The Positive Brexit Thread

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Did he,  can you show me where Norman redacted it?  With that information I will happily accept your position.In the mean time I will continue to state my view that Norman is a hugely respected and honourable man and attempts to smear his integrity to push a remain agenda are pathetic, and of course now futile.👍

Take a look and listen to the speech yourself. Its easy to find. Many have. What was said and its context isn't in any doubt.

I really can't be bothered with those arguing black is white anymore or 1 + 1 = 3. It's futile.

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I really can't be bothered with those arguing black is white anymore or 1 + 1 = 3. It's futile

I feel the same

[Herman 9,717]

13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Take a look and listen to the speech yourself. Its easy to find. Many have. What was said and its context isn't in any doubt.

I really can't be bothered with those arguing black is white anymore or 1 + 1 = 3. It's futile.

I think that is their plan. They wear down the people that are willing to look a bit deeper at things or indulge in a bit of critical thinking, they keep moving the goalposts so you end up arguing about completely irrelevant topics and thy end up "winning" simply by people not being arsed arguing anymore.

 

[Herman 9,717]

 

On 29/12/2019 at 20:08, Rock The Boat said:

Reading that Twitter thread one can see that the majority of posters agree with Norman Lamb. But it's really no surprise that some of the lefties on here want to scapegoat Norman as it helps to deflect from the weakness of their narrative. A narrative, we remind ourselves, that was soundly rejected by the country a couple of weeks ago.

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Herman

[SHRIMPER 328]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

You two must be the most disingenuous and dishonest pair of shysters on this forum. Winky posted something from Lamb which wasn't truthful. We pointed out the fact it wasn't very truthful. Winky is whining because we pointed it out.

Who is who Herman?

 

[Herman 9,717]

Winky still has a few teeth.😀

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

 

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

 

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

1985 views the same  !

 

[Van wink 2,994]

10 hours ago, SHRIMPER said:

Edited December 30, 2019 by Van wink

[Van wink 2,994]

10 hours ago, SHRIMPER said:

Who is who Herman?

 

Looks like Bill on the left, so must be Ben on the right. 😀

[BigFish 1,986]

12 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

It's actually really rather depressing they need to keep misrepresenting perfectly reasonable EU or indeed UK positions and squint at the facts through the wrong end of the telescope to keep justifying their dubious beliefs. If I didn't know better I would suggest their endless demand for these 'reassurances'  is in fact a sure signs of deep doubts creeping in. 

As to the EU no doubt they are considering how in many ways to balance their budget. They do it every  few years. Same as Johnson no doubt except he'll borrow heavily (so our children can pay it back). Yes the EU wants and feels it needs to spend more on defence cooperation (it's a dodgy world)  - so that means less elsewhere - but the EU 'army' so as to speak (a myth) or rapid reaction force proposed - or was it ships in the med or a few civilian and military peacekeeping forces, cyber security and better cooperation between forces is along way from an EU 'army'. Indeed the UK was happy to take part in such. In any event it no longer bothers us as we've abdicated our role in leading and shaping Europe. We can be the little brother over the channel.

It is truely strange that even now when they have everything they said they wanted the Brexiteers continue to hark back to arguments from the last three years. Strange, and inexplicable. Why are we not hearing about "Global Britain" and the brave new future? Why do they continue to rehash the lies and fabrications? Why is it they keep telling Remainers to accept the result and move on while being unable to do so themselves?

The big question is which entity is more likely the break-up in the next 10 years.........the EU or the UK?

[Van wink 2,994]

When you see a really good local MP continuing to be attacked by a bunch of extremists its not surprising that the issue will be mentioned. Most decent folk would be outraged by this behaviour.

 

[Herman 9,717]

I was just thinking what fresh horse**** will Winky bring us today? (It's not even fresh.)🤣🤣

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

I was just thinking what fresh horse**** will Winky bring us today? (It's not even fresh.)🤣🤣

Shocking the way these Liberals behave Hermy, you must be proud of them

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

2 hours ago, BigFish said:

It is truely strange that even now when they have everything they said they wanted the Brexiteers continue to hark back to arguments from the last three years. Strange, and inexplicable. Why are we not hearing about "Global Britain" and the brave new future? Why do they continue to rehash the lies and fabrications? Why is it they keep telling Remainers to accept the result and move on while being unable to do so themselves?

