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Jools

The Brexit Thread

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Well as you know I live in France and I seem to remember president Hollande being lauded as the leader to stop austerity!!

Tax the rich , he cried, he did , they left in there 10's of thousands and he pushed the tax on to the self employed.

Was it the end of EU austerity, well no,no it wasn't, it was just another socialist talking out of his **** passage

Now we have Macron who despite coming from the left, pushes quite a right wing agenda.

So now the gilet jaune protests, we want more they cry, more money, free time, longer retirement, less tax , more benefits, less immigrants!! More ****, we want bigger ****, nice cars , huge houses.

Macron says, well if you want all that you have to move to England because only Jezza can produce such magic!!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The correct grammar is 'yours'

Fair point, in fact well done, that's the first thing you've got right on here in an awfully long time.

I must admit my grammar does sometimes deteriorate when I dash off an off the cuff response to a particularly stupid post and, since mad Moyo seems to have sunk without trace, that more often than not seems to mean you.

Still judging by the pettiness of many of your posts it has probably made your day, so enjoy 🙂

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3 hours ago, TCCANARY said:

image.png.20c68abb08bbcbaa59dbe04aa73df256.png

Most can agree that Corbyn and Swinson haven't had the greatest of campaigns but at least they haven't hidden, both metaphorically and literally. They have both fronted up to scrutiny and have taken a few kickings along the way, whether from Andrew Neil or Emma Barnett for example.

How on earth is this oaf going to be taken seriously by the rest of the world? Even most of his own country finds him embarrassing.

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1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

You're the only one that keeps mentioning his religion.

It's a well known anti-semitic trope I thought you should have known that.

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

It is becoming more strange to me.

We keep hearing that many Labour supporters in what were considered marginal, may vote Tory because of Brexit. I do question the mentality of these people. If, like the last election, you consider Labour a better party to govern the country, because you assume you will be better off, why will you vote for the Tories and Leave when you are undoubtedly going to be worse off?

We know we are going to get a Tory government. And those same people who put them in power will suffer the most.

I don't blame a Tory voting Tory. I blame those who are stupid enough to change their normal voting intentions and history without ever looking at the long game.

It's quite likely they will move back to voting Labour at the next election if Brexit gets done and Labour has a better leader and adopt sensible policies. Don't give up hope.

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3 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Actually I think if the Tories had been in power during the gloabl crisis things would have been different but not in the way that Tory accolyte @Badger thinks.

People seem to forget that Gordon Brown had actually got a proper economic recovery underway.....

 

 

I trust you are not seeking to equate Brown with the lefty clowns now running Labour?

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Just now, Van wink said:

I trust you are not seeking to equate Brown with the lefty clowns now running Labour?

They have certainly got the Trots now.

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You don't blame a Tory for voting Tory!!

Jeez well that's very big of you

I don't believe in Jesus. I leave that to the holier than thou of which you seem to fit the bill.

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What are you chaps going to do when Corbyn is ousted for losing two elections?

When the Tories eventually bowls it right up you will have no-one to point at and say that is why you voted Tory.

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1 hour ago, Bagster said:

You don't blame a Tory for voting Tory!!

Jeez well that's very big of you

Well it is still a free country😀

Until Corbyn gets in, then some of us will be off to the re-education camps.

I expect Herman will be the camp Commissar:classic_wacko:

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It's quite likely they will move back to voting Labour at the next election if Brexit gets done and Labour has a better leader and adopt sensible policies. Don't give up hope.

Nothing wrong with policies that include all people. Not just the chosen ones.
As I have said many times, I am not a Corbyn fan but you have to go with who the party elects. But you have to have a trustworthy, sincere leader and you are going to vote for the biggest liar in politics. And can you name any Tory policies apart from Get Brexit Done?

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3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What are you chaps going to do when Corbyn is ousted for losing two elections?

When the Tories eventually bowls it right up you will have no-one to point at and say that is why you voted Tory.

If Corbyn gets anywhere near I expect them to double down with the far left stuff and think they can do it with one more heave.

We may never see sensible Labour again.

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6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

If Corbyn gets anywhere near I expect them to double down with the far left stuff and think they can do it with one more heave.

We may never see sensible Labour again.

It's pretty clear we won't see a sensible government again if Johnson and the acts of deceit get the nod of approval from the British people. 

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12 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What are you chaps going to do when Corbyn is ousted for losing two elections?

When the Tories eventually bowls it right up you will have no-one to point at and say that is why you voted Tory.

A centre left Labour Party with a decent front bench, having got rid of Momentum in the same way that the Militant Tendancy was ousted, and I could well be a returnee.

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

It's pretty clear we won't see a sensible government again if Johnson and the acts of deceit get the nod of approval from the British people. 

You just don’t like Tories Herman. It wouldn’t matter who lead them or what policies they had, it’s an ingrained prejudice with you which you constantly seek to reinforce.

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If Corbyn gets anywhere near I expect them to double down with the far left stuff and think they can do it with one more heave.

We may never see sensible Labour again.

Labour give you two chances of losing and then you are out. In fact you are expected to resign. McDonnell has said that he and Corbyn would "step aside" should they lose.
Many may want a "sensible" Labour Party but I want one that challenges the old and outdated Tory values. For example, I want to see the essentials in life such as water and energy in public hands so that profit is not the first priority but service instead.
And I will not accept that they will go back to the old ways. Just talking to the staff of these companies tells me how bad they are.
Whether Momentum will accept their part in Labour's inability to oust this awful party and its policies is unclear. I hope they disappear back to their nice middle class suburban homes and take up Yoga.
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8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

If Corbyn gets anywhere near I expect them to double down with the far left stuff and think they can do it with one more heave.

