Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, PurpleCanary said: If the DUP don't come on board then it will fail. If they agree then I imagine the vote would be very close; Too close to call. One factor that could swing the vote Johnson's way would be if the EU makes it plain that it is either this deal or a No-Deal. If there ever was a chance of the EU agreeing to another extension for more talks then the events of the last few days have definitely ended that. An extension now would only be for a general election. what ! ! ! even if the DUP backed it Berie would still be 40 votes behind and given how the ERG takes the same line as the DUP I cannot see them accepting NI as good as remaining in the EU Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,740 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Van wink said: Looks like Arlene will not only be wearig baggy draws for her next visit to Downing St but also taking a carrier bag. I think she'll see it as 30 pieces of Silver...so no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 17, 2019 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/revised_withdrawal_agreement_including_protocol_on_ireland_and_nothern_ireland.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: For those of you thinking otherwise my IQ is 125 =above average ! https://www.mensa.org.uk/workout TRY IT You missed a decimal point. By the way, I just clicked that link and it doesn't give you your IQ as a result, merely a % of correct answers (100%, thanks for asking). It looks like a data-mining operation, or at least a marketing tool; they make it incredibly easy and tell you you've scored well (you did get 100%, didn't you?!) so that the user thinks, "Wow, I'm actually really clever, maybe I should go for a proper, paid-for Mensa test. But you worked all that out for yourself, didn't you? Edited October 17, 2019 by canarydan23 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 So both sides have 'played out a draw' so as to claim that 'they tried' and at some point the numpties will have this explained to them though whether they have the ability to grasp what it means is another matter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, canarydan23 said: You missed a decimal point. By the way, I just clicked that link and it doesn't give you your IQ as a result, merely a % of correct answers (100%, thanks for asking). It looks like a data-mining operation, or at least a marketing tool; they make it incredibly easy and tell you you've scored well (you did get 100%, didn't you?!) so that the user thinks, "Wow, I'm actually really clever, maybe I should go for a proper, paid-for Mensa test. But you worked all that out for yourself, didn't you? you did not take the Mensa test, go for the full test (it costs £24.95 ) Edited October 17, 2019 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: I think she'll see it as 30 pieces of Silver...so no. Yeh Hypothetically,putting the election or a second referendum point to one side, I wonder what would happen if a member state decided to veto an extension leaving no deal, the deal or revoke as the ony three options left to parliament.How would they vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: you did not take the Mensa test, go for the full test (it costs) I did actually, back when I was in school, but as the rule of 3 applies to declared IQ results on the internet (divide the claimed IQ by three to get a more accurate result), I won't be divulging my score. So at least that's one of us who has actually done a Mensa test. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 17, 2019 I'm pleased we've come to an agreement, but we really need to see the deal in print. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Van wink said: Yeh Hypothetically,putting the election or a second referendum point to one side, I wonder what would happen if a member state decided to veto an extension leaving no deal, the deal or revoke as the ony three options left to parliament.How would they vote. I think the chances of someone vetoing have increased. After all, there is no more the EU can offer that would make a difference, and there is no guarantee an election would change the parliamentary arithmetic enough to make a very different kind of deal - the UK staying in a CU for example - feasible. If it came to it, between those three current options, a guess would be this deal. Between No-Deal and Revoke, Revoke. Edited October 17, 2019 by PurpleCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 17, 2019 Correct me if I'm wrong. So we have got rid of the back stop but part of Britain will remain in certain laws of EU. So we won't be leaving the EU on 31 October. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said: I think the chances of someone vetoing have increased. After all, there is no more the EU can offer that would make a difference, and there is no guarantee an election would change the parliamentary arithmetic enough to make a very different kind of deal - the UK staying in a CU for example - feasible. just as the chances of a piano falling on your head have if you turn on the radio and a piano is playing 😂 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,740 Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said: I think the chances of someone vetoing have increased. After all, there is no more the EU can offer that would make a difference, and there is no guarantee an election would change the parliamentary arithmetic enough to make a very different kind of deal - the UK staying in a CU for example - feasible. The EU want a deal for sure. Yes no endless extension but add in ref which will bring closure and no problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThorpeCanary 71 Posted October 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: I'm pleased we've come to an agreement, but we really need to see the deal in print. If I recall correctly SwindonCanary you were quite critical of Mays deal and were against the £39b heading to the EU Curious on your thoughts on this one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 17, 2019 So the DUP, normally likely to vote with the Tories, representing at best 850,000 people, even allowing those under 18 to be considered, may well be able to thwart Brexit whereas MP's, representing many millions, are pilloried and called Marxists, traitors, self centred and undemocratic. And please don't accuse Corbyn of being the same. He is in opposition and likely to do anything to make things uncomfortable for the Government. It is his job to do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ThorpeCanary said: If I recall correctly SwindonCanary you were quite critical of Mays deal and were against the £39b