The big question is which entity is more likely the break-up in the next 10 years.........the EU or the UK?

Thanks BF for enlarging upon my original comment.

I was trying to say I find it very strange that the Brexiters on here still seem to be seeking self-justification via dubious mis-truths and out of context quotes. It tells me more about them and their self-doubts than about Brexit itself.

Onwards and upwards - certainly for the Canaries! 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Yellow Fever

[A Load of Squit 5,136]

An interesting read for those who are getting excited about the 31/01/2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/30/brexit-10-things-uk-citizens-can-still-do-in-eu-after-31-january

With the UK’s departure date from the EU now effectively set in stone, 31 January will be a historic day. The article 50 process will have been completed and the country will no longer be in the EU.

However funereal those who wished to stay in the EU may be feeling there will still be time to enjoy the rights of EU citizens because the UK will remain part of the single market for another 11 months.

Here are some things you can still do in 2020 because of the transition period.

1. Holiday in the EU

You can still travel to any EU member state up to 31 December 2020 with no impediments such as visas. After Brexit it is likely that visa-free trips will continue for stays of up to 90 days. The European health insurance card which will give health cover for tourists in another member state still applies.

2. Take up a summer job in the EU

Some might have fond memories of formative weeks and months working on the continent as a student, whether waiting in restaurant, working in a factory, child minding in the Med, or working in a holiday resort in Spain. During the transition period students and any other workers will still have the right to work in another member state. This is because freedom of movement rules, which includes freedom of movement of labour, still pertain while the UK is in the single market. Freedom of movement is likely to end on 31 December next year.

3. Get a full-time job in the EU

For the same reason British citizens will still be eligible for full time positions in the EU. After Brexit some countries will discriminate in favour of EU candidates.

4. Retire to the EU

Some of those that had dreamed of retiring to the EU at some point are already speeding up their plans to get in before the drawbridge goes up. As part of the withdrawal agreement British citizens who are settled, whether working or retired, in the EU before the end of the transition period will retain most of their rights as EU citizens for the remainder of their lives. The key rights that have yet to be negotiated include an annual uprating of pension sent from the UK and the continued right to move within the EU.

5. Go on an Erasmus study programme

Some 17,000 British students studied in another member state according to the most recent data for 2017/2018. Most of the university places for 2020 are already allocated but places are still available for further education college students and apprentices who are eligible for work placements for between two weeks to three months. It is hoped that Erasmus will continue after Brexit but this depends on negotiations on the future relationship with the EU.

6. Apply for EU funding for science research

British citizens will still be able to apply for funding in Horizon2020 programmes during the transition period. Eligibility will also still apply for European regional development funds and European social funds, which have been important sources for infrastructure and environment developments in rural areas and for many not-for-profit organisations seeking to help people into employment in impoverished areas.

7. Apply for arts funding

The EU’s Creative Europe funding stream will remain open to British applications. Also promising a call for applications in 2020 is IPortunus, a new EU mobility fund for artists .

8. Nominate yourself for a literature prize

British writer Melissa Harrison won the UK’s European prize for Literature in 2019 for Among the Barley, a novel exploring the dangers of nationalism and xenophobia, in 2019. The prize fund is open in 2020 to British citizens.

9. Look at cross-border healthcare opportunities

EU citizens have the right to access healthcare in any EU country and to be reimbursed for care abroad by their home country. This is in addition to the emergency health care for tourists under the Ehic system. Little is written about cross-border healthcare, or the processes involved but it is still available during the transition period, says the EU. The NHS’s guide to getting treatment abroad is here while the EU’s overview is here.

10. Know your rights and benefits for 2020

The EU’s guide to rights for UK and EU citizens during the transition period is available online. This is a handy guide published in 2018 but which still applies outlying various scenarios.

[ron obvious 1,501]

So did ‘idiot voters’ get it wrong?

https://unherd.com/2019/12/so-did-the-voters-just-get-it-wrong/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

Great article - even manages to reference VAR!

[A Load of Squit 5,136]

4 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

So did ‘idiot voters’ get it wrong?

https://unherd.com/2019/12/so-did-the-voters-just-get-it-wrong/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

Great article - even manages to reference VAR!

