Japanese carmakers Nissan and Toyota have invested significant sums to build new models in the UK since the Brexit vote, overall spending in the sector has dropped sharply as international investors delay or divert funding, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. Arrival is preparing to build thousands of electric vans at plants in the UK and internationally and plans to develop a new range of vehicles alongside the Korean manufacturer following the investment.

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BMW Here in Swindon are investing £100m into the pressing plant to build a new super press. They started to build it, June last year. they always had confidence that Brexit would be fine. 

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Tony Blair has been accused of ‚Äúunacceptable‚ÄĚ behaviour after it emerged he has been briefing Emmanuel Macron on how to force Britain to stay in the EU.

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2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

BMW Here in Swindon are investing £100m into the pressing plant to build a new super press. They started to build it, June last year. they always had confidence that Brexit would be fine. 

Since this is a football thread a football analogy I think is useful.

For Swindon - the loss of Honda and all those jobs is a bit like being 6 : 0 down at half time. You get a consolation goal back scored by your striker (who's already linked in transfer talks in the Netherlands - Mini) and so with 20 minutes left it's 6:1. Will we let in another three before full time ? They've just brought on their 'A' team with instructions to 'fill their boots' it seems!

Now as a Canary I always hope for miracles - I have the 'faith' - after all it's a game but sadly it's real life in Swindon.

 

Kind of reminds of the climate deniers too - cherry pick every helpful fact - but excuses and head in the sand for the bulk of the evidence (rate change  -0.25% BoE expected)  -  but just can't (or won't) accept the bigger picture. 

Edited by Yellow Fever
Being a bit optimistic there - it's only half time @ 6:1 down.

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54 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Tony Blair has been accusedÔĽŅ of ‚Äúunacceptable‚ÄĚ behaviour after it emerged he has been briefing Emmanuel Macron on how to force Britain to stay in the EU.

"Peter Bone, a Eurosceptic Conservative MP, said: “It is totally unacceptable "

"Well he would say that, wouldn't he?" MRD

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28 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Since this is a football thread a football analogy I think is useful.

For Swindon - the loss of Honda and all those jobs is a bit like being 6 : 0 down at half time. You get a consolation goal back scored by your striker (who's already linked in transfer talks in the Netherlands - Mini) and so with 20 minutes left it's 6:1. Will we let in another three before full time ? They've just brought on their 'A' team with instructions to 'fill their boots' it seems!

Now as a Canary I always hope for miracles - I have the 'faith' - after all it's a game but sadly it's real life in Swindon.

 

Kind of reminds of the climate deniers too - cherry pick every helpful fact - but excuses and head in the sand for the bulk of the evidence (rate change  -0.25% BoE expected)  -  but just can't (or won't) accept the bigger picture. 

When Honda finally goes here in Swindon, it was nothing to do with Brexit, it was Honda changing the way cars are distributed. In fact it was not helped by the EU agreeing to a trade deal with Japan !

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6 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

When Honda finally goes here in Swindon, it was nothing to do with Brexit, it was Honda changing the way cars are distributed. In fact it was not helped by the EU agreeing to a trade deal with Japan !

I repeat.

"Kind of reminds of the climate deniers too - cherry pick every helpful fact - but excuses and head in the sand for the bulk of the evidence (rate change  -0.25% BoE expected)  -  but just can't (or won't) accept the bigger picture."

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31 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

When Honda finally goes here in Swindon, it was nothing to do with Brexit, it was Honda changing the way cars are distributed. In fact it was not helped by the EU agreeing to a trade deal with Japan !

 

32 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

When Honda finally goes here in Swindon, it was nothing to do with Brexit, it was Honda changing the way cars are distributed. In fact it was not helped by the EU agreeing to a trade deal with Japan !

More lies from Swindo ūüôĄ

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1 hour ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

 

More lies from Swindon ūüôĄ

No it's not, just look at where Honda pulled their factories,  the only factories they have outside of Japan now are the ones they have not got a trade deal with !

Edited by SwindonCanary
people who can't spell swindon

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Good to see that the government say they will never withdraw from the European Convention of Human Rights under circumstances and will remain active in the Council of Europe.

Nice, and confusing for Brexiteers.

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14 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

No it's not, just look at where Honda pulled their factories,  the only factories they have outside of Japan now are the ones they have not got a trade deal with !

What, like the UK in 2021...........complete red herring

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9 minutes ago, Herman said:

Enlighten us oh Swindon. 

Honda, pulled factories from all over the world, now the only ones producing cars outside of Japan are India, United States, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Pakistan and Vietnam. The guys here think if Boris plays hard ball Honda will change their minds !

 

Edited by SwindonCanary
people who can't spell swindon

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2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Honda, pulled factories from all over the world, now the only ones producing cars outside of Japan are India, United States, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Pakistan and Vietnam. The guys here think if Boris plays hard ball Honda will change their minds !

 

Can I ask the obvious question then?

If we have no FTA with Japan as seems likely very quickly - why would Honda close the UK? Could it possibly be that outside the EU it's supplying a small mature market with likely high tariff barriers to elsewhere hence makes no sense?

I will give you a bit of insight into the mindset of people who have closed sites. Nobody does it lightly - its very very expensive on the bottom line (let alone all that political grief) so usually you err on the side of 'milking' with minimal or only essential investment in non-loss making sites to keep them going where you aren't sure about their strategic future (yes it might be the odd £100M) for the business overall. I suspect that Honda couldn't see much future in Swindon and with Brexit and the challenges to the car market generally forced a strategic review. The axe fell. They don't have a Brexit problem anymore!

