The Positive Brexit Thread

[Badger 2,405]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I truly think the UK economy is built on sand (financial services and easy money) and when any of these 'earthquakes' occurs it always liquifies and everything sinks. Really should be a wake up call.

I have sympathy with this view, but where else can you put money to finance a retirement?

BTW - that was only partly rhetorical 

[Badger 2,405]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

So we can agree the EU has done nothing in support of the people suffering from the Wuhan virus. Which isn't surprising because in difficult times people want to turn to their country for help because that's where like-minded folks live and where the natural bond lies. We all want to look to kith and kin for support in these trying times. Which exposes the EU for the toothless behemoth that it really is. 

On a positive note, I get the feeling that the UK experts truly have the best interests of the people at heart and I have the utmost confidence in their abilities. 

Sorry RTB but you really don't get it do you? 

You are now describing the EU as "toothless", when previously supposed to be "a European superstate". It never was that - this was only propaganda to deceive the gullible. It employs 55,000 staff across 28 countries (average c 2000 per country).  Lloyd's bank employs 75,000 by way of contrast. It doesn't have the powers you were told it had and never did but you seem to have just swallowed the propaganda without any critical understanding.

I'm not quite clear what your criticism of the EU is - is it because it is too powerful - or not powerful enough?

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

So we can agree the EU has done nothing in support of the people suffering from the Wuhan virus. Which isn't surprising because in difficult times people want to turn to their country for help because that's where like-minded folks live and where the natural bond lies. We all want to look to kith and kin for support in these trying times. Which exposes the EU for the toothless behemoth that it really is. 

On a positive note, I get the feeling that the UK experts truly have the best interests of the people at heart and I have the utmost confidence in their abilities. 

Constructing a straw man argument with misinformation just so you can have a pop at the EU. You really are very bitter aren’t you?

 

[Herman 9,751]

On 19/03/2020 at 11:46, ricardo said:

Now Barnier down with it.

David Frost now as well. All the best to them.

[BigFish 1,986]

6 minutes ago, Herman said:

David Frost now as well. All the best to them.

Still, we'll get the talks completed by the end of June as required, no problem.

Johnson says so.

 

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

Nasty and unnecessarily divisive. Is it the proof that EU member states are and have been independent and sovereign all along the thing that upsets you?

Nope. I am very happy to be proved right that the EU is a busted flush. 

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Sorry RTB but you really don't get it do you? 

You are now describing the EU as "toothless", when previously supposed to be "a European superstate". It never was that - this was only propaganda to deceive the gullible. It employs 55,000 staff across 28 countries (average c 2000 per country).  Lloyd's bank employs 75,000 by way of contrast. It doesn't have the powers you were told it had and never did but you seem to have just swallowed the propaganda without any critical understanding.

I'm not quite clear what your criticism of the EU is - is it because it is too powerful - or not powerful enough?

It's a toothless European superstate, living off the backs of smaller nations in order to enrich Germany. It is a bully. It tried to bully the UK as it bullied Greece, Italy, Ireland - in fact most of the other states. But like we find with most bullies it has no substance, and in the biggest global crisis of our times it has nothing to offer. It will soon be gone. 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

It seems to me RTB as per many Brexiters define themselves as being anti EU. Has nothing to do with what is best for the UK. Oh well.

[Fen Canary 811]

This current crisis does highlight many peoples problems with the EU, in that what is it trying to be? If it’s merely nation states trading and cooperating on key issues, why does it need a multi billion pound budget, Parliament, Commission and President, why does it have it’s own courts, rules and budget laws, as well as it’s own currency? There’s no need for all that if it’s simply nation states, they could have something similar to the Asian TPPA agreement.

If however it’s much more than that, if it see’s itself as above nation states, able to threaten the Italian government over its proposed budget, the Polish over their judiciary, implement crippling austerity on the Greeks etc, then where is it during those countries times of need? Before the virus the way it largely dumped the migrant crisis on Italy and Greece was shameful, now with Covid there is little in the way of practical help for Italy or Spain, in fact the EU Courts fined Italy during the middle of the crisis for using state aid to prop up tourism in Sardinia. 

The EUcant demand ever closer union then simply leave members to fend for themselves during a crisis 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

This current crisis does highlight many peoples problems with the EU, in that what is it trying to be? If it’s merely nation states trading and cooperating on key issues, why does it need a multi billion pound budget, Parliament, Commission and President, why does it have it’s own courts, rules and budget laws, as well as it’s own currency? There’s no need for all that if it’s simply nation states, they could have something similar to the Asian TPPA agreement.