Yes.

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

So did ‘idiot voters’ get it wrong?

https://unherd.com/2019/12/so-did-the-voters-just-get-it-wrong/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

Great article - even manages to reference VAR!

But it only looks at one result,  There was the referendum, the EU elections, and putting Boris in with a BIG majority.

When will remainers get it the country wants 'out' ?

[Herman 9,717]

We are leaving Swindon. But we still have the right to hold you to account.

[Herman 9,717]

For instance.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-company-wins-licence-to-monitor-british-fishing-boats-5dk8wp6gr

"The business that won the tender to track UK fishing vessels wherever they operate, as well as foreign-licensed boats in British waters, is Collecte Localisation Satellites (CLS),
a French maritime surveillance provider."

“It is ludicrous at a time when we’re supposed to be taking back control of our fisheries that we’re handing over the policing of them to a company part-owned by the French government,” said Andrew Bridgen, the MP for North West Leicestershire."

[Van wink 2,994]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Thanks BF for enlarging upon my original comment.

I was trying to say I find it very strange that the Brexiters on here still seem to be seeking self-justification via dubious mis-truths and out of context quotes. It tells me more about them and their self-doubts than about Brexit itself.

Onwards and upwards - certainly for the Canaries! 

Nobody needs to seek self justification, but reference to the abuse of decent people by nasty Remain elements within the Lib Dems is not something that should just be ignored, however much you may wish to sweep it under the carpet. 

[Herman 9,717]

The EU are going to get blamed for a lot of things over the next year but this thread hopefully explains that this is exactly what brexiters voted for.

"No, the EU is not going to put up barriers to data exchange with the UK, or block City access to the EU. Brexit does both those things automatically.

Brexit destroys the legal framework that made such things possible in the first place. The UK, not the EU, is responsible for this and it is irritating to see the EU being accused of threatening to do things that Brexit does automatically.

Of course, it’s possible that the UK and EU will in time agree on a shared regulatory framework that will make data transfers, passporting and all the rest possible once more. Will the UK want to take that step and accept all the obligations that will go along with it? Its call.

It would be helpful if journalism recognized that Brexit per se leads to a WTO relationship and nothing more. That is the default now, not the status quo. Any negotiations will be starting from a WTO default and seeing if anything more can be mutually agreed.

They’ll not be starting from the current, EU membership status quo and subtracting things from that. Which is why claiming that the EU is threatening to withhold this or that are misleading. We’re starting with nothing & seeing if we can add to that, not starting from everything.

And you’d have to say that thus far any reluctance to have a deeper-than-WTO relationship has been more evident on the UK side that in the EU side. To put it mildly. So we will see what HMG decides to do in 2020.

But since we’ll be starting from WTO, the first question will not be “will the City lose access to the EU SM”. It’ll be “can we agree on a zero tariff zero quota deal”, which is a minimal ambition but also a far from certain outcome given the level playing field requirements."

https://twitter.com/kevinhorourke

[ron obvious 1,501]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

But it only looks at one result,  There was the referendum, the EU elections, and putting Boris in with a BIG majority.

When will remainers get it the country wants 'out' ?

The point he was making is that leave won the vote as defined by our present laws. You can argue that the laws are wrong & need changing, but if you live in a democracy you can only change that by democratic means - by persuading enough people that things need to change. Fingers crossed it happens with VAR 

The only other means available to you are violent revolution or the use of corrupt practices (which is what remain tried to do).

It is always a catch 22 situation. A dictatorship can claim to be a democracy, & will always have the law on its side. So in a way it comes down to individual choice; there are always revolutionaries or those who wish to subvert the present arrangements to suit what they see as a better one (either claiming it would be better for the majority, or would be the will of a higher authority, or for  naked self interest). 

It will be interesting to see what tactics the remain side use in the coming months. It's a sort of Holy War for some of them. Quite a few appear to be on this site.

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

16 minutes ago, Herman said:

The EU are going to get blamed for a lot of things over the next year but this thread hopefully explains that this is exactly what brexiters voted for.

"No, the EU is not going to put up barriers to data exchange with the UK, or block City access to the EU. Brexit does both those things automatically.

Brexit destroys the legal framework that made such things possible in the first place. The UK, not the EU, is responsible for this and it is irritating to see the EU being accused of threatening to do things that Brexit does automatically.

