The Positive Brexit Thread

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Lies have unfortunately become the currency of political debate on all sides.

Indeed 👍🏻

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

The Guardian has a long piece on Norwich and the election today:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/28/when-did-we-become-this-cruel-poverty-looms-large-for-norwich-voters

There is a comment towards the end, which is relevant to the question of Labour and anti-semitism:

One voter, who requests anonymity but who defines himself as a socialist, says he cannot support Corbyn’s Labour, even in this marginal. “Why should any leftwing Jewish voter feel obliged to elect as prime minister a man we know is an antisemite? This issue is so toxic for me. Antisemitism worsened in 2014 with the Gaza war and when Corbyn came in, it calcified. I’ve lost friendships over it. Leftwing friends have shared antisemitic material online and when you challenge them, it’s been horrible.”

Firstly, of course, there is no evidence Corbyn is at all anti-semitic (or that Labour is institutionally anti-semitic, as it sometimes claimed). But the interesting comment is that this voter (the implication is that he is Jewish although that is not totally clear) found what he describes as anti-semitism increasing because of the 2014 Gaza war.

Not sure war is quite the right word. In it at least 2104 Palestinians were killed (for obvious reasons it is not always easy to be precise abou their death toll), about 1,400 of whom were civilians, with more than 11,000 injured, and 72 Israelis killed, 66 of whom were military. That 30:1 kill ratio is not that unusual, as these conflicts tend to go.

Was what this voter then got bombarded from friends with anti-semitic, ie attacks on Jews and the Jewish people simply for being such, or condemnation of Israel? (the UN criticised both sides but the casualty figures give an indication of how asymmetrical the conflict was). I don't know, but the general point is that much of what gets demonised as anti-semitic is actually justified criticism of Israel, and often of what are its increasingly repressive policies towards the Palestinians.

[Jools 584]

37 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Guardian has a long piece on Norwich and the election today:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/28/when-did-we-become-this-cruel-poverty-looms-large-for-norwich-voters

There is a comment towards the end, which is relevant to the question of Labour and anti-semitism:

One voter, who requests anonymity but who defines himself as a socialist, says he cannot support Corbyn’s Labour, even in this marginal. “Why should any leftwing Jewish voter feel obliged to elect as prime minister a man we know is an antisemite? This issue is so toxic for me. Antisemitism worsened in 2014 with the Gaza war and when Corbyn came in, it calcified. I’ve lost friendships over it. Leftwing friends have shared antisemitic material online and when you challenge them, it’s been horrible.”

Firstly, of course, there is no evidence Corbyn is at all anti-semitic (or that Labour is institutionally anti-semitic, as it sometimes claimed). But the interesting comment is that this voter (the implication is that he is Jewish although that is not totally clear) found what he describes as anti-semitism increasing because of the 2014 Gaza war.

Not sure war is quite the right word. In it at least 2104 Palestinians were killed (for obvious reasons it is not always easy to be precise abou their death toll), about 1,400 of whom were civilians, with more than 11,000 injured, and 72 Israelis killed, 66 of whom were military. That 30:1 kill ratio is not that unusual, as these conflicts tend to go.

Was what this voter then got bombarded from friends with anti-semitic, ie attacks on Jews and the Jewish people simply for being such, or condemnation of Israel? (the UN criticised both sides but the casualty figures give an indication of how asymmetrical the conflict was). I don't know, but the general point is that much of what gets demonised as anti-semitic is actually justified criticism of Israel, and often of what are its increasingly repressive policies towards the Palestinians.

 

Allow me to cut to the chase, Purple:

Jewish UK population - 280,000 and decreasing - 200,000 eligible voters?

Muslim UK population - 4,000,000 and increasing - 2,000,000+ eligible voters

Muslim's favourite UK political Party and the one most likely to vote for - Labour  🙃

[Jools 584]

2 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Did Labour write their lies on the side of a bus?

