The Positive Brexit Thread

[ricardo 7,348]

4 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I agree but they're making a really poor fist of it.....😂

Not according to the latest polling👍

[Fen Canary 796]

13 minutes ago, Herman said:

One's a fascist.

One's an idiot.

One's a liar.

One's a right wing lobby group.

They don't actively campaign to scrap the NHS because as you know that is electoral suicide. But their free market views are clearly known and the NHS is number one target, closely followed by the BBC.

You know a person by the friends they keep.

Farage may be many things, but he certainly isn’t a fascist. If you think he is then you need to look up what fascism actually is. If you can find any quotes where he openly supports genuine fascists such as Franco or Mussolini then I’ll change my mind but I’d wager you can’t.

Secondly, do you support ever personal opinion of every single Labour MP? Even those that contradict their fellow party members?  As I’ve said just because I agree with them on the EU doesn’t mean I have to agree with them on anything else. If any party ever tried to dismantle the NHS it would be electoral suicide, therefore I think it’s quite safe. Even switching to the more privately run European models would be too much for most voters, the NHS is one of the few things in this country that holds cross party support. 

Finally “You know a person by the friends they keep” was a line used against Corbyn numerous times during the election, due to his friendships with terrorists in Ireland and the Middle East. It was denounced by Labour supporters then as nonsense, so I’m surprised you’re using it now against people who merely have a different viewpoint to yourself 

 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Not according to the latest polling👍

CON: 54% (+7) LAB: 28% (-4) LDEM: 6% (-1) GRN: 3% (-1)

[Fen Canary 796]

26 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I'm afraid trying to rewrite history is not going to get you very far but you're obviously determined to try............🙄

Blair with his Private Finance Initiatives allowed the private sector much more access to the NHS than any other government I can remember

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Not according to the latest polling👍

Really?

I didn't realise that you, Fen, VW, RTB et al had your own polling numbers

[ricardo 7,348]

[Van wink 2,994]

7 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Blair with his Private Finance Initiatives allowed the private sector much more access to the NHS than any other government I can remember

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/jan/15/Whitehall.schools

"The PFI, the most well-known form of PPP, refers to a strictly defined legal contract for involving private companies in the provision of public services, particularly public buildings.

It was introduced under the Tories in 1992 but did not take off until Labour took office. According to the NHS plan, more than 100 new hospitals will be provided using the PFI by 2010. In 2001-02 the PFI accounted for 9% of public investment."

Edited March 30, 2020 by Van wink

[ricardo 7,348]

Amazing, even a majority of Labour supporters think he's doing well.

Now there is a funny thing😀

[ricardo 7,348]

6 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Blair with his Private Finance Initiatives allowed the private sector much more access to the NHS than any other government I can remember

Took the credit for building hospitals and left the bill for someone else to pick up.

[Herman 9,717]

3 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I agree but they're making a really poor fist of it.....😂

I know. For a long time "lefties", as they like to call everyone, have been warning that you can't cut away all the safety nets, you have to keep the NHS funded properly, you have to treat workers better and with respect and many other problems that austerity, especially, is causing. These warnings always got short shrift from brexiters who'd rather blame immigrants or the EU.

Now the **** has truly hit the fan they are trying to pat themselves on the back for doing a good job, even though their decisions have exacerbated a truly terrible situation.

We see you.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

Just now, ricardo said:

Yes lovely but Herman was suggesting that you and some of your fellow brexiteers posting on here were trying to distance themselves from what you voted for.

So I'm not too sure what relevance national polls have to his point but I notice that you're sticking by your belief that politics and political views in this country are always a simple binary choice. If only the real world was so straightforward............

[ricardo 7,348]

Everything is Brexit with you Herman, you keep this thread alive on your own most of the time. Remainery is done mate, its like walking around in flared trousers.

Give it a break and talk about football.

[ricardo 7,348]

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes lovely but Herman was suggesting that you and some of your fellow brexiteers posting on here were trying to distance themselves from what you voted for.

So I'm not too sure what relevance national polls have to his point but I notice that you're sticking by your belief that politics and political views in this country are always a simple binary choice. If only the real world was so straightforward............

Its you boys desperately clinging to Brexit and trying to attatch it to every other news item.

time to give it a rest.

[Herman 9,717]

There is no football y'idiot.

Here you go. They're still lying to you. You're still cheering.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

[ricardo 7,348]

3 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

 

So I'm not too sure what relevance national polls have to his point but I notice that you're sticking by your belief that politics and political views in this country are always a simple binary choice. If only the real world was so straightforward............

We have been long aware of your love for PR.

It lost in a referendum by quite a margin.

[ricardo 7,348]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

There is no football y'idiot.

Here you go. They're still lying to you. You're still cheering.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

And you are still desperate to hang on to Brussels.

[Herman 9,717]

Just trying to wake you up.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

We have been long aware of your love for PR.

It lost in a referendum by quite a margin.

No it didnt -  Alternative Vote lost by quite a margin which is no real surprise as it isn't PR and is only a fairly minor improvement on the totally useless system we already have.

[ricardo 7,348]

10 minutes ago, Herman said:

Just trying to wake you up.

Too late mate, Mrs R has just made the Ovaltine😁

 

9 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

No it didnt -  Alternative Vote lost by quite a margin which is no real surprise as it isn't PR and is only a fairly minor improvement on the totally useless system we already have.

I would agree with that apart from the word improvement.

I know your argument, you have expressed it many times.  I just don't find it convincing and neither did Blair when he thought about it after his stonking 1997 victory. I can't see any party supporting it apart from the also rans.