Of course, it’s possible that the UK and EU will in time agree on a shared regulatory framework that will make data transfers, passporting and all the rest possible once more. Will the UK want to take that step and accept all the obligations that will go along with it? Its call.

It would be helpful if journalism recognized that Brexit per se leads to a WTO relationship and nothing more. That is the default now, not the status quo. Any negotiations will be starting from a WTO default and seeing if anything more can be mutually agreed.

They’ll not be starting from the current, EU membership status quo and subtracting things from that. Which is why claiming that the EU is threatening to withhold this or that are misleading. We’re starting with nothing & seeing if we can add to that, not starting from everything.

And you’d have to say that thus far any reluctance to have a deeper-than-WTO relationship has been more evident on the UK side that in the EU side. To put it mildly. So we will see what HMG decides to do in 2020.

But since we’ll be starting from WTO, the first question will not be “will the City lose access to the EU SM”. It’ll be “can we agree on a zero tariff zero quota deal”, which is a minimal ambition but also a far from certain outcome given the level playing field requirements."

https://twitter.com/kevinhorourke

I hope you are right, Herman

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

13 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

The point he was making is that leave won the vote as defined by our present laws. You can argue that the laws are wrong & need changing, but if you live in a democracy you can only change that by democratic means - by persuading enough people that things need to change. Fingers crossed it happens with VAR 

The only other means available to you are violent revolution or the use of corrupt practices (which is what remain tried to do).

It is always a catch 22 situation. A dictatorship can claim to be a democracy, & will always have the law on its side. So in a way it comes down to individual choice; there are always revolutionaries or those who wish to subvert the present arrangements to suit what they see as a better one (either claiming it would be better for the majority, or would be the will of a higher authority, or for  naked self interest). 

It will be interesting to see what tactics the remain side use in the coming months. It's a sort of Holy War for some of them. Quite a few appear to be on this site.

Yes it's always been more than just Brexit. The past few years has been a battle for the soul of the nation. And if you want to describe it in global terms, it is a battle of ideologies. 

For want of a better description, the woke progressives have been getting far ahead of themselves and it's been us regular folk who have bring sanity back into society. 

Proud that it is my country and my people who are leading the way globally to counter the progressive nut jobs. It shows how strong democracy is here when it can withstand all the metrollectual attacks and still come out on top. 

Always felt we could act as a beacon to the rest of the world and now we need to set to work on destroying the EU and start offering an alternative Europe to other nations. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

12 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

The point he was making is that leave won the vote as defined by our present laws. You can argue that the laws are wrong & need changing, but if you live in a democracy you can only change that by democratic means - by persuading enough people that things need to change. Fingers crossed it happens with VAR 

The only other means available to you are violent revolution or the use of corrupt practices (which is what remain tried to do).

It is always a catch 22 situation. A dictatorship can claim to be a democracy, & will always have the law on its side. So in a way it comes down to individual choice; there are always revolutionaries or those who wish to subvert the present arrangements to suit what they see as a better one (either claiming it would be better for the majority, or would be the will of a higher authority, or for  naked self interest). 

It will be interesting to see what tactics the remain side use in the coming months. It's a sort of Holy War for some of them. Quite a few appear to be on this site.

This is part of a potentially longer argument but in short I think you will be wasting your time waiting for some kind of concerted Remain effort over Brexit, let alone a Holy War.

Leave won the referendum on the basic question of whether to stay or go and then the electorate gave Johnson the power to decide what kind of Brexit. Voters may end up thinking that was a mistake, but the next election, the first time they could react seriously, will be years away.

In the meantime Remain has been comprehensively sidelined, and cannot be blamed for anything any more. From now on Brexit is entirely owned, as young people say, by those who voted Leave in the referendum and then for the Johnson government. There are no excuses, real or imagined, left. All those glorious promises will have to be fulfilled.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182]

9 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

 

Always felt we could act as a beacon to the rest of the world and now we need to set to work on destroying the EU and start offering an alternative Europe to other nations. 

It´s not our position to destroy the EU - we won´t be part of it. If the member countries of that organization feels that it isn´t working for them it´s up to those countries to sort it out. We can assist and advise them, if they like, but it needs to be their decision