If however it’s much more than that, if it see’s itself as above nation states, able to threaten the Italian government over its proposed budget, the Polish over their judiciary, implement crippling austerity on the Greeks etc, then where is it during those countries times of need? Before the virus the way it largely dumped the migrant crisis on Italy and Greece was shameful, now with Covid there is little in the way of practical help for Italy or Spain, in fact the EU Courts fined Italy during the middle of the crisis for using state aid to prop up tourism in Sardinia. 

The EUcant demand ever closer union then simply leave members to fend for themselves during a crisis 

wait for it .......

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

10 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Nobody knows what will really happen but it's noticeable the amount of investors contacting us - cold - has increased dramatically recently. Lots of cash looking for (any) return (and I worry about more QE  as yesterday).

I truly think the UK economy is built on sand (financial services and easy money) and when any of these 'earthquakes' occurs it always liquifies and everything sinks. Really should be a wake up call.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06193/

In 2018, the financial services sector contributed £132 billion to the UK economy, 6.9% of total economic output.

The UK financial services sector was the seventh largest in the OECD in 2018 by its proportion of national economic output.

There were 1.1 million financial services jobs in the UK, 3.1% of all jobs.

 

So financial services important but not the bedrock of our economy, only employing 3% of the workforce. 

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

51 minutes ago, Van wink said:

wait for it .......

go on, reply to him with a well-constructed argument in defence of the EU at this time. Anyone?

Edited March 20, 2020 by Rock The Boat

[Herman 9,751]

 

[Van wink 2,994]

23 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

Absolutely the right thing to do at the right time.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

13 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

But like we find with most bullies it has no substance, and in the biggest global crisis of our times it has nothing to offer. It will soon be gone. 

More appropriate to apply this sentiment to what was, until recently, the real global superstate unless you're aware of any assistance whatsoever that we've received from what is laughingly referred to as our 'special relationship'  with the US.

The only thing they've had to offer is lies and denial - until the virus punched them in the face, at which point, as usual it became everybody else's fault 🙄

[Herman 9,751]

I was going to put up Brendan O'Neill's piece but it is the same contrary  BS but in 500 words. That's all they have.

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

19 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's a toothless European superstate, living off the backs of smaller nations in order to enrich Germany. It is a bully. It tried to bully the UK as it bullied Greece, Italy, Ireland - in fact most of the other states. But like we find with most bullies it has no substance, and in the biggest global crisis of our times it has nothing to offer. It will soon be gone. 

I said the EU were bullies. Now they are trying to stop Rishi Sunak's bailout plans as being against EU rules.  This is plain and simple thuggery.  Fortunately, the British government has grown a pair since Boris became PM and we will ignore the EU. Had we given in to you Remainers today we would be eating dirt. 

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,186]

39 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

I said the EU were bullies. Now they are trying to stop Rishi Sunak's bailout plans as being against EU rules.  This is plain and simple thuggery.  Fortunately, the British government has grown a pair since Boris became PM and we will ignore the EU. Had we given in to you Remainers today we would be eating dirt. 

 

that report, the bit that isn´t paywalled, looks like bullshít

The EU plans to allow member states to spend what they like on fighting the virus

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/20/eu-suspends-budget-rules-first-time/

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-triggers-deficit-rules-escape-clause-to-boost-public-spending/

https://www.cityam.com/european-union-to-suspend-blocs-budget-rules-in-order-to-fight-coronavirus/

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-rules/unshackled-by-eu-countries-have-fiscal-freedom-to-fight-coronavirus-idUKKBN20S1T7

 

 

[Herman 9,751]

Even fellow Brexiters says it's bollox.

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

that report, the bit that isn´t paywalled, looks like bullshít

The EU plans to allow member states to spend what they like on fighting the virus

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/20/eu-suspends-budget-rules-first-time/

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-triggers-deficit-rules-escape-clause-to-boost-public-spending/

https://www.cityam.com/european-union-to-suspend-blocs-budget-rules-in-order-to-fight-coronavirus/

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-rules/unshackled-by-eu-countries-have-fiscal-freedom-to-fight-coronavirus-idUKKBN20S1T7

 

 

It is bull**** - re-assuring in a way that even in the midst of a global crisis,  its bull**** as usual from @Rock The Boat....... no sorry,  b*llocks as usual from @Rock The Boat.