Edited March 30, 2020 by ricardo

[Herman 9,717]

9 hours ago, ricardo said:

Everything is Brexit with you Herman, you keep this thread alive on your own most of the time. Remainery is done mate, its like walking around in flared trousers.

Give it a break and talk about football.

It's your RWNJ mates Winky and Fen that keep bumping it. I am more than happy to wait to give you lot a kicking once this disaster is over. 

And yes I know the irony...... 

[Mello Yello 2,281]

30 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's your RWNJ mates Winky and Fen that keep bumping it. I am more than happy to wait to give you lot a kicking once this disaster is over. 

And yes I know the irony...... 

Can I assume you'll be wearing archaic/retro 'platform shoes' when you do this imaginary kicking......?  (Platform's will make you look an ickle bit taller as well)......

[SwindonCanary 455]

15 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

That is a blatant lie. We would not have had to share ventilators. Find some evidence for your claims. It’s actually quite sick that you’re using a devastating pandemic, that will cost at least hundreds of thousands of deaths, as a stick to beat the EU with.

You really are a rather unclassy, bitter and twisted gammon. Get f ucked 👍🏻

The stalker has got it wrong again !  Look up the to  EU scheme to get extra ventilators.

FROM THE EU "With widespread concerns about our ventilator capacity and the urgent need to scale up capacity we should be co-operating through international schemes and share production and distribution, to ensure we get these desperately need pieces of kit.”

Edited March 31, 2020 by SwindonCanary

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

The stalker has got it wrong again !  Look up the to  EU scheme to get extra ventilators.

FROM THE EU "With widespread concerns about our ventilator capacity and the urgent need to scale up capacity we should be co-operating through international schemes and share production and distribution, to ensure we get these desperately need pieces of kit.”

So sharing resources is a bad thing? Explain your reasoning.

And also explain why you’re so sick in bringing this up to attack the EU during these awful times?

You really are morally bankrupt Swindo 👍🏻

[BigFish 1,986]

14 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Economists then. That’s no great surprise as they’d be against anything they see as not free market. However you know as well as I do if any party seriously campaigned on scrapping the NHS in favour of the American system they’d never be voted in ever again 

Farage, Hannan & Gove are economists are they?? This comes from the murky world of Brexit, various right wing streams of libertarian ideology. To that list you can add Hunt and the Taxpayers Alliance and many of the leading Brexiteers in the Conservative party and even the cabinet. They really thought this possible, it is only events that has taken away their opportunity.

As for being honest enough to campaign in an election for it, although they happily started propagandising for it, it is these ideas that have led to privitisation by stealth, underfunding, the removal of funding for nurse training, the axing of 17,000 beds and the running of a system with 100,000 vacancies. These ideas cause harm, whether they can be follwed through of not.

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

19 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

That is a blatant lie. We would not have had to share ventilators. Find some evidence for your claims. It’s actually quite sick that you’re using a devastating pandemic, that will cost at least hundreds of thousands of deaths, as a stick to beat the EU with.

You really are a rather unclassy, bitter and twisted gammon. Get f ucked 👍🏻

Germany actually banned the export of medical equipment. A sort of 'you're all in it together - but not us'

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

14 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Its been a political football because we have an adversarial two party political system based on a dysfunctional first past the post voting system.

Funnily enough it is also a political football in the US where they also have an adversarial two party political system based on a dysfunctional first past the post voting system.

But you're right that most other countries with multi-party politics based on fairer voting systems have managed to reach much more of a consensus on how best to deliver health care and indeed other public services such as education - another political football in both the UK and US but scarcely anywhere else that comes to mind.

Funny that....

Well if you are referring to Europe in your reply then most of those European countries have a massive private insurance presence in their health funding arrangements in the form of employment insurance schemes. Which is actually the subject of some of the publications that Herman was trying to knock. 

I also notice, especially since the vieus crisis, a lot of complaints on here on how the continental systems are so much better funded than our NHS and how we are so much worse than them. So it seems typically hypocritical for the usual suspects to wail about underfunding on the one hand and yet wail when anyone suggests there might be better ways of funding the NHS and using the continentals as an example. 

The truth is the Labour party hugely screwed up NHS funding with their badly thought-out PFI plans and lumbered the country with a massively expensive financial mess

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

So sharing resources is a bad thing? Explain your reasoning.

And also explain why you’re so sick in bringing this up to attack the EU during these awful times?

You really are morally bankrupt Swindon 👍🏻

You were saying I was lying,  all I said was we would have to share, now you are jumping on the moral bandwagon !  You really are someone who's got it in for me !

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

1 hour ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

So sharing resources is a bad thing? Explain your reasoning.

And also explain why you’re so sick in bringing this up to attack the EU during these awful times?

You really are morally bankrupt Swindo 👍🏻

Your first post you said we wouldn't have to share ventilators under EU rules. Then when Swindon posts evidence of your lie you switch to say what is wrong with sharing 

Your argument is about as coherent as a saloon bar's expert. 

Give it up mate. You try to stick everything onto Brexit. You still can't let go can you even when the world has moved on. 

[A Load of Squit 5,135]

18 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

You were saying I was lying,  all I said was we would have to share, now you are jumping on the moral bandwagon !  You really are someone who's got it in for me !

"If we had remained in,all our ventilators would have to be shared. "

The lie was you said "all our ventilators".

No-one has been forced to give up ventilators, it was a suggestion.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by A Load of Squit

[SwindonCanary 455]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

"If we had remained in,all our ventilators would have to be shared. "

The lie was you said "all our ventilators".

No-one has been forced to give up ventilators, it was a suggestion.

 

 

OK   Maybe I phrased it wrong (it was not lying ) I should have wrote some of our ventilates