heading to the EU Curious on your thoughts on this one I was against the backstop from the start, I could see we would continue to pay money into the EU. Like I wrote we have to see the deal Unlike Corbyn who's said he's voting against it before even knowing what the deal is Edited October 17, 2019 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 17, 2019 Unlike Corbyn who's said he's voting against it before even knowing what the deal is Get real man. Opponent on the ropes and you start punching yourself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 ' So UK authorities will apply UK tariffs to countries coming from third countries as long as goods entering NI are not at risk of entering the single market. If they are at risk of entering the single market, EU tariffs will apply. " Of course EU tarrifs will apply the very idea that stuff could be smuggled across the border is ridiculous. who on earth would want to do that or even think of that I mean, it's not as if that has ever happened before 😆 a financial god send for nationalist paramilitaries and this what we know so far " Commitment to “single customs territory” has been scrapped, confirming the need for checks at the border. Plan is that goods will not attract tariffs (as part of free trade agreement) but only if they satisfy “rules of origin” checks. This will make some UK/EU trade more costly. " " Political Declaration is out. Much of it is unchanged but gone is commitment to “a trading relationship on goods that is as close as possible”. Instead a “free trade agreement”. This matters. Higher trade barriers = greater economic cost. ' Commitments around fishing access are unchanged. UK will be “independent coastal state” but commits to an agreement offering “access to waters and quotas”. At least 7 EU states fish in UK waters. EU unlikely to agree to a trade deal unless its happy with ongoing access. ' border checks, higher costs to UK and EU access to UK fishing - and the brexit thickos think it is a reat idea you have been sold down the river for the benefit of Johnson.......nothing less not so much stabbed in the back but a thrust straight at your heart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,711 Posted October 17, 2019 So a change of name, from May to Johnson, on the front page of this deal is all it is. Will people fall for it?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: The EU want a deal for sure. Yes no endless extension but add in ref which will bring closure and no problem. they've already got a deal, as has the UK pandering to a few nutcass might go with the job but that doesn't extend to ending that deal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted October 17, 2019 I said it on a different thread, but for Republicans this is a huge step towards achieving their objective of a unified Ireland. Gerry Adams' answer was quite telling when he was asked his opinion on a customs border in the Irish Sea, "We could live with that". It pushes Northern Ireland inexplicably closer to Ireland and further from Great Britain. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Herman said: So a change of name, from May to Johnson, on the front page of this deal is all it is. Will people fall for it?? actually it is far more than that, as what the cranks objecetd to has merely got worse a border, the UK still collecting tax for the EU, costly tarrifs, the UK having to collect tax for the EU EU still access for fishing and an a renewal of smuggling.... and almost wholesale surrender even Fartrage can see it is a con, sellout, betrayal of what they were told any wonder the bigots have now melted away after seeing what it really amounts to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted October 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: I was against the backstop from the start, I could see we would continue to pay money into the EU. Like I wrote we have to see the deal Unlike Corbyn who's said he's voting against it before even knowing what the deal is You support the Surrender Deal?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,740 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) I bet Arlene rues the day she ever went into coalition (confidence and supply) with the Tories. I see they've (the DUP) formally just said they will vote AGAINST the deal on Saturday. Desperate days for Boris and Brexit. The Letter awaits.... Edited October 17, 2019 by Yellow Fever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Molly Windley 76 Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Bill said: oh dear EU regulations will apply to all goods in Northern Ireland. This means checks at the border. NI will remain in the UK’s customs territory on VAT, the plan will maintain the integrity of the single market it's far worse than May's deals ! and the UK will maintain a border between the two Irelands and collect VAT to hand over to the EU Not quite - EU rules on Value Added Tax and excise duties will apply in Northern Ireland, with the UK responsible for their collection. However, revenues derived will be retained by the UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: I was against the backstop from the start, I could see we would continue to pay money into the EU. Like I wrote we have to see the deal Unlike Corbyn who's said he's voting against it before even knowing what the deal is liar, you supported May's deal nothing is being 'paid in' the UK is simply honouring it's legal commitments within minutes the VAT situation was made apparentit was going to be voted against so stop keep 'acting' like a thicko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiScot 1,436 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Don't see this deal being passed regardless of what it says tbh. The opposition have their knifes sharpe and have the chance to get power and further their own agendas. Hung parliment in action - Suspectible to legal challenges etc Edited October 17, 2019 by KiwiScot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Molly Windley said: Not quite - EU rules on Value Added Tax and excise duties will apply in Northern Ireland, with the UK responsible for their collection. However, revenues derived will be retained by the UK. I wondered who would be the first to spot that 😊 I stand corrected Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, KiwiScot said: Don't see this deal being passed regardless of what it says tbh. The opposition have their knifes sharpe and have the chance to get power and further their own agendas. Hung parliment in action - Suspectible to legal challenges etc not neccesarily simply down to a hung parliament as May's deals were rejected by government MPs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites