The Positive Brexit Thread

[ricardo 7,339]

7 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

 My money would be on delivery driver but that's just a wild guess and no doubt @ricardo will be telling me that it's not a value bet 😀

I would strongly advise keeping your money in your pocket😉

[Herman 9,710]

13 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

It would be daft to not take advantage of the scheme while we’re still paying towards the budget would it not?

It would have been daft not to join a procurement scheme for medical equipment with our EU friends, would it not? But we did for some reason. Ho-hum, at least we are seeing a bit of sense.

[Fen Canary 787]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

It would have been daft not to join a procurement scheme for medical equipment with our EU friends, would it not? But we did for some reason. Ho-hum, at least we are seeing a bit of sense.

How many ventilators has been delivered so far from that procurement scheme? If the government is happy to use other EU schemes when it suits them I’d argue it wasn’t simply ideology that stopped the joining the ventilator one. Perhaps they believe they can get more ventilators more quickly on their own, or would be required to share ventilators under the scheme? I’m sure there was much more to it than simply giving two fingers to Brussels 

[SwindonCanary 455]

 

[Surfer 1,547]

Blah blah blah. I'll be happy send you some links from the US with an equal amount of BS. Maybe you should worry about Britain and it's place in the new world order.... 

 

Epoch Times - motto "Truth and Tradition" is a good example. Maybe you should subscribe Swindon.

https://subscribe.theepochtimes.com/p/?page=sem&utm_medium=Search&utm_source=GoogleSearch&utm_campaign=ACC1-337SC-BrandedTier-1&utm_content=no_targeting&utm_term=theepochtimes&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvdjY2rzX6AIVE9tkCh301wT8EAAYASAAEgKBs_D_BwE

Edited April 7, 2020 by Surfer

[Herman 9,710]

6 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

How many ventilators has been delivered so far from that procurement scheme? If the government is happy to use other EU schemes when it suits them I’d argue it wasn’t simply ideology that stopped the joining the ventilator one. Perhaps they believe they can get more ventilators more quickly on their own, or would be required to share ventilators under the scheme? I’m sure there was much more to it than simply giving two fingers to Brussels 

Blah, blah bollox as well . It's just Brexit dogma getting in the way of sensible cooperation. You know it. I know it. 

[Herman 9,710]

5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Blah blah blah. I'll be happy send you some links from the US with an equal amount of BS. Maybe you should worry about Britain and it's place in the new world order.... 

People like Swindon spend their time searching the Internet trying to find reasons for their arseholery. They come up with one dodgy, unproven video. That's how crappy their decision was. 

[BigFish 1,986]

9 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think that even under the current restrictions you are entirely at liberty to clap for these people as long as you are at least 2m away from anyone else who thinks the same way, which quite frankly I don't think will be too much of a problem.

As a staunch Brexiteer yourself I just wonder (out of sheer morbid curiosity!) which of those four categories do you fall into, checkout staff, delivery driver, shelf stacker or bus driver? My money would be on delivery driver but that's just a wild guess and no doubt @ricardo will be telling me that it's not a value bet 😀

Pensioner?

[Fen Canary 787]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Blah, blah bollox as well . It's just Brexit dogma getting in the way of sensible cooperation. You know it. I know it. 

We don’t know it though do we. You want to believe it because you hate the Tories and your fellow countrymen and women who voted Leave. It doesn’t make it true. The only people who know why the government decided to not use the EU scheme are the government

[Herman 9,710]

Ask yourself why they had to make three or so different reasons why they didn't go along with it. 

[Fen Canary 787]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

Ask yourself why they had to make three or so different reasons why they didn't go along with it. 

I’ve no idea Herman, but without knowing the ins and outs of what the scheme involved I’m willing to accept their judgement. Perhaps all the ventilators are going to be Chinese made and not up to standard, like all the PPE the Dutch had to throw away recently. Perhaps joining the scheme would have meant sharing any ventilators the UK managed to acquire separately to be shared with other EU countries, and the government didn’t want to appear callous be acting selfishly. Perhaps they simply believe they can get them quicker on their own, or the costs involved were astronomical. Unless you know the details of the scheme I don’t know why they turned it down. However I think if it was simply an ideological decision they wouldn’t have accepted the flight repatriation scheme either 

[BigFish 1,986]

34 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I’ve no idea Herman, but without knowing the ins and outs of what the scheme involved I’m willing to accept their judgement. Perhaps all the ventilators are going to be Chinese made and not up to standard, like all the PPE the Dutch had to throw away recently. Perhaps joining the scheme would have meant sharing any ventilators the UK managed to acquire separately to be shared with other EU countries, and the government didn’t want to appear callous be acting selfishly. Perhaps they simply believe they can get them quicker on their own, or the costs involved were astronomical. Unless you know the details of the scheme I don’t know why they turned it down. However I think if it was simply an ideological decision they wouldn’t have accepted the flight repatriation scheme either 

If any of these reasons were true it would have been simpler for the government to have come out with it. Instead, the government came out with several reasons that have been proven to be untrue. You are right that we don't know the answer but the logical assumptions are either the government is being economical with the truth or it is down to incompetence. Neither is a good look. Neither encourages the taking of what the government says on face value.

