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The Positive Brexit Thread

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8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes Boris is all of that -  and with almost any other Labour leader - same policies except Corbyn  - Labour would win by a country mile.

It's doubts about Corbyn when it comes to defence - taking morally difficult but decisive decisions. His blame anybody else other than Russia over Skripal at first until he was dragged reluctantly to the same conclusion. It's an anti-West bias (a leftover from the 1970s). Even today we have him skewered on NATO  - can't 'just say it's been an excellent alliance. That's why he's hopeless. 

 

Can't disagree with any of that. I don't think he's a bad or dishonest bloke but his lack of leadership, his focusing on unpopular or non-important topics and his lack of charisma do not endear him to the general public. It's a shame because his lack of popularity could land us with people far, far, far worse. (And that isn't over egging it.)

Will still lend them my vote as I don't have a choice really.

 

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17 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

Will still lend them my vote as I don't have a choice really.

 

You do

But you prefer the Jew bothering Marxist to the fat lying buffoon.😀

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32 minutes ago, Herman said:

Can't disagree with any of that. I don't think he's a bad or dishonest bloke but his lack of leadership, his focusing on unpopular or non-important topics and his lack of charisma do not endear him to the general public. It's a shame because his lack of popularity could land us with people far, far, far worse. (And that isn't over egging it.)

Will still lend them my vote as I don't have a choice really.

 

Agreed. That's why I get angry about the smear tactics used on him by lesser folk.  He is honest - too honest - hence he can never answer a simple yes or no with the clarity required  - and hence has never learnt the art of being a politician or making difficult decisions & finds excuses for 'bad' peoples behaviour. He's just an idealistic protestor. Always has been and sadly I suspect always will be . A missed opportunity. 

Contrast with Blair (yes I know the Momentum lot can't stand Blair) but he did WIN three consecutive elections and implemented quite a lot of Labour policy at the time. Sure it went wrong in Iraq but it went right in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. 9/11 & Afghanistan was an issue nobody could dodge.

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26 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You do

But you prefer the Jew bothering Marxist to the fat lying buffoon.😀

I don't. Having seen what the tories have inflicted on this country, and what they are planning, there is no way my conscience would let me vote for them. As much of a scumbag Johnson is, there are far worse people behind him.

Edited by Herman

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24 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You do

But you prefer the Jew bothering Marxist to the fat lying buffoon.😀

That comment is I think well beneath you Ricardo. I know you're a lot better than that. 

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Flogging away at the "NHS for sale" is not a good strategy imo, if the evidence was there and the Tories were obviously persuing that agenda then great, but as it is they are flogging a horse that died some time ago. Waste of time.

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20 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Flogging away at the "NHS for sale" is not a good strategy imo, if the evidence was there and the Tories were obviously persuing that agenda then great, but as it is they are flogging a horse that died some time ago. Waste of time.

Aye, apart from the 450 page government document, conservative free-marketeer ideology, books written by MPs and a president's words there is no evidence the conservatives want to flog off the NHS or give full access to the pharma side of it.

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28 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

That comment is I think well beneath you Ricardo. I know you're a lot better than that. 

Yes, I shouldn't have called him fat.

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Yes its not "flogging off the NHS" you should worry about. It's letting Pharma prices rip, adding on "top up" private insurance policies and the like. As someone who has livd in the US for several years, the medical system here is an absolute disgrace, and the NHS should be protected as a single payer service, not broken up into public (poorhouse) plus private (penthouse) fiefdoms. 

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8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Yes its not "flogging off the NHS" you should worry about. It's letting Pharma prices rip, adding on "top up" private insurance policies and the like. As someone who has livd in the US for several years, the medical system here is an absolute disgrace, and the NHS should be protected as a single payer service, not broken up into public (poorhouse) plus private (penthouse) fiefdoms. 

Yes it is, but what's your point?

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11 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Yes, I shouldn't have called him fat.

Yes, morbidly obese would do. Stick with the facts.

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

Aye, apart from the 450 page government document, conservative free-marketeer ideology, books written by MPs and a president's words there is no evidence the conservatives want to flog off the NHS or give full access to the pharma side of it.

I thought you were the one that wished people thought for themselves Herman.The sound of barrels being scraped is deafening.There are many other policy areas where Labour could successfully go after the Tories, there is not enough evidence on this one and people are seeing through it. If Trumpy had let something slip then it could be so different, but atm he is keeping his self discipline. Might not last though!

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You've been consistently wrong for three odd years. I suppose it's too late for you to change tack?!

 

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27 minutes ago, Herman said:

Aye, apart from the 450 page government document, conservative free-marketeer ideology, books written by MPs and a president's words there is no evidence the conservatives want to flog off the NHS or give full access to the pharma side of it.

Nothing in the document is evidence of Labour's claim and the last ten years suggests a conservative administration is in no hurry to enhance the level private interests in the NHS. 

You may or may not) have a point on the other sources though. Do you have them as it is probably as important to know a politician's general attitude as to read a manifesto?

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23 minutes ago, Herman said:

You've been consistently wrong for three odd years. I suppose it's too late for you to change tack?!

 

And you believe him!!! 

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15 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Nothing in the document is evidence of Labour's claim and the last ten years suggests a conservative administration is in no hurry to enhance the level private interests in the NHS. 

You may or may not) have a point on the other sources though. Do you have them as it is probably as important to know a politician's general attitude as to read a manifesto?

I think around 7.5% of NHS services are outsourced and most of that was set up under a Labour Government. They really are flogging a dead horse, but long may it continue!

Edited by Van wink

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11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I think around 7.5% of NHS services are outsourced and most of that was set up under a Labour Government. They really are flogging a dead horse, but long may it continue!

They don't want to hear it VW. Corbynism is like a religion. They know they are right therefore the deniers must be wrong.

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44 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I thought you were the one that wished people thought for themselves Herman.The sound of barrels being scraped is deafening.There are many other policy areas where Labour could successfully go after the Tories, there is not enough evidence on this one and people are seeing through it. If Trumpy had let something slip then it could be so different, but atm he is keeping his self discipline. Might not last though!

Neither the Tories (assuming they win the election) nor even Trump (or whoever is the president) will decide what is in any future US/UK trade deal. The most important voice will be that of the US Congress channelling the varied demands of the individual Senators and Representatives and all the lobbyists and special interest groups that will be pressing their cases.

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

They don't want to hear it VW. Corbynism is like a religion. They know they are right therefore the deniers must be wrong.

Sounds exactly like the fact free Leavers to me. No the NHS is not for sale but the USA clearly wants a more market driven access to sell drugs at better more normal pricing. Same as agriculture. That's what a US trade deal is about from the US perspective.

You dont have to believe in Corbyn for this to still be true.

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3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Sounds exactly like the fact free Leavers to me. No the NHS is not for sale but the USA clearly wants a more market driven access to sell drugs at better more normal pricing. Same as agriculture. That's what a US trade deal is about from the US perspective.

You dont have to believe in Corbyn for this to still be true.

I'm sure they do but we already have a favourable trade balance with them even without a deal.

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17 minutes ago, ricardo said:

They don't want to hear it VW. Corbynism is like a religion. They know they are right therefore the deniers must be wrong.

Do you bother to read what anybody says. There are no Corbynistas on here. We all see his major failings but compared to the ****e you are cheering for he is the best chance we have, at least of keeping them out. Thanks for the bloody choice.

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35 minutes ago, Van wink said:

And you believe him!!! 

For once. Considering it was off script and one of his classic brainfarts I think it is closer to the truth than what his masters wanted us to hear.

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

Do you bother to read what anybody says. There are no Corbynistas on here. We all see his major failings but compared to the ****e you are cheering for he is the best chance we have, at least of keeping them out. Thanks for the bloody choice.

The you are a Corbynista by default Herman. If you believe in the Marxist then fair enough, that is anybodies free choice, but I don't think you do. We all know the giveaways are pie in the sky but there are always some who are susceptible to bribes.

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

The you are a Corbynista by default Herman. If you believe in the Marxist then fair enough, that is anybodies free choice, but I don't think you do. We all know the giveaways are pie in the sky but there are always some who are susceptible to bribes.

Hermy wants to vote for a hung Parliament, in the same way as I voted for a soft Brexit😉

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52 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Nothing in the document is evidence of Labour's claim and the last ten years suggests a conservative administration is in no hurry to enhance the level private interests in the NHS. 

You may or may not) have a point on the other sources though. Do you have them as it is probably as important to know a politician's general attitude as to read a manifesto?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained

https://www.amazon.co.uk/After-Coalition-Kwasi-Kwarteng/dp/1849541582

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2011/09/27/5-tory-mps-write-a-book/

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21 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Hermy wants to vote for a hung Parliament, in the same way as I voted for a soft Brexit😉

if he thinks its going to happen he can still get 9-4.

If he had taken my advice three weeks ago and sold LIB dem seats on the spread betting Index at 45 he would have had a very happy Xmas. No value now at 18.

Edited by ricardo

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6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The you are a Corbynista by default Herman. If you believe in the Marxist then fair enough, that is anybodies free choice, but I don't think you do. We all know the giveaways are pie in the sky but there are always some who are susceptible to bribes.

That makes no sense whatsoever. I'm voting Labour because I have no choice. LibDems is my first preference but they would need an enormous swing to get anywhere.

Party Candidate Votes % ±
  Conservative Grant Shapps 26,374 51.0 +0.7
  Labour Anawar Miah 19,005 36.8 +10.6
  Liberal Democrats Nigel Quinton 3,836 7.4 +1.2
  UKIP Dean Milliken 1,441 2.8 -10.3
  Green Christianne Sayers 835 1.6 -1.9
  Independent Melvyn Jones 178 0.3 N/A
Majority 7,369 14.2 -10.0
Turnout 51,669 71.0 +2.5
  Conservative hold Swing −5.0  

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Hermy wants to vote for a hung Parliament, in the same way as I voted for a soft Brexit😉

Have you actually made your mind up what you wanted? Soft Brexit, hard Brexit, May's Brexit, Johnson's Brexit? You've changed like the wind over the years.

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Just now, Herman said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. I'm voting Labour because I have no choice. LibDems is my first preference but they would need an enormous swing to get anywhere.

Party Candidate Votes % ±
  Conservative Grant Shapps 26,374 51.0 +0.7
  Labour Anawar Miah 19,005 36.8 +10.6
  Liberal Democrats Nigel Quinton 3,836 7.4 +1.2
  UKIP Dean Milliken 1,441 2.8 -10.3
  Green Christianne Sayers 835 1.6 -1.9
  Independent Melvyn Jones 178 0.3 N/A
Majority 7,369 14.2 -10.0
Turnout 51,669 71.0 +2.5
  Conservative hold Swing −5.0  

Same in my constituency Herman, Clive Lewis has enough fans here to get a comfortable five figure majority. I don't know how many will vote **** and balls but I shall be one of them.😀

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