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Jools

The Brexit Thread

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10 minutes ago, Jools said:

You'd best go tell/show that to your nutter, FBPE friends over at Twitter 🙃

Go and study the ECHR, you insufferable nincompoop.

so at least we can now safely say that Jools is van wink

and so unsurprisingly he posts up misininformation that he is unable to back

" you seem to have forgotten that in order to re-nationalise anything in the UK we need to be out of the EU. "

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2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Of course, if Labour did roll out broadband everywhere, it would put every other ISP out of business. So there would be no competition and as everyone who lived through the years of socialist nationalised industries such as British Leyland will know, both product quality and customer service goes right out of the window.

But there are more sinister aspects to why you don't want the government to be your broadband provider. Firstly, the government will have free licence to snoop on everything that you do online, from your chat, your shopping to your bank accounts and your location. Secondly, with a monopoly power the government can restrict your access to the internet if they don't like who you are. This is already happening in China where social credit is earned, and those who the regime doesn't like are unable to buy travel tickets or hold credit cards. If you let the government run your broadband connect then you will hand over all your rights as a private citizen to them.

is that the best you can come up with hand crank.........bring back Len, if that is the case

 

ps GCHQ already does this

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26 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

But there are more sinister aspects to why you don't want the government to be your broadband provider. Firstly, the government will have free licence to snoop on everything that you do online, from your chat, your shopping to your bank accounts and your location. Secondly, with a monopoly power the government can restrict your access to the internet if they don't like who you are. This is already happening in China where social credit is earned, and those who the regime doesn't like are unable to buy travel tickets or hold credit cards. If you let the government run your broadband connect then you will hand over all your rights as a private citizen to them.

I'm afraid @RTB that you are displaying a total ignorance about how the internet actually works - the Government via GCHQ, amongst other agencies, already has this ability, and indeed if you paid any attention to serious, rather than fake, news sources you would know that they have been censured in the High Court for using this ability illegally and snooping on large numbers of people without any reasonable or legal justification several times in recent years.

The ability to snoop on internet traffic is entirely independent of your ISP provider - GCHQ can see the lot unless it is very heavily encrypted (and probably even then if they're really bothered), as by and large can the Yanks.

Edited by Creative Midfielder
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oh dear, it looks as if poor Bertie is going bald

but at least there were some stunning new poliies announced earlier

.....actually there weren't, just some paranoid attacks upon Labour and Corbyn, as

" Johnson’s language is reminiscent of the Tories describing Ed Miliband’s plan for a cap on energy bills as “Marxist” - before adopting it two years later as party policy. "

all too reminiscent of that other rightwing slap head, Hague, whose campaign revolved around the absurd slogan that Britain had 24 hours to save the pound......whereas the pound was under no threat, unlike him who was rid off very quickly

 

3500.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=forma

 

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27 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I'm afraid @RTB that you are displaying a total ignorance about how the internet actually works - the Government via GCHQ, amongst other agencies, already has this ability, and indeed if you paid any attention to serious, rather than fake, news sources you would know that they have been censured in the High Court for using this ability illegally and snooping on large numbers of people without any reasonable or legal justification several times in recent years.

The ability to snoop on internet traffic is entirely independent of your ISP provider - GCHQ can see the lot unless it is very heavily encrypted (and probably even then if they're really bothered), as by and large can the Yanks.

I expect hand crank will be along to refute that

or he will simply sign in as Jools etc and set off on aother lie

Edited by Bill

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20 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Of course, if Labour did roll out broadband everywhere, it would put every other ISP out of business. So there would be no competition and as everyone who lived through the years of socialist nationalised industries such as British Leyland will know, both product quality and customer service goes right out of the window.

But there are more sinister aspects to why you don't want the government to be your broadband provider. Firstly, the government will have free licence to snoop on everything that you do online, from your chat, your shopping to your bank accounts and your location. Secondly, with a monopoly power the government can restrict your access to the internet if they don't like who you are. This is already happening in China where social credit is earned, and those who the regime doesn't like are unable to buy travel tickets or hold credit cards. If you let the government run your broadband connect then you will hand over all your rights as a private citizen to them.

It wouldn't put ISPs out of business because what we are talking about is the Internet's backbone. Currently Openreach provide 90% of the domestic market so it is clear competition isn't really a factor in this. They also don't do this very well with only 8% of homes getting superfast broadband and they do it very expensively with Italy, France & Germany having cheaper BB. They also do it uncompetitively, with Ofcom fining them for their commercial practices.

Net Privacy is a whole other debate.

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The simple fact is that private companies have failed to deliver, much as with the railways.

This is not just broadband, it is full fibre broadband, something the UK has around 8% whereas  Portugal, which has full fibre to 89% of homes, and Spain, which is at 71%.  