We may never see sensible Labour again.

Labour give you two chances of losing and then you are out. In fact you are expected to resign. McDonnell has said that he and Corbyn would "step aside" should they lose.
Many may want a "sensible" Labour Party but I want one that challenges the old and outdated Tory values. For example, I want to see the essentials in life such as water and energy in public hands so that profit is not the first priority but service instead.
And I will not accept that they will go back to the old ways. Just talking to the staff of these companies tells me how bad they are.
Whether Momentum will accept their part in Labour's inability to oust this awful party and its policies is unclear. I hope they disappear back to their nice middle class suburban homes and take up Yoga.

I’ve got a fair bit of sympathy with your remarks about basic utilities. I have no problem with them being in public ownership, in fact I too would prefer it, so long as there were high quality service delivery standards which were explicit and properly regulated, together with proper financial control.

Edited by Van wink

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A centre left Labour Party with a decent front bench, having got rid of Momentum in the same way that the Militant Tendancy was ousted, and I could well be a returnee.

Kinnock came from the Tribune side of the party, a left side of the party and was the ideal person to take over the running of the country in 1987. But the trouble he faced from Militant, another bunch with maybe decent intentions at the heart but led by people with other ideas.

I'll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a code, and you go through the years sticking to that, outdated, misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council – a Labour council – hiring taxis to scuttle round a city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers .

I am telling you, no matter how entertaining, how fulfilling to short-term egos – you can't play politics with people's jobs and with people's services or with their homes

That was one of the bravest and greatest speeches to any Labour Party Conference. And he tried to rid it of the divisiveness that had created the SDP. And the party faced the threat of finishing third in 1987. But because of his leadership they maintained second place and took 40 seats of the Tories.

And so the public still didn't want Labour.

I think it is a fact that England is Tory.

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5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

A centre left Labour Party with a decent front bench, having got rid of Momentum in the same way that the Militant Tendancy was ousted, and I could well be a returnee.

Kinnock came from the Tribune side of the party, a left side of the party and was the ideal person to take over the running of the country in 1987. But the trouble he faced from Militant, another bunch with maybe decent intentions at the heart but led by people with other ideas.

I'll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a code, and you go through the years sticking to that, outdated, misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council – a Labour council – hiring taxis to scuttle round a city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers .

I am telling you, no matter how entertaining, how fulfilling to short-term egos – you can't play politics with people's jobs and with people's services or with their homes

That was one of the bravest and greatest speeches to any Labour Party Conference. And he tried to rid it of the divisiveness that had created the SDP. And the party faced the threat of finishing third in 1987. But because of his leadership they maintained second place and took 40 seats of the Tories.

And so the public still didn't want Labour.

I think it is a fact that England is Tory.

It was an inspiring speech made sweeter by watching Hatton, the public didn’t like Kinnoch, he was seen perhaps unfairly as a bit of a windbag, I disagreed with that view but he did make the fatal mistake of falling over in the sand. He did a lot of the lifting which did ultimately make Labour electable.

Edited by Van wink

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23 minutes ago, Van wink said:

You just don’t like Tories Herman. It wouldn’t matter who lead them or what policies they had, it’s an ingrained prejudice with you which you constantly seek to reinforce.

You haven't been paying the slightest bit attention of what has been going on in the conservative party. When people like Clark, Heseltine, Stewart, Gauke etc are kicked out you should have an inkling that they are not heading in the right direction. Rather ironic when you constantly whinge abour labour going extreme.

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

You haven't been paying the slightest bit attention of what has been going on in the conservative party. When people like Clark, Heseltine, Stewart, Gauke etc are kicked out you should have an inkling that they are not heading in the right direction. Rather ironic when you constantly whinge abour labour going extreme.

They are a great loss, but that has more to do with Brexit than anything else. 

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18 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I’ve got a fair bit of sympathy with your remarks about basic utilities. I have no problem with them being in public ownership, in fact I too would prefer it, so long as there were high quality service delivery standards which were explicit and properly regulated, together with proper financial control.

I'm old enough to remember when they were in public hands. They were run for the benefit of those who worked in them and not the customer.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's pretty clear we won't see a sensible government again if Johnson and the acts of deceit get the nod of approval from the British people. 

For sure, there's a whole new thread there - 'When did the UK last have a sensible government'

Of course, like the Brexiteers that's very backward looking but I don't think there would be any point in starting a 'When will the UK next have a sensible government' because there isn't going to be one, certainly not in the foreseeable future. I think if people are imagining that once Brexit is done (whenever that is - a decade would be my guess) that our politics are going to go back to 'normal' then they are in for a great disappointment.

Much has been changed and broken in the last few years and what we've seen over the last few weeks is the new normal. After tomorrow things will continue to get worse, and almost certainly the decline will accelerate even further.

Still they say every cloud has a silver lining and the smart money all seems to be on the pound getting a short term boost if the Tories win. So in a way a Tory win, although a disaster for the country, is a bit of a double bubble win for me personally - confirms the need for me to get a shuffle on and get across the channel pretty damn quick (my personal getting Brexit done😀) but also gives a brief window to buy Euros at a better rate - will still be rubbish really but hopefully slightly better than anything on offer since the referendum pound devaluation kicked in.

 

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I'm old enough to remember when they were in public hands. They were run for the benefit of those who worked in them and not the customer.

Maybe, but now they are run for the shareholders.
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