[Fen Canary 787]

41 minutes ago, BigFish said:

If any of these reasons were true it would have been simpler for the government to have come out with it. Instead, the government came out with several reasons that have been proven to be untrue. You are right that we don't know the answer but the logical assumptions are either the government is being economical with the truth or it is down to incompetence. Neither is a good look. Neither encourages the taking of what the government says on face value.

I’m not sure the government coming out and saying either they don’t want to buy them because they don’t trust the Chinese manufacturing, or that they don’t want to share with anybody else, would be particularly good for international relations however 

[Herman 9,710]

Do you not get tired of having to come up with lame excuses for poor decision making? 

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

14 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think that even under the current restrictions you are entirely at liberty to clap for these people as long as you are at least 2m away from anyone else who thinks the same way, which quite frankly I don't think will be too much of a problem.

As a staunch Brexiteer yourself I just wonder (out of sheer morbid curiosity!) which of those four categories do you fall into, checkout staff, delivery driver, shelf stacker or bus driver? My money would be on delivery driver but that's just a wild guess and no doubt @ricardo will be telling me that it's not a value bet 😀

I can hopefully satisfy your morbid curiosity that I have at various times performed two out of the four jobs mentioned, along with other manual jobs. My first paid work started when I was 13. 

[SHRIMPER 328]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

 My first paid work started when I was 13. 

Rent boy.

[BigFish 1,986]

17 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

 

Nice company you keep @SwindonCanary, posting clips from a man who resigned from the Tories and his position with Conservative Future before they kicked him out (some achievement ejection from the Tories). It was related to allegations against that organisations' leadership of sexual abuse, bullying, blackmail and molestation leading to the suicide of a 21 year old man. Class. http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6145/newsnight_conservative_future_leadership_stripped_of_their_positions

[Fen Canary 787]

10 hours ago, Herman said:

Do you not get tired of having to come up with lame excuses for poor decision making? 

I’m not trying to defend poor decision making, I simply don’t believe the whole pandemic has been handled that badly. 

[BigFish 1,986]

35 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m not trying to defend poor decision making, I simply don’t believe the whole pandemic has been handled that badly. 

You may think that, but by any objective measure it is difficult to argue it has been managed well. Both in the short term and the long term. Long term the NHS was clearly under resourced, and deliberately under resourced for political reasons. Short term the whole herd immunity approach is now clearly a catastrophic error that has cost lives, the lack of PPE is a public scandal and the testing regime is a disaster. Sunak can be praised for the furlough support in terms of scale and ambition but even then the loans to small business plan crashed and burned and it took him three attempts to land a successful budget.

What is worse is the givernment know they have cocked up and are now fighting like rats in a sack over it. Attempting to blame each other and the civil service. I'll give them this is difficult, but it is also far from a success.

[Surfer 1,547]

11 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m not sure the government coming out and saying either they don’t want to buy them because they don’t trust the Chinese manufacturing, or that they don’t want to share with anybody else, would be particularly good for international relations however 

Yeh but Brexit is. I see. 

Face it. They either dropped the ball, or wanted not to participate. When called on it, they put out a "the dog ate my homework" lie to try and cover it up. Then direct evidence came that they DID participate in the discussions. So why lie? Why always lie? 

 

BTW where is the Russia report? 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

16 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Yeh but Brexit is. I see. 

Face it. They either dropped the ball, or wanted not to participate. When called on it, they put out a "the dog ate my homework" lie to try and cover it up. Then direct evidence came that they DID participate in the discussions. So why lie? Why always lie? 

 

BTW where is the Russia report? 

 

Now now Surfer. You know you mustn't ask such awkward fact based questions of the Brexiters. They don't like it.

Whatever happened to the Kim Darroch leaker too? Another one conveniently forgotten?

[Fen Canary 787]

50 minutes ago, BigFish said:

You may think that, but by any objective measure it is difficult to argue it has been managed well. Both in the short term and the long term. Long term the NHS was clearly under resourced, and deliberately under resourced for political reasons. Short term the whole herd immunity approach is now clearly a catastrophic error that has cost lives, the lack of PPE is a public scandal and the testing regime is a disaster. Sunak can be praised for the furlough support in terms of scale and ambition but even then the loans to small business plan crashed and burned and it took him three attempts to land a successful budget.

What is worse is the givernment know they have cocked up and are now fighting like rats in a sack over it. Attempting to blame each other and the civil service. I'll give them this is difficult, but it is also far from a success.