No doubt other car companies are going through similar machinations and I fear with similar results. Is the site strategic? Is it profitable? How will Brexit affect it? What investment does it need to remain profitable in a rapidly changing world? Can we rationalise?

Keep the faith !

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5 hours ago, Van wink said:

FT
Hyundai and Kia have pumped ‚ā¨100m into UK electric vehicle start-up Arrival in one of the largest investments in Britain‚Äôs car industry since the country voted to leave the EU in 2016. The injection by the Korean manufacturers into Arrival will value the company at ‚ā¨3bn, making it one of Britain‚Äôs most valuable start-ups. It also offers a boost for the UK car industry at a time when investment has fallen owing to worries over the country‚Äôs trading relationship with Europe, its largest export market. While Japanese carmakers Nissan and Toyota have invested significant sums to build new models in the UK since the Brexit vote, overall spending in the sector has dropped sharply as international investors delay or divert funding, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. Arrival is preparing to build thousands of electric vans at plants in the UK and internationally and plans to develop a new range of vehicles alongside the Korean manufacturer following the investment.

That may well be a tiny piece of good news but as you well know 100m euros is a tiny investment compared to what car manufacturers regularly make to fund new models, never mind totally new technologies and its pretty clear that in the UK's largest manufacturing sector the overall trend is very much for jobs to be moved out of the UK rather than created in the UK.

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20 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That may well be a tiny piece of good news but as you well know 100m euros is a tiny investment compared to what car manufacturers regularly make to fund new models, never mind totally new technologies and its pretty clear that in the UK's largest manufacturing sector the overall trend is very much for jobs to be moved out of the UK rather than created in the UK.

It’s a start up, but for a start up that’s a very decent sum. Why would they be doing that in the U.K. if the outlook is as dire as you think it is?

I recall you and others wailing and grinding teeth over the forthcoming exit of Airbus as a result of the leave vote.....mmmmmm

“The chief executive of Airbus has said the future of its British wing plants is "secure" and there is "great potential to expand" post Brexit.“

You need to get some perspective on this, move out of the grieving stage and look forward.ūüėÄ

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20 minutes ago, Van wink said:

You need to get some perspective on this

Precisely what I was saying to you - one tiny bit of good news amongst a lot of bad news doesn't mean things are going well.

The trend is very clear and it's not what your highly selective reporting is trying to suggest but if it comforts you whilst you're waiting for the unicorns to be delivered then of course keep us entertained in your own inimitable style ūüėÄ

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

It’s a start up, but for a start up that’s a very decent sum. Why would they be doing that in the U.K. if the outlook is as dire as you think it is?

Simple really, they arn't.

The £85m gives them access to Arrival's manufacturing IP which then can then deploy in Korea (if it turns out to be successful).

The desparation for good economic in the current climate means that people don't look at the full picture.

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In the real world the latest figures show industrial production has been contracting for months.....

image.png.d21b8f46139e08d4495746a8ab92e327.png

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46 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Simple really, they arn't.

The £85m gives them access to Arrival's manufacturing IP which then can then deploy in Korea (if it turns out to be successful).

The desparation for good economic in the current climate means that people don't look at the full picture.

"Arrival is preparing to build thousands of electric vans at plants in the UK and internationally and plans to develop a new range of vehicles alongside the Korean manufacturer following the investment."

 

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We're going to hell in a Korean electric van. It's novel.... 

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26 minutes ago, Van wink said:

"Arrival is preparing to build thousands of electric vans at plants in the UK and internationally and plans to develop a new range of vehicles alongside the Korean manufacturer following the investment."

 

Yeah, right. You believe that PR then? it‚Äôs the usual hyped up phrasing hoping that the public and politicians say¬†‚Äúwow you guys are great‚ÄĚ
 

Start ups are technology incubators. You create a new process and then¬†your investors decide what to do with¬†it from there. So who owns¬†them becomes the key question. The¬†phrase ‚Äúthousands‚ÄĚ can mean as little as 2,000. a drop in the bucket in the car / van market. The¬†phrase ‚Äúat plants‚ÄĚ means they will hold and assemble¬†parts in more than one location. The phrase ‚Äúin the UK and internationally‚ÄĚ covers a lot of ground and could mean¬†one plant - possibly a pilot plant -¬†in the UK. You don‚Äôt need multiple¬†plants to build¬†thousand of anything except ships or aircraft.¬†

Edited by Surfer

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Brexiters are welcome to trumpet tiny pieces of good news. But as that FT article states, the overriding picture in the motor trade is of international investment being at best delayed and at worst halted/scrapped. And the picture is the same with investment from overseas in UK business and industry generally.

There are two political truths about Brexit. The UK is leaving the world's largest single market and around 60 trade deals the EU has negotiated on our behalf around the world. By definition any trade deal the EU offers the UK has to be markedly worse in terms of our economy.

Secondly, unless that trade deal gets the UK out from under EU rules and regulations in a significant and visible way, and the more significant and visible the worse for the UK the deal will be, then Brexit voters will start to wonder what was the point.

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I feel some remainers are hoping Britain will go downhill after Brexit, just so they say 'I told you so'

Edited by SwindonCanary
missed an s

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