J 🤡🤡ls 

As well as tearing apart “private prosecutor” Marcus J. Ball for his comical attempt to bring a lawsuit against Boris over the £350 million a week figure, the High Court judgment also had something very interesting to say about the £350 million figure itself. Remain leaning legal commentators have ignored this bit of the Judge’s ruling:

“The alleged offence set out in the Application for Summons is that the Claimant “repeatedly made and endorsed false and misleading statements concerning the cost of the United Kingdom’s membership of the European Union”. It appears that if the Claimant had said/endorsed a figure of £350m per week gross, or £250m per week net, there would have been no complaint.”

As Remain and Leave campaigners well know, Boris repeatedly did make it clear during the referendum that £350 million a week was the gross figure. Here he is on GMB in June 2016 explaining in detail over several minutes how £350 million a week/£20 billion a year is the gross figure while £10.5 billion a year is the net figure, he’s also explicit about the distinction on Marr and in numerous other speeches including the big BBC debate just before the referendum. Boris did exactly what the judges said he should have done for there to be no complaint. Case closed 😎

 

 

                                                      😀 👇 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Jools
Hans Hoola Loop -- sfb

[Surfer 1,547]

Or let me cut to the chase - there is right and there is wrong and Labour tries to be on the right side of issues. This gets some people upset, especially this Isreali government and powerful US Evangelical mega-churches who want to advance the End Times. 

The current Isreali government is a right wing  nationalistic authoritarian entity that deserves much but not all of the criticism that it gets, just as Trump and Orban and Putin deserve criticism they get. It isn’t anti-semitism to resist Isreal’s actions against the local Arabs; just because they claim to be the chosen people does not excuse their government’s actions. Retaliation against those actions isn’t helping either but the violence will not stop until there is a will to stop it, and the current Israeli government does not seem to want to, preferring to be the “victim” of circumstances that justifies oppression. 

We have seen that play before, it is standard operating practice for wannabe dictators. 

[Herman 9,717]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Lies have unfortunately become the currency of political debate on all sides.

 

[kick it off 1,948]

How do people keep supporting Boris?

He's scared to debate the other leaders on the environment.

He's scared to let Andrew Neil interview him.

He's a pathetic shill who is not prepared to be scrutinised in any meaningful way as he gets embarassed every time he does because he's a pathological liar and a shyster.... yet still some people are too thick to see through his transparent shell.

[Jools 584]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Or let me cut to the chase - there is right and there is wrong and Labour tries to be on the right side of issues. This gets some people upset, especially this Isreali government and powerful US Evangelical mega-churches who want to advance the End Times. 

The current Isreali government is a right wing  nationalistic authoritarian entity that deserves much but not all of the criticism that it gets, just as Trump and Orban and Putin deserve criticism they get. It isn’t anti-semitism to resist Isreal’s actions against the local Arabs; just because they claim to be the chosen people does not excuse their government’s actions. Retaliation against those actions isn’t helping either but the violence will not stop until there is a will to stop it, and the current Israeli government does not seem to want to, preferring to be the “victim” of circumstances that justifies oppression. 

We have seen that play before, it is standard operating practice for wannabe dictators. 

Or even better, how about you cut the cr@p, drop the Reductio ad Hitlerum and realise that the Labour Party have too many members who have proven to be anti-semitic and the ones that aren't have done naff all about it -- If it were any other Party, especially the Conservatives, ffs, it would be rightly condemned and treated as a national scandal --- Unfit for office doesn't begin to describe the majority of Labour MPs.

Only today that vile creature, Len McCluskey, said the following:

“The reality is this. Everybody should be concerned and sorry about the type of hurt that has been caused by the Jewish community.”

Really? Do you seriously condone that? Yes, I reckon you do... 🤪

Oh, well... At least Red Len and sfb people like you are helpfully keeping Labour's antisemitism at the forefront which can only damage them further.

[Jools 584]

39 minutes ago, kick it off said:

How do people keep supporting Boris?

He's scared to debate the other leaders on the environment.

He's scared to let Andrew Neil interview him.

