The Positive Brexit Thread

[Herman 9,756]

With Brexit done there was a glimmer of hope that the lies and misinformation would calm down but it has started on day one. 

[Icecream Snow 761]

4 hours ago, paul moy said:

Nissan planning to invest in UK and pull out of EU if No Deal as it would aim to garner 20% of the UK car market....... another body blow for the prophets of doom :

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1237095/brexit-latest-news-nissan-uk-eu-trade-brussels-north-east-simon-clarke-richard-holden

 

Did you even bother to read the article? The whole thing is based on a "source" which Nissan completely denies.

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The Japanese car manufacturer may invest further into Britain in the event of a hard Brexit.

Nissan has drawn up plans to pull out of mainland Europe should a deal between the UK and EU lead to tariffs on car exports.The company believes it can account for a fifth of the entire car market in the UK.

Sources told the Financial Times Nissan would close its Barcelona van facility and stop manufacturing in France.

Part of the plans would be for Nissan to use its Sunderland plant to help it usurp competitors which would have to import to Britain, such as Ford and Volkswagen.

Sources claimed Nissan can dramatically increase its current 4pc market share in the scenario.

Nissan denied the existence of the contingency plan.

A spokesperson said: “We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs.

“We continue to urge the UK and EU negotiators to work collaboratively towards and orderly balanced Brexit that will continue to encourage mutually beneficial trade.”

[Mr Apples 1,320]

Perhaps they'll reintroduce a special edition Datsun Cherry to celebrate the 'good old days'. 😂

Apples

[Jools 584]

9 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Did you even bother to read the article? The whole thing is based on a "source" which Nissan completely denies.

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The Japanese car manufacturer may invest further into Britain in the event of a hard Brexit.

Nissan has drawn up plans to pull out of mainland Europe should a deal between the UK and EU lead to tariffs on car exports.The company believes it can account for a fifth of the entire car market in the UK.

Sources told the Financial Times Nissan would close its Barcelona van facility and stop manufacturing in France.

Part of the plans would be for Nissan to use its Sunderland plant to help it usurp competitors which would have to import to Britain, such as Ford and Volkswagen.

Sources claimed Nissan can dramatically increase its current 4pc market share in the scenario.

Nissan denied the existence of the contingency plan.

A spokesperson said: “We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs.

“We continue to urge the UK and EU negotiators to work collaboratively towards and orderly balanced Brexit that will continue to encourage mutually beneficial trade.”

Nissan’s post-Brexit plan exposes the limits of Project Fear ~ By Ross Clark

 

Brexit voters are, of course, mostly fools who don’t know what is good for them – in contrast to all those Remain voters with their degrees and analytical skills. But none are so dim-witted as those in Sunderland who, like turkeys voting for Christmas, chose a course of action which will inevitably lead to them losing their jobs at the city’s Nissan plant.

Or maybe not. It turns out that Sunderland’s Nissan workers might not be quite so stupid after all. It’s been revealed that the company is looking at a scenario in which it would close its EU plants and transfer production to Sunderland instead, raising its UK output from 350,000 to 400,000 vehicles a year. The Micra, which is currently manufactured in a Renault plant in France, would move to Britain, while its van plant near Barcelona would be closed.

Nissan, quite reasonably, has been looking at what it would do in the event a trade deal fails. In common with other car manufacturers, the company currently relies on a complex supply chain which involves parts passing – tariff-free – backwards and forwards between Britain and the EU. It also exports a lot of its finished vehicles across borders. Such a business model faces disruption in the event of a failed trade deal – an outcome which, of course, neither the UK nor the EU wants.

Arch-Remainers were not wrong to pick up on this as a potential cost of Brexit. But their error has been to assume that a hard Brexit would involve production draining away from Britain and towards the EU. What they ignore is that Britain is not just a producer of cars, it is a very large market for them, too. Indeed, German car-makers have called Britain ‘Treasure Island’, as it is a particularly profitable market.

So what do you do if you currently make cars in Britain, some of which are sold here and some of which are sold in the EU? Do you shift production to the EU in order to avoid the tariffs you might have to pay on exports there? Or do you keep production in Britain, to avoid tariffs which would become payable on cars sold here? The advantage of doing the latter, as Nissan has twigged, is that the prices of many cars currently imported to Britain will rise if a trade deal fails. Cars made in Britain will therefore have a competitive advantage. Under Nissan’s scenario it would increase its share of the UK market from a current four per cent to as much as 20 per cent.

For the moment, this is only a scenario, and one which Nissan officially denies – although to judge by the confidence with which the Financial Times reports the story this morning it has come from deep inside the company. But it is a reminder that the boot is not on the EU’s foot when it comes to trade negotiations, however much Michel Barnier might like to assert it is. In common with Britain, the EU has much to lose from a failed trade deal, not least because it has a large surplus in trade in goods with Britain. That is why our own government is right to ramp up the rhetoric in trade negotiations and assert that no deal is a serious possibility.

[Herman 9,756]

Oh FFS!!! 