OK, I'll call it business as usual from @Rock the Boat just in case he can't work out what the *s are.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Creative Midfielder

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

I said the EU were bullies. Now they are trying to stop Rishi Sunak's bailout plans as being against EU rules.  This is plain and simple thuggery.  Fortunately, the British government has grown a pair since Boris became PM and we will ignore the EU. Had we given in to you Remainers today we would be eating dirt. 

 

 

I think you'll soon have Jool''s on here telling you to shut the f**k up else you must be one of his 'Remain' double agents trying to bring the dubious 'Brexit' cause into disrepute.

So far behind the curve it's untrue.

So many senseless arguments and non-points.

As others said and I remember hearing on the radio last last week (normal news not soeme RWNJ job site) the EU waved all this through some time ago - indeed I think they want to know what else they can do to help individual states within their limited remit.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

Deny as much as you like it didn't stop the EU trying it on. Like I said we now have a PM in office who won't be bullied by the EU. If the Italians have got any sense they will ignore the EU fine for supporting their tourist industry.

[BigFish 1,986]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

It is bull**** - re-assuring in a way that even in the midst of a global crisis,  its bull**** as usual from @Rock The Boat....... no sorry,  b*llocks as usual from @Rock The Boat.

OK, I'll call it business as usual from @Rock the Boat just in case he can't work out what the *s are.

Thing is @Rock The Boat and the sock puppet @Fen Canary are fighting a culture war, rather than actually engaging in debate on the country's future. It matters not if what they post is true or not, only that it plays well with their tribe like dear old @SwindonCanary. A tribe that is largely English, provincial, older, paler and less educated, a tribe that believes they are unfairly treated and disregarded by the young, graduates, London, woman, immigrants, the EU particularly the French and Germans, the media particularly the BBC and Guardian.  A tribe for which the Express, Mail and Telegraph are the house journals

They genuinely believe what they post, even though it is without foundation, because they live in an echo chamber where such opinions are reinforced by the tribe. For this reason they have nothing, absolutely nothing, to say on the UK's future now we have left beyond the campaign slogans of 2016. They have nothing to add of coronavirus. They believe that exiting the Transition Period on the 31st December remains a good idea.

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Thing is @Rock The Boat and the sock puppet @Fen Canary are fighting a culture war, rather than actually engaging in debate on the country's future. It matters not if what they post is true or not, only that it plays well with their tribe like dear old @SwindonCanary. A tribe that is largely English, provincial, older, paler and less educated, a tribe that believes they are unfairly treated and disregarded by the young, graduates, London, woman, immigrants, the EU particularly the French and Germans, the media particularly the BBC and Guardian.  A tribe for which the Express, Mail and Telegraph are the house journals

They genuinely believe what they post, even though it is without foundation, because they live in an echo chamber where such opinions are reinforced by the tribe. For this reason they have nothing, absolutely nothing, to say on the UK's future now we have left beyond the campaign slogans of 2016. They have nothing to add of coronavirus. They believe that exiting the Transition Period on the 31st December remains a good idea.

 

It did cross my mind that 'supply chain problems' now being encountered by the car industry and others (leading to their temporary closure) makes a good dry run for WTO terms!

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,186]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Deny as much as you like it didn't stop the EU trying it on. Like I said we now have a PM in office who won't be bullied by the EU. If the Italians have got any sense they will ignore the EU fine for supporting their tourist industry.

A quick Google didn't turn up anything to support that view. If you have anything else, please share 

It does look a little like you are reaching for any stick you can find to beat the EU with 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

27 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

It did cross my mind that 'supply chain problems' now being encountered by the car industry and others (leading to their temporary closure) makes a good dry run for WTO terms!

It probably does but only if they survive the transition period (and the arrival of WTO terms) - already there have been a number of suggestions that some of the car producers in the UK currently on temporary shutdown will never re-open, for some very obvious reasons.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

39 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

A quick Google didn't turn up anything to support that view. If you have anything else, please share 

It does look a little like you are reaching for any stick you can find to beat the EU with 

Of course it didn't because @RTB is delusional, and in this instance instead of reaching for a twig that he thinks is a stick, he is actually reaching for an imaginary stick.

Equally delusional is his belief that we have a PM that can stand up to the EU - incredible really when only last Autumn the liar went into negotiations with the EU promising to improve on Theresa May's deal (which was never going to happen) only to emerge triumphally a couple of weeks later with a much worse deal than TM had arrived at - we have a Prime Minister who is as thick as pigsh*t and sadly a matching set of supporters.