He's a pathetic shill who is not prepared to be scrutinised in any meaningful way as he gets embarassed every time he does because he's a pathological liar and a shyster.... yet still some people are too thick to see through his transparent shell.

Grow up, KiO.

[Jools 584]

There is a rumour going round that Channel 4 has commissioned an ice sculpture of Boris Johnson to melt in his absence during tonight’s televised debate on the “climate change emergency”. Channel 4 are getting very indignant that the PM is not going to do their show. Why this should be a surprise when the channel’s news and current affairs boss calls him a liar, the channel’s senior anchorman shouts “f**k the Tories” in public and the news show selects subjects that suit its left-wing agenda. Hardly a surprise when half the presenters are virtually left-wing campaigners…

The single-subject debate is in itself contentious. Would Channel 4 hold a debate on the “knife crime emergency” or the “rising taxes crisis”? It is not a neutral subject to choose. The key issue in this election is the Brexit deadlock, not carbon dioxide.

That the Tories are taking a hard line against Channel 4 should not surprise anyone. It makes no sense to feed the trolls…

November 28, 2019 at 3:11 pm

[Herman 9,717]

7 hours ago, kick it off said:

How do people keep supporting Boris?

He's scared to debate the other leaders on the environment.

He's scared to let Andrew Neil interview him.

He's a pathetic shill who is not prepared to be scrutinised in any meaningful way as he gets embarassed every time he does because he's a pathological liar and a shyster.... yet still some people are too thick to see through his transparent shell.

Some are terribly thick. Some are pretending that he's good. Some just dislike Corbyn even more. While some like being lied to I assume as it is obvious now. 

[Herman 9,717]

Just to add, Johnson sent his father to a leader's debate. Coward. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

I was in the Question Time audience last night as it was in Swindon. Fiona Bruce rehearsed the pre-recorded introduction and chatted to the audience, and those picked to ask questions were mic'd up. One section of the audience were told they had to keep quiet and not ask any questions and another section told they were allowed to clap. All the questions have to be submitted in advance and the program is broadcast with a delay,(it was started at 8pm.) So that any editing required can be made in case the wrong question gets asked. We all had to fill in a questionnaire before hand.  

[Van wink 2,994]

7 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I was in the Question Time audience last night as it was in Swindon. Fiona Bruce rehearsed the pre-recorded introduction and chatted to the audience, and those picked to ask questions were mic'd up. One section of the audience were told they had to keep quiet and not ask any questions and another section told they were allowed to clap. All the questions have to be submitted in advance and the program is broadcast with a delay,(it was started at 8pm.) So that any editing required can be made in case the wrong question gets asked. We all had to fill in a questionnaire before hand.  

What did they ask in the questionnaire?

[BigFish 1,986]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

What did they ask in the questionnaire?

They tend to ask enough questions balance the audience. I suspect @SwindonCanary answered enough to fufill the requirement for the slightly dim, failed motor industry expert, doesn't like foreign kids but likes Cornish caught fish quota.😋

[SwindonCanary 455]

They asked  how I was going to vote and how I voted last time, also my thoughts on subjects like Royalty and climate.

They decided I could clap as I wished, but keep my mouth shut !

Edited November 29, 2019 by SwindonCanary

[Herman 9,717]

Swindon the performing seal. 🤣

[Mr Apples 1,317]

Perhaps they should have used this question within the questionnaire, from the Daily Mash. 🤔🤣

What sort of 'Get Brexit done' b*llend are you?

DOES the idea of just 'getting Brexit done’ make total sense to you? Read our guide to what sort of idiot you might be.  

Moron who thinks everything is simple

We just need to knuckle down to Brexit and it’ll get done, like a big pile of washing up, right? You probably also think being a barrister is just knowing fancy words and making a film is just pointing a camera at things.

Furious Wetherspoons type

After three years of ranting about Brexit you’re in too deep and cannot lose face, like a Scientologist who’s just found out from Wikipedia that L Ron Hubbard made it all up.

