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The Positive Brexit Thread

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1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

The UK has always been an outlier in Europe, to most Brits the EU is seen in a simple transactional manner rather than the large scale integration project it’s looked at on the continent 

No, it hasn't. For hundreds of years England was part of a continental Roman, Scandanavian, Norman French or Catholic "empire", and in the centuries since then, we've had to go back in and rebuild alliances every time we drifted too far away from it and a superpower was forming - Spain, France or Germany. 

I agree we have a tendency to want to ignore Europe, and we don't like large scale political integration, but this phase - Brexit - looks like yet another chapter of "in again, out again".

 

p.s Waterloo. One of our most celebrate military victories, on the outskirts of Brussels, fought with our allies The Netherlands and Germany (Prussia) against the superstate France.

Edited by Surfer

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37 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Leave Voters Empire.

Remainers: world leadership.

There, fixed it for you. 

How is that fixed? Please tell me why it’s acceptable to want to Remain in the EU as it they believe it makes Britain a powerful world leader, but wrong if Leave voters wanted to be a strong voice independently? 

Ignoring of course I’ve never met a single Leave voter who wants to resurrect the Empire, or attempt to be a superpower again, many Remainers however seem overly worried about Britain being less able to influence others if we’re not part of the EU. Which one is dreaming of Empire? 

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39 minutes ago, Surfer said:

No, it hasn't. For hundreds of years England was part of a continental Roman, Scandanavian, Norman French or Catholic "empire", and in the centuries since then, we've had to go back in and rebuild alliances every time we drifted too far away from it and a superpower was forming - Spain, France or Germany. 

I agree we have a tendency to want to ignore Europe, and we don't like large scale political integration, but this phase - Brexit - looks like yet another chapter of "in again, out again".

 

p.s Waterloo. One of our most celebrate military victories, on the outskirts of Brussels, fought with our allies The Netherlands and Germany (Prussia) against the superstate France.

Apologies, I should have said an outlier to the EU rather than Europe as a whole. You’re correct that our history is intertwined with most countries on the continent, with constantly shifting enemies and alliances, but that has very little to do with wanting to Leave the latest political union. As you’ve pointed out it’s happened numerous times in the past and will likely happen numerous times in the future as countries adapt to their changing situations 

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7 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I don't keep his company, it's just a clip from you-tube that tells the truth, it would be better if you concentrated on what was being said  rather than who it was coming from.

You still haven't figured out the difference between someone's opinion and fact. That is where Brexiters have always headed in the wrong direction. 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

You still haven't figured out the difference between someone's opinion and fact. That is where Brexiters have always headed in the wrong direction. 

I listen when someone's opinion is correct  !

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9 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I don't keep his company, it's just a clip from you-tube that tells the truth, it would be better if you concentrated on what was being said  rather than who it was coming from.

The source is always important, it enables us to understand how much credance to give the commentary. In this case the source is an unsavourary RWNJ, too extreme for even the outreaches of the Conservative Pary. You say this is the truth, but there is nothing to back this up. It is just opinion, and you were just trolling. Grow up

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9 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Even if the NHS budget had been considerably more for the last 20 years, our ICU capacity wouldn’t be much higher than it currently is. ICU’s are incredibly expensive to build and run, and the NHS isn’t going to use large parts of its budget building more than it needs “just in case”. I agree I’d like to see the Health Budget increase, but if it had it would have been spent on other sectors. 

The PPE issue is a worldwide problem, there simply isn’t enough being produced as nearly every country on the planet is now bulk buying it. Germany is in a better position than most as it’s fairly unique amongst developed nations in that it still has a large manufacturing sector, and has been able to convert and ramp up production much more quickly than almost everyone else. They also count their mortality figures differently to the UK or the French. If somebody dies of an underlying health condition whilst having corona it doesn’t automatically get counted towards the disease like most countries are.

The herd immunity was clearly under guidance of the nations scientists, and was abandoned as new predictions came to light. Though it has to be said France locker down quicker than the UK and it their figures are largely the same as ours. Likewise Sweden and Japan stayed almost completely open, and for a long time had much better infection rates, although both now do seem to be changing tack. There simply isn’t a one size fits all policy to contain the virus, what works in one country doesn’t always work in another. 

Whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, I don’t think the situation in the UK would currently be any different had Labour won the last election instead of the Tories, as the information and scientific advice available to make decisions would be largely the same

So with hindsight it is not going well, is it.

Gemany seem fine turning out far higher number of tests, why is that?

Don't you think that the 17,000 beds the Conservatives have cut since 2010 would have been useful in this crisis? Or attempting to fill some of the 100,000 vacancies the NHS has?

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29 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I listen when someone's opinion is correct  !

Pretty disturbing that you watch videos by s ex offenders. Says a lot about your moral compass. You’ll use anything to try and prove the EU are supervillains (even if it’s lies). Swindo, you’re morally bankrupt mate 👍🏻

Edited by Hoola Han Solo

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Even the bad people have some good opinions !

I ASK AGAIN           So do you believe everything is fine for Italy in the EU ?

Edited by SwindonCanary

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5 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Even the bad people have some good opinions !

I ASK AGAIN           So do you believe everything is fine for Italy in the EU ?