[Fen Canary 811]

2 hours ago, BigFish said:

Thing is @Rock The Boat and the sock puppet @Fen Canary are fighting a culture war, rather than actually engaging in debate on the country's future. It matters not if what they post is true or not, only that it plays well with their tribe like dear old @SwindonCanary. A tribe that is largely English, provincial, older, paler and less educated, a tribe that believes they are unfairly treated and disregarded by the young, graduates, London, woman, immigrants, the EU particularly the French and Germans, the media particularly the BBC and Guardian.  A tribe for which the Express, Mail and Telegraph are the house journals

They genuinely believe what they post, even though it is without foundation, because they live in an echo chamber where such opinions are reinforced by the tribe. For this reason they have nothing, absolutely nothing, to say on the UK's future now we have left beyond the campaign slogans of 2016. They have nothing to add of coronavirus. They believe that exiting the Transition Period on the 31st December remains a good idea.

So rather than reply to my post regarding the EU in it’s current form, you simply accuse me of bigotry and ignorance, use every Remain stereotype there is because it deflects from the actual points I make? 

For what it’s worth I’m probably younger than yourself, if I’m not I certainly wouldn’t be much older. I’d class myself as reasonably intelligent, remember a degree doesn’t mean you’re knowledgeable, it simply means you’re an expert on a single subject. Unless your studies were on a subject relevant to world politics or economics, then they’re about as useful as a tradesmans certs when discussing the EU. 

You’d be correct in that I believe London receives too much of the country’s infrastructure spend, and that immigration has been used to suppress wages in certain industries, and I’ve made my opposition to the EU well known throughout this thread for the reasons I’ve stated. 

I’ve no major problem with the BBC, I don’t believe it leans too far either way. I believe a majority of the newsreaders and presenters lean heavily towards Remain, but that’s true of every major news outlet, as the majority of them will be from middle class background and went to university. 

I think the Guardian is a biased rag akin to toilet paper, I think the same about the Mail. However for me that’s a non issue, for every Sun there’s a Mirror, for every Express there’s an Observer etc. People buy the ones closest to their pre existing views. 

Finally I would hardly call this board an echo chamber, I’m in the minority when it comes to my opinions on here. I do however believe what I post, otherwise I wouldn’t post it, and I still believe leaving is the right thing to do, despite the almost 4 years of constant scare stories.

Now that that’s all cleared up, would you mind responding to the points I made on the post, rather than a poorly attempted character assassination. 

[Surfer 1,547]

On 20/03/2020 at 11:04, Rock The Boat said:

It's a toothless European superstate, living off the backs of smaller nations in order to enrich Germany. It is a bully. It tried to bully the UK as it bullied Greece, Italy, Ireland - in fact most of the other states. But like we find with most bullies it has no substance, and in the biggest global crisis of our times it has nothing to offer. It will soon be gone. 

Well there we go. It's not the EU he's p*ss*d off about it's Germany. It was always Germany, not the EU. "We won the war you know" but we then lost the peace to Germany. So rather than help the smaller countries - you know the ones that have an equal vote with Germany and therefore whom we could rely on to work with us to counteract German dominance, we walked away.

Except we can't walk away because it's a Common Market that we need for our trade. We don't have an Empire to exploit anymore. There are no "new markets ripe for dominating" that will be able to replace the pan-European market if we try and walk away from it. Throw in the eternally ungrateful French and there we have the root issue of Brexit. It was not "our club" 

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

15 hours ago, BigFish said:

Thing is @Rock The Boat and the sock puppet @Fen Canary are fighting a culture war, rather than actually engaging in debate on the country's future. It matters not if what they post is true or not, only that it plays well with their tribe like dear old @SwindonCanary. A tribe that is largely English, provincial, older, paler and less educated, a tribe that believes they are unfairly treated and disregarded by the young, graduates, London, woman, immigrants, the EU particularly the French and Germans, the media particularly the BBC and Guardian.  A tribe for which the Express, Mail and Telegraph are the house journals

They genuinely believe what they post, even though it is without foundation, because they live in an echo chamber where such opinions are reinforced by the tribe. For this reason they have nothing, absolutely nothing, to say on the UK's future now we have left beyond the campaign slogans of 2016. They have nothing to add of coronavirus. They believe that exiting the Transition Period on the 31st December remains a good idea.

Not too sure why I was dragged into this argument ?