Boris Johnson and his cronies

You don’t really believe Brexit is any good, and you may well lose interest in the whole thing after 12 December 2019. Until then you’ll happily claim that Britannia unchained will unleash the potential of our nation of heroic lions and other blather.

Gran who thinks it's all 'daft'

Many grans still resolutely refuse to find out anything about Brexit and go to their default setting, “They should just blimmin’ sort it out.” This is not adding a whole lot to the debate, grans.

Loony with other nutty beliefs

People with mad beliefs like Flat Earthers are ALWAYS into Brexit. Strangely this makes sense, because ignoring the complexities of leaving the EU is nothing compared to believing Mossad did 9/11 or your spiritualist church is in contact with spirits who strangely never just describe the afterlife clearly.

'It'll never happen to me' pillock

A worrying number of voters are aware of the risks of Brexit but think only other people will lose their jobs. This puts you firmly in the category of the 80-a-day smoker who confidently says, "A lot of people don't get cancer."

[SHRIMPER 328]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

They decided I could clap as I wished, but keep my mouth shut !

This is the reason the cameras did not linger too long on the audience.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

They asked  how I was going to vote and how I voted last time, also my thoughts on subjects like Royalty and climate.

They decided I could clap as I wished, but keep my mouth shut !

Did they give you a crayon so that you could fill it in?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Jools is becoming so obsessed that he might need an ice statue to stand in for him.

Where do you get your facts from? Oh yes, an anti Labour, ****ed in the dorm, bunch of Lord Snooty's who lie through their teeth. No surprise they are taught to lie at an early age.

And last night's failure for Thatchead to turn up because he cannot win any debate when it is more than head to head because he has lied so many times in his ascent from journalist to PM that even a Cray computer couldn't remember them all.

Then this morning, he sends his pater to lie for him on the breakfast news. Why is it so important says Johnson Snr? Well so important that your son was prepared to sacrifice his life by lying down in front of a bulldozer.

I have to shake my head in despair. This election really has come down to Brexit only. So OK we accept that the Tories will probably be the leading party after a Brexit argument. But what about the argument by Farage, who couldn't attend the debate last night because he hasn't got any other policies, that Johnson's is not Brexit and is worse than Mays deal?

The policies of the party's are just deliberately being obscured by the nastiest, most devious Tory party individuals I have ever had the chance to despise.

 

[Mr Angry 1,545]

This country is truly f***ed if people are still prepared to vote for a pathological liar just because he says that he can “Get Brexit done”. Of course, that might be a lie too.

There hasn’t been such a poor choice between parties since I was eligible to vote (1981). Neither of the big 2 can be trusted.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

DMG, owners of the Daily MAil, have bought the i newspaper. Editorial independence assured?

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

Oh dear the Remoaners are well and truly triggered this morning. I think we'll have to call them the Tena Men.

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, Rock The Boat said:

Oh dear the Remoaners are well and truly triggered this morning. I think we'll have to call them the Tena Men.

Reported anyone lately because you've had your feelings hurt?

[Herman 9,717]

Incident at London Bridge. Is it Paul Moy starting his revolution? 

[canarydan23 4,060]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

Incident at London Bridge. Is it Paul Moy starting his revolution? 

Well, fingers crossed the initial reports are accurate and the only fatality is the perpetrator.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

2 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Reported anyone lately because you've had your feelings hurt?

Dunno - anybody missing?

[canarydan23 4,060]

33 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Dunno - anybody missing?

I wouldn't know; I don't pay enough attention on account of me not being a butthurt, spineless little coward who likes to try and mask their vast inadequacies and lack of masculinity by calling people on the internet snowflakes.

It's not our fault you were picked last in PE, RTB. Nor was it the fault of the EU, immigrants, the unemployed, Labour, left-wing activists, people with sporting prowess, good-looking folk, those who get laid regularly, chaps and chapettes who lost their virginity before they were mid-30s or people of colour.

And you won't get any sense of satisfactory vengeance by acting the way you do on an internet forum.

[Hairy Canary 668]

Well somebody had to fill the vacuum I suppose.