It is not about some election bribeeither, as might be thought with free TV licenses, but a necessary upgrade that stops the UK falling further behind it's competitors.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/nov/15/how-feasible-is-labour-free-broadband-plan-and-part-nationalisation-of-bt

Embrace the future, or cling to the past.... the choice is that simple

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36 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear, it looks as if poor Bertie is going bald

but at least there were some stunning new poliies announced earlier

.....actually there weren't, just some paranoid attacks upon Labour and Corbyn, as

" Johnson’s language is reminiscent of the Tories describing Ed Miliband’s plan for a cap on energy bills as “Marxist” - before adopting it two years later as party policy. "

all too reminiscent of that other rightwing slap head, Hague, whose campaign revolved around the absurd slogan that Britain had 24 hours to save the pound......whereas the pound was under no threat, unlike him who was rid off very quickly

 

3500.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=forma

 

And the lie is that they are not getting Brexit done they are just moving it onto the next phase which will last at least 2 years.

 

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51 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I'm afraid @RTB that you are displaying a total ignorance about how the internet actually works - the Government via GCHQ, amongst other agencies, already has this ability, and indeed if you paid any attention to serious, rather than fake, news sources you would know that they have been censured in the High Court for using this ability illegally and snooping on large numbers of people without any reasonable or legal justification several times in recent years.

The ability to snoop on internet traffic is entirely independent of your ISP provider - GCHQ can see the lot unless it is very heavily encrypted (and probably even then if they're really bothered), as by and large can the Yanks.

RTB's list of topics he knows very little about but likes to pretend he does gets bigger all the time.

He must be like Johnson and addicted to lying. 😀

 

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"I'm afraid @RTB that you are displaying a total ignorance about how the internet actually works".

Much like that classic sketch from the IT Crowd where Moss explains to Jen how the internet works. By any chance, does anyone have a meme or picture to illustrate this? 🤔😂

Apples

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1 minute ago, TCCANARY said:

RTB's list of topics he knows very little about but likes to pretend he does gets bigger all the time.

He must be like Johnson and addicted to lying. 😀

it's only van wink using one of his various names

and if you recall the ill informed guff he previously posted about a deal being agreed with the EU or how Parliament worked etc the above will not come as any surprise

nor will the thought that he does actually live in France, as with the Citreon CI photo, when you recall him stating that the A11 was still single carriageway

to be an accomplished liar you have to have a very good memory, vank wink does not,so it would seem

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8 hours ago, BigFish said:
3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Of course, if Labour did roll out broadband everywhere, it would put every other ISP out of business. So there would be no competition and as everyone who lived through the years of socialist nationalised industries such as British Leyland will know, both product quality and customer service goes right out of the window.

 

Well that is one point of view. On the other hand the role of the government is to help advance the common wealth of the people, it is why we have roads for example, the first generation being private toll roads but now the vast majority are publicly built and maintained for the public good. You are free to run your private care or private bus company on that road for a modest use fee. And we drive at about the same speed as most countries, and we have roads that connect most people to the national network. 
 

The internet should be the same, it is the equivalent of roads to trade in a modern economy, but we are stuck in the early toll road era. That may sound great if you are one of the toll takers, but the fact is the common wealth of the people is not being properly served at the moment; not everyone is connected to the national / international network, and we certainly do not enjoy the same speeds as are available in many other countries.

So it’s a very good idea worthy of consideration, not to be immediately shot down - private companies can be just as bad as nationalized ones, it’s all about the management and governance in place. 

Edited by Surfer
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21 minutes ago, Mr Apples said:

"I'm afraid @RTB that you are displaying a total ignorance about how the internet actually works".

Much like that classic sketch from the IT Crowd where Moss explains to Jen how the internet works. By any chance, does anyone have a meme or picture to illustrate this? 🤔😂

Apples

it is a playable clip

Edited by Bill
  • Haha 1

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What is worse. Offering Anne Widdecombe a seat at future negotiations or offering Anne Widdecombe a seat at future negotiations? 

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7 minutes ago, Herman said:

What is worse. Offering Anne Widdecombe a seat at future negotiations or offering Anne Widdecombe a seat at future negotiations? 

offering her a seat next to you 😱

ps check pm

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2 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

we had a referendum on that...

We had an election of FPTP and AV, which can be even less proportionate.

The Lib Dems bottled offering a choice between FPTP and something actually decent.

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10 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

We had an election of FPTP and AV, which can be even less proportionate.

The Lib Dems bottled offering a choice between FPTP and something actually decent.

Not sure the Lib Dems bottled that to be fair to them. Cameron played Clegg like a marionette and used him as a very effective human shield. Think the Tories watered it down rather than Lib Dems bottling it.

Edited by kick it off

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Maybe to help RTB about Fibre.

I joined SKY in 1990, shortly after it began, one reason being we printed the free magazine you used to get, and then took on my Landline, broadband, mobile phone etc with them as they became established.

However, when fibre became available, I had to get my landline and fibre with them as they wouls not allow SKY access along our street. And they still are not allowing it, two years down the road.

They are a poor company in respect of customer service, no disrespect but I cannot understand what a chap from India is saying and constantly have to say pardon.

SKY provide a much better service but because BT own the line, I cannot use their better service.

How can it be any worse under government ownership?

We were told by Thatcher that privatising everything would produce a better service. The train service is worse. Energy supply is worse and now Fibre lags behind. You were wrong Thatcher. Profit comes before service now.

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I know this is old news but coupled with the previous video it just sums it up. I don't wish the Tory party any success but even I wouldn't be putting these silly people up to speak for them must be driving them in droves to the LibDems

Edited by keelansgrandad

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12 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Maybe to help RTB about Fibre.

I joined SKY in 1990, shortly after it began, one reason being we printed the free magazine you used to get, and then took on my Landline, broadband, mobile phone etc with them as they became established.

However, when fibre became available, I had to get my landline and fibre with them as they wouls not allow SKY access along our street. And they still are not allowing it, two years down the road.

They are a poor company in respect of customer service, no disrespect but I cannot understand what a chap from India is saying and constantly have to say pardon.

SKY provide a much better service but because BT own the line, I cannot use their better service.

How can it be any worse under government ownership?

We were told by Thatcher that privatising everything would produce a better service. The train service is worse. Energy supply is worse and now Fibre lags behind. You were wrong Thatcher. Profit comes before service now.

Wait till the free Labour Broadband turns up.

Do you think they might send us a free Corby-Pad as well?😀

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5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I don't wish the Tory party any success but even I wouldn't be putting these silly people up to speak for them must be driving them in droves to the LibDems

 

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (+3)
LAB: 30% (-)
LDEM: 15% (-)
BREX: 5% (-3)
GRN: 2% (-1)

via @PanelbaseMD, 13 - 14 Nov
Chgs. w/ 08 Nov

 

Not much sign of it yet.

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10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

We were told by Thatcher that privatising everything would produce a better service. The train service is worse. Energy supply is worse and now Fibre lags behind. You were wrong Thatcher. Profit comes before service now.

But not that this was merely part of a strategy of flogging of public assets out of the back door.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/mar/05/great-british-sell-off-how-desperate-councils-sold-91bn-of-public-assets

but as the brexit bigots have shown, who gives a **** about what is passed on to future generations as long as 'our betters' assure us that they will 'send back' all those brown faces as they are the ones robbing them

and that is what ten years of austerity have been about - a necessary cut to every public service to discourage thaose naughty foreigners from coming to the UK

that's it, and it certainly was never, nor is, about allowing the rich to get richer..............ask all those old Etonians behind it all

vote Brexit, and be proud of your stupidity

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5 minutes ago, ricardo said:
 

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (+3)
LAB: 30% (-)
LDEM: 15% (-)
BREX: 5% (-3)
GRN: 2% (-1)

via @PanelbaseMD, 13 - 14 Nov
Chgs. w/ 08 Nov

 

Not much sign of it yet.

nearly a big a lead as May had at the same stage in 2017 - though actually that was 21%

with you predicting a 70-100 seat majority 😅

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Wait till the free Labour Broadband turns up.

British Broadband please. If we add the surname we could have BBC. Otherwise it will be BJB but that sounds like a sports outfitters.

 

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15 minutes ago, ricardo said:
 

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (+3)
LAB: 30% (-)
LDEM: 15% (-)
BREX: 5% (-3)
GRN: 2% (-1)

via @PanelbaseMD, 13 - 14 Nov
Chgs. w/ 08 Nov

 

Not much sign of it yet.

I will be interested to see how the NHS stats play out in the polls but if that doesnt cause a significant shift  its hard to see whats going to change things. 

Edited by Van wink

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34 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

We were told by Thatcher that privatising everything would produce a better service. The train service is worse. Energy supply is worse and now Fibre lags behind. You were wrong Thatcher. Profit comes before service now.

This is generally true when you allow monopolies, whether government or corporate to run a service. The solution is to provide competition, which happens on the roads as an example, but not on train services.

The US is a classic example of localized monopolies in things like electricity and water and medical and internet provision, and we have some of the highest prices in the world and abysmal customer service. It was all masked in the years after WWII because everyone else had, sometimes literally, nothing; so the US was seen as "advanced", but since that time many countries have shown how to run public / private hybrids and deliver great service at fair prices. It's especially true in medical care and internet access 

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7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Wait till the free Labour Broadband turns up.

British Broadband please. If we add the surname we could have BBC. Otherwise it will be BJB but that sounds like a sports outfitters.

that idea is up against the Brexit companies policy of a free gramophone for every street, free black and white TV for every one aged over 75 and a tin can telephone for any under 14 year old boy wearing shorts all year road

and the new state broadcaster will be the BBC (Bigot Broadcasting Company) which will close at 11pm and feature news from across the empire

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1 hour ago, kick it off said:

Not sure the Lib Dems bottled that to be fair to them. Cameron played Clegg like a marionette and used him as a very effective human shield. Think the Tories watered it down rather than Lib Dems bottling it.

The Lib Dems let the Tories water it down. 

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