[paul moy 235]

44 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

They would also pull out of the UK if there were WTO tariffs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-02/nissan-s-brexit-scenarios-include-closing-european-plants-ft

The automaker denied the existence of the contingency plans, according to a spokesman for Nissan Europe quoted by the Financial Times. “We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the U.K. and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs,” he said.

That's not logical.    If there were WTO tariffs with the massive market here it makes sense to keep production here to avoid OUR tariffs. Even Germany sells more cars to us than any other country in the EU so tariffs on german cars would make Nissan ultra-competitive in the UK.

... and of course Nissan would not pay tariffs into the EU from the UK because there is a free trade deal between Japan and the EU.

Edited February 3, 2020 by paul moy

[Mr Apples 1,320]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Oh FFS!!! 

Well, at least the first sentence was correct. 😂

Apples

[Icecream Snow 761]

And Jools follows up with an article which says

"For the moment, this is only a scenario, and one which Nissan officially denies "

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

This is all BS.

Was thinking of selling some USD last week-  thought better of it. Seems like the city thinks we're heading back towards no deal too.

Pound down 1.5c so far. Saved a small fortune. Thanks mugs!

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

6 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

And Jools follows up with an article which says

"For the moment, this is only a scenario, and one which Nissan officially denies "

I would candidly suggest that Nissan also modelled shutting Sunderland and then seeing what they'd do in Europe. As the fuller article suggest the 'van' factory is in doubt anyway. Nothing to see here. 

If you want Sunderland to survive get a good deal. Else most likely it's slow hand-cap and from me little sympathy. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[TCCANARY 263]

21 minutes ago, paul moy said:

That's not logical.    If there were WTO tariffs with the massive market here it makes sense to keep production here to avoid OUR tariffs. Even Germany sells more cars to us than any other country in the EU so tariffs on german cars would make Nissan ultra-competitive in the UK.

... and of course Nissan would not pay tariffs into the EU from the UK because there is a free trade deal between Japan and the EU.

The parts that are imported to make the cars will be subject to tariffs.

"and of course Nissan would not pay tariffs into the EU from the UK because there is a free trade deal between Japan and the EU."

Are you saying that the FTA between countries also applies to goods manufactured in a third country that's not part of the FTA?

 

 

[paul moy 235]

2 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

The parts that are imported to make the cars will be subject to tariffs.

"and of course Nissan would not pay tariffs into the EU from the UK because there is a free trade deal between Japan and the EU."

Are you saying that the FTA between countries also applies to goods manufactured in a third country that's not part of the FTA?

 

 

This could be the case but I've not seen the FTA detail to confirm that. 

[TCCANARY 263]

19 minutes ago, paul moy said:

This could be the case but I've not seen the FTA detail to confirm that. 

So it's just something you made up?

 

[BigFish 1,986]

2 hours ago, paul moy said:

Why do you keep backing the EU against your own government and people ?  I just don't understand why any patriot would do that.

@paul moy, I really don't understand that "my country right or wrong" mindset and I am objectively trying to make sense of the situation.

From what I see the EU is being clear and methodical, while the UK government & most of the media still playing to the internal audience that elected them with a lot of empty bluster. The EU is not the enemy, and neither are Leave voters. Ignorance is the enemy.

The EU is offering double zero, quotas and tariffs. You must agree that is a good offer. Johnson is promising no retreat on food standards, employment rights and the environmental controls. All that is missing is the control mechanisms. As long as no one is stupid a deal is there to be made.

[SwindonCanary 455]

2 hours ago, wooster said:

Either way I'm not sure there is much future in many car manufacturing jobs as we move from the internal combustion engine (ICE) to all-electric cars.

 

"UBS reported that 58 percent of all German automotive manufacturing employment is dependent on ICE production."

Are you aware that even at their inflated price, every eclectic car is making a loss !

https://www.schroders.com/en/insights/economics/will-electric-cars-create-shocking-losses-or-supercharge-profits/

Edited February 3, 2020 by SwindonCanary
ADDED LINK

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

Just now, SwindonCanary said:

Are you aware that even at their inflated price, every eclectic car is making a loss !

So did the mk1 mini.

[BigFish 1,986]

2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Are you aware that even at their inflated price, every eclectic car is making a loss !

Hey Swindo, as our motoring correspondant you have been curiously quiet about BMW postponing the next generation Mini because of "that thing that happened that Conservatives cannot mention".??

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Hey Swindo, as our motoring correspondant you have been curiously quiet about BMW postponing the next generation Mini because of "that thing that happened that Conservatives cannot mention".??

I now don't reply to anyone who can't spell Swindon (except this time)

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

50 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

So it's just something you made up?

 

As  ever TC - the so called Leavers such as PM deal in wish lists, unicorns, make believe, half or downright untruths. It makes them feel better. They are desperate to subconsciously find or more like grasp (like a drowning man) at the slightest straw to bolster their failing 20th century world view. They have and will always blame others. If it isn't the EU it will be the 'elite' or 'lefties' - the young etc. It will never ever be their own foolishness. Introspection is beyond them.