Even if the NHS budget had been considerably more for the last 20 years, our ICU capacity wouldn’t be much higher than it currently is. ICU’s are incredibly expensive to build and run, and the NHS isn’t going to use large parts of its budget building more than it needs “just in case”. I agree I’d like to see the Health Budget increase, but if it had it would have been spent on other sectors. 

The PPE issue is a worldwide problem, there simply isn’t enough being produced as nearly every country on the planet is now bulk buying it. Germany is in a better position than most as it’s fairly unique amongst developed nations in that it still has a large manufacturing sector, and has been able to convert and ramp up production much more quickly than almost everyone else. They also count their mortality figures differently to the UK or the French. If somebody dies of an underlying health condition whilst having corona it doesn’t automatically get counted towards the disease like most countries are.

The herd immunity was clearly under guidance of the nations scientists, and was abandoned as new predictions came to light. Though it has to be said France locker down quicker than the UK and it their figures are largely the same as ours. Likewise Sweden and Japan stayed almost completely open, and for a long time had much better infection rates, although both now do seem to be changing tack. There simply isn’t a one size fits all policy to contain the virus, what works in one country doesn’t always work in another. 

Whilst hindsight is a wonderful thing, I don’t think the situation in the UK would currently be any different had Labour won the last election instead of the Tories, as the information and scientific advice available to make decisions would be largely the same

[Fen Canary 787]

13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Now now Surfer. You know you mustn't ask such awkward fact based questions of the Brexiters. They don't like it.

Whatever happened to the Kim Darroch leaker too? Another one conveniently forgotten?

Historically Labour and the left has looked up to Russia more than the right, and Corbyn would be much more sympathetic to them over the US. Wouldn’t Russia have tried to help Labour win the election rather than the Tories?

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

13 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Historically Labour and the left has looked up to Russia more than the right, and Corbyn would be much more sympathetic to them over the US. Wouldn’t Russia have tried to help Labour win the election rather than the Tories?

Of course not.

Putin (and Trump) don't want a strong Europe. A weakened fragmented Europe is what Russia in particular has been working for for years. Brexit is a gift !

Pretty sure it was congrats and party time all round on the Brexit result in the Kremlin. UK kicked into the very long grass.

Lost in time, lost in space..... and meaning.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[Fen Canary 787]

21 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Of course not.

Putin (and Trump) don't want a strong Europe. A weakened fragmented Europe is what Russia in particular has been working for for years. Brexit is a gift !

Pretty sure it was congrats and party time all round on the Brexit result in the Kremlin. UK kicked into the very long grass.

Lost in time, lost in space..... and meaning.

I think the single currency and the economic argument it’s causing is doing more to divide the EU than Brexit ever will. The UK has always been an outlier in Europe, to most Brits the EU is seen in a simple transactional manner rather than the large scale integration project it’s looked at on the continent 

[SwindonCanary 455]

6 hours ago, BigFish said:

Nice company you keep @SwindonCanary, posting clips from a man who resigned from the Tories and his position with Conservative Future before they kicked him out (some achievement ejection from the Tories). It was related to allegations against that organisations' leadership of sexual abuse, bullying, blackmail and molestation leading to the suicide of a 21 year old man. Class. http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6145/newsnight_conservative_future_leadership_stripped_of_their_positions

I don't keep his company, it's just a clip from you-tube that tells the truth, it would be better if you concentrated on what was being said  rather than who it was coming from.

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

17 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I think the single currency and the economic argument it’s causing is doing more to divide the EU than Brexit ever will. The UK has always been an outlier in Europe, to most Brits the EU is seen in a simple transactional manner rather than the large scale integration project it’s looked at on the continent 

No again. Before the so called single currency (which for the record is not the EU) Europe was even more fragmented and weaker. Brexit has simply robbed the UK of influence and leadership.

[Fen Canary 787]

51 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No again. Before the so called single currency (which for the record is not the EU) Europe was even more fragmented and weaker. Brexit has simply robbed the UK of influence and leadership.

I’m not sure the Italians or the Greeks would agree with you there.

Also what is it with Remain voters constantly going on about Britain’s influence and leadership? I thought it was Leave voters who harked back to the days of the Empire and the UK being a world leader? 

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

Historically Labour and the left has looked up to Russia more than the right, and Corbyn would be much more sympathetic to them over the US. Wouldn’t Russia have tried to help Labour win the election rather than the Tories?

Ah yes, there is that history thing. Russia was an absolute monarchy, then a Communist state and now a Fascist dictatorship in all but name. So no, it wouldn't have tried to help Labour, just like it didn't try and help H. Clinton 

At this time it's all about money laundering and they know which of the parties will help them do just that. 

So as I said, where is the Russia report? 

[Surfer 1,547]

13 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m not sure the Italians or the Greeks would agree with you there.

Also what is it with Remain voters constantly going on about Britain’s influence and leadership? I thought it was Leave voters who harked back to the days of the Empire and the UK being a world leader? 

Leave Voters : Empire.

Remainers: world leadership.

There, fixed it for you.