With that attitude you would probably have been a Hitler supporter 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣

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20 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

So do you believe everything is fine for Italy in the EU ?

Like the UK most of Italy's problems are self inflicted. The EU of course will get the blame, that's what populists do, but the reality is their own **** poor governance. 

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poor governance ? It's clear there is no support from the EU Its time you read up on it !

Edited by SwindonCanary

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22 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

poor governance ? It's clear there is no support from the EU Its time you read up on it !

No evidence for this, except the usual suspects with an axe to grind. We were told that the EU would fall apart after Brexit, it hasn't happened, there is no sign it will happen and in fact more countries are in the process of joining.

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

You still haven't figured out the difference between someone's opinion and fact. That is where Brexiters have always headed in the wrong direction. 

 

1 hour ago, Herman said:

How do you know it is correct? Do you fact check? 

 

45 minutes ago, Herman said:

Like the UK most of Italy's problems are self inflicted. The EU of course will get the blame, that's what populists do, but the reality is their own **** poor governance. 

 

12 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I refer you to our friend @Herman's repeated replies, the answer remains the same. Italy are not leaving the EU because it is not in that countries best interest and the Italian government knows that. Yes, you can google and find there is unhappiness, it would be surprising in this situation if there wasn't. But it doesn't change the fundamentals. It also doesn't make the UK's position in this crisis any better, or in the negotiations that have stopped any stronger.

Edited by BigFish

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EU top scientist has resigned citing the bloc's poor response to the current health crisis. The President of the European Research Council, Mauro Ferrari, resigned yesterday saying that he has been extremely disappointed by the European response to this crisis. And for the avoidance of doubt, the European Research Council is an arm of the European Union.

  • Confused 1

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1 hour ago, BigFish said:

So with hindsight it is not going well, is it.

Gemany seem fine turning out far higher number of tests, why is that?

Don't you think that the 17,000 beds the Conservatives have cut since 2010 would have been useful in this crisis? Or attempting to fill some of the 100,000 vacancies the NHS has?

Because, as I said, Germany has a large manufacturing sector which has been able to adapt much more quickly than the UK or France, who’s economies are much more service based and don’t have the facilities. Germany also has Bayer, one of the worlds top pharmaceuticals.

Secondly I’ll agree more beds and nurses would make things easier, of course they would, but it’s not something we can pull out if the air in s matter of days. With the facilities available to the government at the time of the outbreak I think they’ve handled it reasonably well.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

poor governance ? It's clear there is no support from the EU Its time you read up on it !

Poor governance by the Prime Minister and the Conservatives early on in this crisis has seen us playing catch up. Maybe you should direct your bigoted ignorance closer to home, Swindo 👍🏻

Edited by Hoola Han Solo

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Poor governance by the Prime Minister and the Conservatives early on in this crisis has seen us playing catch up. Maybe you should direct your bigoted ignorance closer to home, Swindon

Don't you realize that it was not our government's fault. They were taking advice from our virus experts

Edited by SwindonCanary

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10 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Poor governance by the Prime Minister and the Conservatives early on in this crisis has seen us playing catch up. Maybe you should direct your bigoted ignorance closer to home, Swindon

Don't you realize that it was not our government's fault. They were taking advice from our virus experts

Taking advice yes. They made the final decisions. 

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30 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Poor governance by the Prime Minister and the Conservatives early on in this crisis has seen us playing catch up. Maybe you should direct your bigoted ignorance closer to home, Swindon

Don't you realize that it was not our government's fault. They were taking advice from our virus experts

This is just an excuse, the majority of experts knew the government's approach was wrong. But Cummings thought differently!

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1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

Germany also has Bayer, one of the worlds top pharmaceuticals.

Secondly I’ll agree more beds and nurses would make things easier, of course they would, but it’s not something we can pull out if the air in s matter of days. With the facilities available to the government at the time of the outbreak I think they’ve handled it reasonably well.

The UK has AstraZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline.

For a government that is supposedly doing so well it is strange that it looks like the impact of Covid-19 on the UK is likely to be larger than any other European country. Admit it, they have ****ed this up

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11 minutes ago, BigFish said:

The UK has AstraZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline.

For a government that is supposedly doing so well it is strange that it looks like the impact of Covid-19 on the UK is likely to be larger than any other European country. Admit it, they have ****ed this up

Why would they admit to it? You know the reasoning: everything is the EU’s fault and the Tories are always blameless. Brexiteer logic.

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41 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Taking advice yes. They made the final decisions. 

 

I see, to you lot the government are always wrong,  Can you think of a party that would do it better ?

Edited by SwindonCanary

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7 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

 

I see, to you lot the government are always wrong,  Can you think of a party that would do it better ?

You’re lying AGAIN 🤥 

I did not say the Government are always wrong.

However in my opinion we should have been locked down a lot earlier. 250,000 at Cheltenham Festival was dangerous. Pubs and restaurants being allowed to stay open as long as they were was also a mistake.

I actually think on the whole the Government has done a good job communicating the lockdown guidelines (although some of the regulations have been sketchy).

Boris Johnson admitting he shaked hands with Corona patients was a huge and stupid error.

Do you not think they have made mistakes?

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