Those that originally voted Remain largely deal in proven known facts, weigh up the risks in any course of action. We make the best of the situation we find ourselves in. I very much doubt many 'Remainers' are strong Europhiles but we see the benefits as outweighing the negatives - especially when nobody seems to be able quantify the positives of leaving beyond flag waving (and assuming we ignore the complete myths).

It interesting to note that so called Remainers tend to be far more worried about misquoting facts and try to see or at least investigate both sides of any argument.

It's Head vs Heart as ever.  

Edited February 3, 2020 by Yellow Fever
Just for Jools - old £ has dropped nearly 2c now. A huge (not) vote of confidence.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

18 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Are you aware that even at their inflated price, every eclectic car is making a loss !

https://www.schroders.com/en/insights/economics/will-electric-cars-create-shocking-losses-or-supercharge-profits/

This link suggests differently

[SwindonCanary 455]

What we saw today was Boris Johnson trying to set the tone for these crucial negotiations.

He wants to go into them on the front foot, with a much more direct, assertive, even aggressive if you like, approach than that of Theresa May.

And his message was a pretty blunt one; we are not accepting EU rules, we are not accepting the jurisdiction of the European courts, we are pursuing trade deals with other countries, and on fishing - crucial to many EU costal countries - British waters will be first and foremost for British boats.

👍

[SwindonCanary 455]

6 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

This link suggests differently

This is what Dyson said when pulling his eclectic car project 

Just look at the losses TESLA are making

Edited February 3, 2020 by SwindonCanary

[paul moy 235]

34 minutes ago, BigFish said:

@paul moy, I really don't understand that "my country right or wrong" mindset and I am objectively trying to make sense of the situation.

From what I see the EU is being clear and methodical, while the UK government & most of the media still playing to the internal audience that elected them with a lot of empty bluster. The EU is not the enemy, and neither are Leave voters. Ignorance is the enemy.

The EU is offering double zero, quotas and tariffs. You must agree that is a good offer. Johnson is promising no retreat on food standards, employment rights and the environmental controls. All that is missing is the control mechanisms. As long as no one is stupid a deal is there to be made.

Listen to Boris's free trade speech today.  This is not bluster but lays out clearly how we are superior in many ways to the EU on rules and regs and a clear vision for the future of the UK as a free trade nation.   

Back Britain !!!!

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by paul moy

[SwindonCanary 455]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/03/the-remainer-elites-are-the-true-bigots-of-brexit-britain/

[BigFish 1,986]

4 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Listen to Boris's free trade speech today.  This is not bluster but lays out clearly how we are superior in many ways to the EU on rules and regs and a clear vision for the future of the UK as a free trade nation.   

Back Britain !!!!

 

@paul moy, what Johnson says and what Johnson does is not always the same (shocking I know). The question is less around what he says, rather than why he says it and for whom. This is not for the EU, this is to shore up you and your fellow travellers. The EU know this and will ignore him until 3 March. The bottom line is that there will be a level playing field or there will be tariffs and quotas-this might be sector by sector, but within each sector it will hold. 

[BigFish 1,986]

30 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I now don't reply to anyone who can't spell Swindon (except this time)

I can spell Swindon, just choosing not to Swindo

[Jools 584]

11 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Listen to Boris's free trade speech today.  This is not bluster but lays out clearly how we are superior in many ways to the EU on rules and regs and a clear vision for the future of the UK as a free trade nation.   

Back Britain !!!!

 

Boris, very politely telling the EU and the Lefty doomsayers to get stuffed 😀👍

[TCCANARY 263]

6 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/02/03/the-remainer-elites-are-the-true-bigots-of-brexit-britain/

It's a puff piece by Brendan O'Neill, don't waste your time reading it.

 

[paul moy 235]

2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

@paul moy, what Johnson says and what Johnson does is not always the same (shocking I know). The question is less around what he says, rather than why he says it and for whom. This is not for the EU, this is to shore up you and your fellow travellers. The EU know this and will ignore him until 3 March. The bottom line is that there will be a level playing field or there will be tariffs and quotas-this might be sector by sector, but within each sector it will hold. 

He has a clear vision and that includes not being aligned or tied to EU regs as an independent trading nation. The EU have to take this on board or we go to WTO.  A free trade deal is a reciprocal arrangement between equals and if the EU does not treat us as an equal then so be it, there will be no free trade deal.  Boris is clear on this and as a sovereign nation again that is what we deserve. Respect has to be two ways or it is WTO. 

[BigFish 1,986]

3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

He has a clear vision and that includes not being aligned or tied to EU regs as an independent trading nation. The EU have to take this on board or we go to WTO.  A free trade deal is a reciprocal arrangement between equals and if the EU does not treat us as an equal then so be it, there will be no free trade deal.  Boris is clear on this and as a sovereign nation again that is what we deserve. Respect has to be two ways or it is WTO. 

Is this the WTO that is currently not-functioning?

Is this the same PM who gave NI to the EU when the going got tough?

Do try to keep up with the slippery wordsmithery, it is no longer WTO anyway they now call it the "Australia Deal".